Genesis batteries - lets do some math

[Beemer533]

I’m in California where we consider “cold” below 60 degrees.

Lol..
I will add that during winter I pull the lifepo4 battery out and just put a jumper in its place, so anything that was running off it is running of the Genesis aux battery.

I don't really Camp in weather less than 32 degrees, so it's really just my bed lights and occasionally the fridge if I need it for some reason.

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[chorky]

I’m in California where we consider “cold” below 60 degrees.

A lithium would be better for you then I think, as they last far longer and recharge quicker - since temperature really isn't a concern.

I put in a 40ah lifepo4 "house" battery last year with a renogy dcc50s charger https://www.renogy.com/dcc50s-12v-50a-dc-dc-on-board-battery-charger-with-mppt/

and their 175 watt flexible solar panel for my trip out west. It was mainly to run my dometic fridge and some Camp lights.

It works very well and I have been really pleased with the setup. I did hook it up to the jeep so it would charge while I'm driving and when parked the solar charges both batteries.

All that being said I've had quite a bit of trouble with my oem batteries dying and I ended up getting the Genesis system (gen 3) to replace them recently.
It's not cheap, but I'm happy to be rid of the stock battery setup.

The other issue this solved for me is that I can use accessories hooked up to my spod (lights, compressor, etc) without fear of not being able to start the jeep as that I hooked up to the Genesis aux battery, not the starting battery like with the stock setup.

It's probably overkill, and there are other ways to go, but I'm really happy with the setup now.

I have ess disabled with my tazer and I have no warning lights at all on the dash.

If you use ESS with the Genesis system, my understanding is that after 6 stop/starts it will throw an error, but that goes away when you restart the truck.

I could care less about ess, so it's not a problem for me at least.

It must depend on what year. I have a MY22 and have had no lights - but half way through 21 Jeep changed the the wiring harness and how the negative aux battery cable is routed/connected.

 

[Beemer533]

A lithium would be better for you then I think, as they last far longer and recharge quicker - since temperature really isn't a concern.



It must depend on what year. I have a MY22 and have had no lights - but half way through 21 Jeep changed the the wiring harness and how the negative aux battery cable is routed/connected.

To be honest I haven't actually tried it on mine, ess is just always disabled with my tazer.

I may try it out just for kicks.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Since I now have a 12v cooler (that worked very well on our FL trip where I didn't have to worry a bit about powering it in a 4xe) I should look into a solar panel so I can camp for 2 days and leave the cooler running and not worry about draining the main battery.
It's a cheapy but worked well and using power to charge phone and hearing aids, and lights while camping, a solar bit might be just the thing for temporary use for a day or two and not having to run the truck to build things back up.

 

[chorky]

It's a cheapy but worked well and using power to charge phone and hearing aids, and lights while camping, a solar bit might be just the thing for temporary use for a day or two and not having to run the truck to build things back up.

Zamp solar has a decent mobile unit with an integrated solar charger so you don't need a on board charge controller. This is the route I plan to go since installing a SAE connector just above the NORCO 110v connector - post # 24 https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/destination-unknown-2022-jtr-journal.66430/page-2

Cascadia 4x4 also has a relatively simple option if you are ok with a permanent mount (I realize you probably don't want that though). https://www.cascadia4x4.com/product...diator-jt-vss-system-30-watt-hood-solar-panel This is for the Rubicon - its a stupid tiny panel, but the standard hood, which you have, has a significantly larger panel option.

The thing about solar is it is heavily dependent on sun angles, quality of sun, and if there is any shade. So of course the 'best of the best' would be a system that rotates as the day progresses to maintain optimum sun angles - since thats not really a thing, then either moving panels manually as the day progresses or factoring in a 'loss' amount is good to do.

Another consideration could be one of those power banks that a lot of folks use - personally I would rather have an on board system which isn't really that difficult to do.

Personally I am debating if I want to do a Cascadia or the Zamp solar system. They both have pro's and con's. Since I am now plugging my truck in at home since having the on board CTEK charger I don't need a solar option for home, but having a solar option while camping to extend usages and not need a larger battery bank would be nice. I am right at the edge of needing either decent solar, or a small'ish lithium setup for a couple week long trips I have planned this summer already. But the standard AGM in the Genesis system should be fine for one nighters.

