Sponsored

Genesis system - how much space after install

OP
OP
chorky

chorky

Well-Known Member
First Name
Chad
Joined
Feb 26, 2022
Threads
154
Messages
2,979
Reaction score
3,046
Location
Montana
Website
www.youtube.com
Vehicle(s)
'06 TJ GE, '22 JTR
Build Thread
Link
Occupation
Forester
Frankly, IF I were to do such a thing, I'd stick with Genesis. Tried and proven and a lot of users here who can help support it. It comes with the tray to fit the Jeep and replace t
The one thing I dont like about the genesis is how it charges batteries the same when the batteries have a different charge. So the whole point of their system is to be able to use and drain the second battery while camping with the main battery being unlinked. Well...once you start the engine, and the batteries link, then the smart alternator is going to charge both batteries at the same rate. We all know how problematic that is for long term stuff. But it is the cleanest system I have seen on the market so far and it is a pretty quality build.


I don't have the Genesis but I have a similar style setup that I bet takes up around the same amount of space. I thought that the new Gen 3 system already had "extra" terminals for winch, lights etc? Maybe you don't need that space? I was able to mount up a Blue Sea positive 4 slot bus bar at the front of my lid for accessories.

My SwitchPros is mounted on the driver side using a Power Trays alloy bracket. (currently V6 GAS option only)

PXL_20210715_173120630.jpg


PXL_20210715_173140749.jpg


PXL_20210715_173336422.jpg
Now this is awesome!! It looks like you used the genesis tray, and then made your own top plate. I like the integration of the DC/DC. I wonder if I can make a plate like you did but integrate it with the genesis one to mount the switch pros and the breakers. Or maybe the switch pros can go on the cowl right above the factory fuse box lid...... The Gen3 system does have buss bars, but I still want solenoids to shut off power to winches so the wires aren't always activated.

This is a great idea. I'm not sure if I want to relocate the switch pros over to the passenger side because it would require I entirely re-do a bunch of wiring. In hindsight I probably should have put it on the passenger side in the first place.
Sponsored

 

ShadowsPapa

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Oct 12, 2019
Threads
178
Messages
29,091
Reaction score
34,573
Location
Runnells, Iowa
Vehicle(s)
'22 JTO, '23 JLU, '82 SX4, '73 P. Cardin Javelin
Occupation
Retired auto mechanic, frmr gov't ntwrk security admin
Vehicle Showcase
3
Well...once you start the engine, and the batteries link, then the smart alternator is going to charge both batteries at the same rate. We all know how problematic that is for long term stuff. But it is the cleanest system I have seen on the market so far and it is a pretty quality build.
Once they are in parallel you can charge two batteries of different states of charge.
After-all, vehicles do this all the time. Our Jeeps do it all the time (but with the smaller battery, it's not going to work as well)
The time it really matters is if the batteries are of different technologies.
The more up battery will start to discharge into the down battery, things will equalize and the system sees the voltage and state of the pair.
Parallel charging is done all the time.

Of course the way these replacement systems work negates the IBS system Jeep uses so it won't have any idea what's going on. It has no history, it only knows the voltage it sees now. Not the temperature, etc.

I find it stupid that the industry writers have decided to call these "smart alternators" because frankly, the alternator is as dumb as a 1970 Chevrolet alternator. It knows nothing. There's nothing in it, no electronics, heck, an old 10si is smarter as it actually has a built-in regulator. It's the PCM that's smart. The alternator only does what it's told - it's a parrot
 

Mr._Bill

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Threads
29
Messages
5,152
Reaction score
5,403
Location
North Las Vegas, NV
Vehicle(s)
2020 Jeep Gladiator Overland - 2013 Nissan Leaf SV
Vehicle Showcase
1
I am aware of what Genesis does, which is why I mentioned needing 2 new identical batteries instead of one in this set up. But this looks like it achieves the same exact goal (additional battery capacity/more reliable power). The only difference is you are offloading the AUX to the new 3rd battery, reducing the stress on the stock set up where as Genesis uses a smart circuit to bridge the batteries and ensure one of them is always 100%

I belive @Mr Bill did this (add the third battery), correct?
I did add a third battery. I used a Cole Hersee Smart Isolator, like the one in the Genesis kit, and a twenty foot Warn Winch cable set to connect it. I have the advantage of the Genesis kit, two full sized batteries, with the ESS and factory wiring remaining intact. I added a 34M deep cycle battery in a stainless steel box mounted to the frame behind the right rear wheel.