I would be curious what your cooler fridge draws for amps and what the duty cycle is. That in itself (power consumption) is kinda important to know if you start drawing more power than just charging a phone or hearing aids (mine use replaceable batteries). Those cheapie 12v coolers are are really cool but probably draw a bunch of power compared to, say the Engle I have. I know there are some who just risk it plugging it into the main vehicle battery but man that just is uneasy to me - then again much of that is fueled by the fact I am in a very remote area with zero cell signal, so a dead battery (if sat coms dont work) could result in a 30 or even 60 mile walk just to get cell reception for a jump - which is why I am overbuilding these systems.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Zamp solar has a decent mobile unit with an integrated solar charger so you don't need a on board charge controller. This is the route I plan to go since installing a SAE connector just above the NORCO 110v connector - post # 24 https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/destination-unknown-2022-jtr-journal.66430/page-2

Cascadia 4x4 also has a relatively simple option if you are ok with a permanent mount (I realize you probably don't want that though). https://www.cascadia4x4.com/product...diator-jt-vss-system-30-watt-hood-solar-panel This is for the Rubicon - its a stupid tiny panel, but the standard hood, which you have, has a significantly larger panel option.

The thing about solar is it is heavily dependent on sun angles, quality of sun, and if there is any shade. So of course the 'best of the best' would be a system that rotates as the day progresses to maintain optimum sun angles - since thats not really a thing, then either moving panels manually as the day progresses or factoring in a 'loss' amount is good to do.

Another consideration could be one of those power banks that a lot of folks use - personally I would rather have an on board system which isn't really that difficult to do.

Personally I am debating if I want to do a Cascadia or the Zamp solar system. They both have pro's and con's. Since I am now plugging my truck in at home since having the on board CTEK charger I don't need a solar option for home, but having a solar option while camping to extend usages and not need a larger battery bank would be nice. I am right at the edge of needing either decent solar, or a small'ish lithium setup for a couple week long trips I have planned this summer already. But the standard AGM in the Genesis system should be fine for one nighters.

I would be curious what your cooler fridge draws for amps and what the duty cycle is. That in itself (power consumption) is kinda important to know if you start drawing more power than just charging a phone or hearing aids (mine use replaceable batteries). Those cheapie 12v coolers are are really cool but probably draw a bunch of power compared to, say the Engle I have. I know there are some who just risk it plugging it into the main vehicle battery but man that just is uneasy to me - then again much of that is fueled by the fact I am in a very remote area with zero cell signal, so a dead battery (if sat coms dont work) could result in a 30 or even 60 mile walk just to get cell reception for a jump - which is why I am overbuilding these systems.

It's a cheapie. Didn't want to spend a ton for something used 2 or 3 times a year, tops, and then for only 3 or 4 days if that. It runs constantly. The A/C adapter gets hot when I prep it in the house.
It actually kept a 1/2 gallon jug of ice frozen for the whole time and things stayed cold. But then - we were talking 45 degrees for much of the way down and back, and while there, it was maybe 70 degrees or so. So figure "40 degrees below ambient" means it was easily keeping 30-40 degrees. Yeah, not energy efficient by any stretch, but that wasn't my goal. Inexpensive, occasional use, that was my goal. And didn't have the quick cash to spend more than 150-200 at the time anyway.
If I get something solar, I want something I can lay across the hood and clip onto the battery, something that is more like a solar battery tender than anything. If it keeps up with the cooler, that would do fine.
I just do "overland" and camp for days on end like many here. I'm usually where there's people, or at least services within walking distance (or flagging someone down if on the road). I just don't want hot food and drink or a dead battery while at swap meets, car shows, or any traveling.

I gave up the replaceable batteries way back. Inconvenient as heck, they always died when least convenient and now I can simply plug in for a while, say, while driving for hours, and let 'em charge. I hated the money on batteries that ended up on a landfill and realizing crap, I need to go buy batteries. Airports, dealership waiting areas, cars, trucks, airplanes, you name it, all have charging areas for USB devices, plus, I have a battery pack that can charge a phone (although the hearing aids don't draw enough power to keep the battery pack powered on so it keeps shutting off!)

 

[chorky]

It's a cheapie. Didn't want to spend a ton for something used 2 or 3 times a year, tops, and then for only 3 or 4 days if that. It runs constantly. The A/C adapter gets hot when I prep it in the house.
It actually kept a 1/2 gallon jug of ice frozen for the whole time and things stayed cold. But then - we were talking 45 degrees for much of the way down and back, and while there, it was maybe 70 degrees or so. So figure "40 degrees below ambient" means it was easily keeping 30-40 degrees. Yeah, not energy efficient by any stretch, but that wasn't my goal. Inexpensive, occasional use, that was my goal. And didn't have the quick cash to spend more than 150-200 at the time anyway.
If I get something solar, I want something I can lay across the hood and clip onto the battery, something that is more like a solar battery tender than anything. If it keeps up with the cooler, that would do fine.
I just do "overland" and camp for days on end like many here. I'm usually where there's people, or at least services within walking distance (or flagging someone down if on the road). I just don't want hot food and drink or a dead battery while at swap meets, car shows, or any traveling.

I gave up the replaceable batteries way back. Inconvenient as heck, they always died when least convenient and now I can simply plug in for a while, say, while driving for hours, and let 'em charge. I hated the money on batteries that ended up on a landfill and realizing crap, I need to go buy batteries. Airports, dealership waiting areas, cars, trucks, airplanes, you name it, all have charging areas for USB devices, plus, I have a battery pack that can charge a phone (although the hearing aids don't draw enough power to keep the battery pack powered on so it keeps shutting off!)

My dad has one of those cooler things too and they do work really good for the price, but yeah I think their power draw is pretty excessive - it seems they are more meant to run when the vehicle is on rather than all the time for camping - but that doesn't mean it can't work with the right preparations.

So it sounds like solar is really the way you would prefer to go, which is totally fine (kinda like how I really want to stick with AGM if possible). There are SO many options for that. And it depends if you want the entire solar setup to be modular, and/or movable, or if you are ok with some components being hard mounted and just the panels being movable, etc....

One consideration could be a hard mounted MPPT controller, of which there are many options, mounted in your bed and run a wire set capable of 20 amps (just to be safe) to the battery for charging and use. Wire excessive yes but this way you wouldn't have to open the hood and could plug it in in the bed where your other stuff is. Or, a couple panels like that Zamp example where there is a built in MPPT and you can link 2 or 3 other panels. There are a few different companies that make 'flexible' panels you can lay on the hood or windshield, and easily pack away. So theres lots of options.

It still comes down to how much energy you are using though, this is kinda critical - so you really should consider doing an energy audit like what I did. Here is a spreadsheet you can start with. I was playing around with it recently though so double check some of the calculations. And the AH calculations I made are not correct on there currently, just use AH at their face value. I believe the factory MOPAR battery is rated at 75AH, so that's about 35AH of usability before you have an issue or cause permanent damage. Based on that then you can see where you are at, and figure out how much solar you need or want. The previous phone/hearing aid charging is no biggie, but a 12v cooler like what you have is kinda a game changer in terms of energy consumption.

 

[Blade1668]

I'm following this thread. I've have "no dog in the fight" a good thing to follow for learning to me.
My added "house" battery is a (100 amp) LiPo battery separate from for factory charging system of direct connection. But branched in though solar controller to feed power to vehicles batteries secondary and secondary to house battery from vehicle system when running. 200w solar as primary charger to house battery.
A factor I have found is during extended low charge from solar and or cold weather. I have to plug in a charger for it, I've had it shut down a few times due to low power it was during cooler weather. During a few of the cold weather snaps I just turned off my fridge freezer heck everything in it frozen solid anyway due to the outside temperature. The house battery is mounted in cab area of my JT to help climate control it some. "Not my first choice of location" I did think about mounting under bed.
I've got the 85 w Cascadia solar system on mine it's hooked to vehicle batteries, separate from house system.

 

[Beemer533]

My dad has one of those cooler things too and they do work really good for the price, but yeah I think their power draw is pretty excessive - it seems they are more meant to run when the vehicle is on rather than all the time for camping - but that doesn't mean it can't work with the right preparations.

So it sounds like solar is really the way you would prefer to go, which is totally fine (kinda like how I really want to stick with AGM if possible). There are SO many options for that. And it depends if you want the entire solar setup to be modular, and/or movable, or if you are ok with some components being hard mounted and just the panels being movable, etc....

One consideration could be a hard mounted MPPT controller, of which there are many options, mounted in your bed and run a wire set capable of 20 amps (just to be safe) to the battery for charging and use. Wire excessive yes but this way you wouldn't have to open the hood and could plug it in in the bed where your other stuff is. Or, a couple panels like that Zamp example where there is a built in MPPT and you can link 2 or 3 other panels. There are a few different companies that make 'flexible' panels you can lay on the hood or windshield, and easily pack away. So theres lots of options.

...

I have a Domestic CFX55il, single zone freezer or fridge. It does have an ice cube tray which is awesome to have ice at the end of a hot day.. That definitely takes some juice so I only ran it while driving, I think it needed about 2ish hours to freeze.

Ice cubes notwithstanding, the fridge draws about 8.9ah in fridge mode (set at 39). Now obviously that is dependent on how full and what is in the fridge, as well as the ambient temp, but according to the dometic app it was averaging right about .8ah with a 10% duty cycle while I was in UT, AZ and CO last September.

*edited for incorrect figures....


With my 40ah lifepo4 (I bought it used on ebay so I estimate it at 35ah)in an ideal use case I expect to get about 30 hours runtime.

In reality I also had a few led lights and a couple of things charging so it was a bit less.

If I parked around 7pm and checked it around 9am the battery was typically around 11.5 volts. Obviously you wouldn't go that low with an agm, but my main point is these are surprisingly efficient.

Now I will say that my fridge is in the bed under my Alu-cab and if I was doing this in June in UT obviously my runtime would be reduced.


I opted to go for a fixed install as the pricing for the capacity was substantially better than an equivalent jackery with solar panels.

My renogy 175w flexible panel was about $200 and the renogy dcs50 charger was $260. I spent $170 on a used 40ah lifepo4 and maybe $150 in wiring.

 

[Beemer533]

Since I now have a 12v cooler (that worked very well on our FL trip where I didn't have to worry a bit about powering it in a 4xe) I should look into a solar panel so I can camp for 2 days and leave the cooler running and not worry about draining the main battery.
It's a cheapy but worked well and using power to charge phone and hearing aids, and lights while camping, a solar bit might be just the thing for temporary use for a day or two and not having to run the truck to build things back up.

Renogy has some basic kits that might work.

https://www.renogy.com/100-watt-12-volt-monocrystalline-foldable-solar-suitcase-with-voyager/

That is pretty cheap, but it is a less efficient pwm controller. I'd recommend going with an mppt instead.

But depends on where you Camp really. I'd probably go with 200w setup as a minimum.

With my 175w panel on my roof tent Angled the best I could into the sun the max I ever saw was 130w in UT. 90w was more common.

 

[ttn333]

I'm following this thread. I've have "no dog in the fight" a good thing to follow for learning to me.
My added "house" battery is a (100 amp) LiPo battery separate from for factory charging system of direct connection. But branched in though solar controller to feed power to vehicles batteries secondary and secondary to house battery from vehicle system when running. 200w solar as primary charger to house battery.
A factor I have found is during extended low charge from solar and or cold weather. I have to plug in a charger for it, I've had it shut down a few times due to low power it was during cooler weather. During a few of the cold weather snaps I just turned off my fridge freezer heck everything in it frozen solid anyway due to the outside temperature. The house battery is mounted in cab area of my JT to help climate control it some. "Not my first choice of location" I did think about mounting under bed.
I've got the 85 w Cascadia solar system on mine it's hooked to vehicle batteries, separate from house system.

I'm a bit confused about your system. If you have 200w solar charging both your main battery (car) and house battery, then why do you need the cascadia system? Redundancy? Feels a bit unnecessary. I have my house battery charged through solar and not connected to the car battery at all. Also use a ac-dc charger from the bed outlet for when the truck is running. Nice to be able to switch that on/off from the cab. I've been thinking about going dc-dc route so the solar can charge the main battery as well via something like a renogy dcc50s with mppt.

 

[ttn333]

I have a Domestic CFX55il, single zone freezer or fridge. It does have an ice cube tray which is awesome to have ice at the end of a hot day.. That definitely takes some juice so I only ran it while driving, I think it needed about 2ish hours to freeze.

Ice cubes notwithstanding, the fridge only draws about .8ah in fridge mode (set at 39). Now obviously that is dependent on how full and what is in the fridge, as well as the ambient temp, but according to the dometic app it was averaging right about .8ah with a typical 30% duty cycle while I was in UT, AZ and CO last September.

With my 40ah lifepo4 (I bought it used on ebay so I estimate it at 35ah)in an ideal use case I expect to get about 30 hours runtime.

In reality I also had a few led lights and a couple of things charging so it was a bit less.

If I parked around 7pm and checked it around 9am the battery was typically around 11.5 volts. Obviously you wouldn't go that low with an agm, but my main point is these are surprisingly efficient.

Now I will say that my fridge is in the bed under my Alu-cab and if I was doing this in June in UT obviously my runtime would be reduced.


I opted to go for a fixed install as the pricing for the capacity was substantially better than an equivalent jackery with solar panels.

My renogy 175w flexible panel was about $200 and the renogy dcs50 charger was $260. I spent $170 on a used 40ah lifepo4 and maybe $150 in wiring.

Wish I got the 175w panel instead of the 100w. I was rushing for a trip and order the wrong. so I mounted it anyway. But with a 100ah lifepo, it hasn't been an issue since the fridge really doesn't draw that much and the battery gets fully charged in a few hours of daylight. I imagine it is different if you camp in overcast warmer weather. I also have a couple of portable solar blankets. They are a lot more effective since you can move them around through out the day as the position of the sun changes. Worse case I'd just pick up another 100ah renogy and make life alot easier. I can get one for abouth $350 around here. So not bad at all.

 

[Beemer533]

Wish I got the 175w panel instead of the 100w. I was rushing for a trip and order the wrong. so I mounted it anyway. But with a 100ah lifepo, it hasn't been an issue since the fridge really doesn't draw that much and the battery gets fully charged in a few hours of daylight. I imagine it is different if you camp in overcast warmer weather. I also have a couple of portable solar blankets. They are a lot more effective since you can move them around through out the day as the position of the sun changes. Worse case I'd just pick up another 100ah renogy and make life alot easier. I can get one for abouth $350 around here. So not bad at all.

Yeah, I was glad I went with the 175. It worked pretty well.

I've been looking at the renogy 100ah as well since it's one thing to get solar in UT, but camping here in NY there is a lot less sun and a lot more trees...

Where exactly are you finding the 100ah for $350? That's a screaming deal.

 

[ttn333]

Yeah, I was glad I went with the 175. It worked pretty well.

I've been looking at the renogy 100ah as well since it's one thing to get solar in UT, but camping here in NY there is a lot less sun and a lot more trees...

Where exactly are you finding the 100ah for $350? That's a screaming deal.

You can find them on ebay. I found one of the ebay sellers on facebook who had a shop local to me. Had 100% rating and battery has been running perfectly for about a year.

 

[chorky]

I'm a bit confused about your system. If you have 200w solar charging both your main battery (car) and house battery, then why do you need the cascadia system? Redundancy? Feels a bit unnecessary. I have my house battery charged through solar and not connected to the car battery at all. Also use a ac-dc charger from the bed outlet for when the truck is running. Nice to be able to switch that on/off from the cab. I've been thinking about going dc-dc route so the solar can charge the main battery as well via something like a renogy dcc50s with mppt.

The Cascadia system ONLY charges AGM. So another charge controller would be necessary for a lithium system. Lithium, AGM, wet led acid, all take different charging profiles. Not all chargers are capable of charging all of the different profiles, and you would need a separate charger for the AGM vs lithium anyway because the two systems cannot be directly connected together.

I have a Domestic CFX55il, single zone freezer or fridge. It does have an ice cube tray which is awesome to have ice at the end of a hot day.. That definitely takes some juice so I only ran it while driving, I think it needed about 2ish hours to freeze.

Ice cubes notwithstanding, the fridge only draws about .8ah in fridge mode (set at 39). Now obviously that is dependent on how full and what is in the fridge, as well as the ambient temp, but according to the dometic app it was averaging right about .8ah with a typical 30% duty cycle while I was in UT, AZ and CO last September.

With my 40ah lifepo4 (I bought it used on ebay so I estimate it at 35ah)in an ideal use case I expect to get about 30 hours runtime.

In reality I also had a few led lights and a couple of things charging so it was a bit less.

If I parked around 7pm and checked it around 9am the battery was typically around 11.5 volts. Obviously you wouldn't go that low with an agm, but my main point is these are surprisingly efficient.

Now I will say that my fridge is in the bed under my Alu-cab and if I was doing this in June in UT obviously my runtime would be reduced.


I opted to go for a fixed install as the pricing for the capacity was substantially better than an equivalent jackery with solar panels.

My renogy 175w flexible panel was about $200 and the renogy dcs50 charger was $260. I spent $170 on a used 40ah lifepo4 and maybe $150 in wiring.

I am doubting that 0.8ah spec - that would be lower than any fridge ever. Engle is known for drawing the lowest amount of power as it uses a rotary compressor where as everyone else uses a standard style, and they spec an average of 1.5 with a max of 2.5ah. I could be wrong, but that doesn't compute at all. Have you put an actual DVM inline with it to see what it really pulls - not looking just at the app? Actually, I just looked at the domestic site. they spec 0.84ah but that is for 110V AC power like in your house. Their 12v DC power spec is 8.9ah. That sounds more appropriate.




It is interesting to note though that even with all the calculations in the world, real world usages can vary a ton!

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