I have had to use the third battery to start the truck all this week. One or both of the two factory batteries are failing. I noticed it Monday when the remote start function stopped working. The resting voltage is dropping to 11 volts overnight, down to 9 volts if it sits long enough. I have the ESS disabled light on the dash and a message at startup that the AUX switches are temporarily unavailable while the battery is charging. I bought two new batteries a month ago, I will finally have some time this afternoon to install them.

The thread I started on it is here: https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/diy-dual-battery-setup.23232/
 
Last edited:

ShadowsPapa

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Oct 12, 2019
Threads
178
Messages
29,091
Reaction score
34,573
Location
Runnells, Iowa
Vehicle(s)
'22 JTO, '23 JLU, '82 SX4, '73 P. Cardin Javelin
Occupation
Retired auto mechanic, frmr gov't ntwrk security admin
Vehicle Showcase
3
I did add a third battery. I used a Cole Hersee Smart Isolator, like the one in the Genesis kit, and a twenty foot Warn Winch cable set to connect it. I have the advantage of the Genesis kit, two full sized batteries, with the ESS and factory wiring remaining intact. I added a 34M deep cycle battery in a stainless steel box mounted to the frame behind the right rear wheel.

I have had to use the third battery to start the truck all this week. One or both of the two factory batteries are failing. I noticed it Monday when the remote start function stopped working. The resting voltage is dropping to 11 volts overnight, down to 9 volts if it sits long enough. I have the ESS disabled light on the dash and a message at startup that the AUX switches are temporarily unavailable while the battery is charging. I bought two new batteries a month ago, I will finally have some time this afternoon to install them.

The thread I started on it is here: https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/diy-dual-battery-setup.23232/
I am curious - if you were willing to experiment -
Isolate the batteries from each other (the two factory batteries) by pulling the negative aux battery lead off the negative post of the crank battery.
Charge each independently with a charger that is AGM capable.
See how the voltage comes up or not for each, and then with the aux battery still disconnected, let it sit and see which loses voltage over night.
 
OP
OP
chorky

chorky

Well-Known Member
First Name
Chad
Joined
Feb 26, 2022
Threads
154
Messages
2,979
Reaction score
3,046
Location
Montana
Website
www.youtube.com
Vehicle(s)
'06 TJ GE, '22 JTR
Build Thread
Link
Occupation
Forester
I did add a third battery. I used a Cole Hersee Smart Isolator, like the one in the Genesis kit, and a twenty foot Warn Winch cable set to connect it. I have the advantage of the Genesis kit, two full sized batteries, with the ESS and factory wiring remaining intact. I added a 34M deep cycle battery in a stainless steel box mounted to the frame behind the right rear wheel.

I have had to use the third battery to start the truck all this week. One or both of the two factory batteries are failing. I noticed it Monday when the remote start function stopped working. The resting voltage is dropping to 11 volts overnight, down to 9 volts if it sits long enough. I have the ESS disabled light on the dash and a message at startup that the AUX switches are temporarily unavailable while the battery is charging. I bought two new batteries a month ago, I will finally have some time this afternoon to install them.

The thread I started on it is here: https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/diy-dual-battery-setup.23232/
i do remember reading that thread a while ago. Its a nice idea. The box hangs kinda low though have you never been worried about smacking it on something?
 

Sponsored

Mr._Bill

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Threads
29
Messages
5,152
Reaction score
5,403
Location
North Las Vegas, NV
Vehicle(s)
2020 Jeep Gladiator Overland - 2013 Nissan Leaf SV
Vehicle Showcase
1
i do remember reading that thread a while ago. Its a nice idea. The box hangs kinda low though have you never been worried about smacking it on something?
I've never been worried. It does hang down a little, but it sits higher than the spare tire. It's not yet been an issue.
 

ShadowsPapa

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Oct 12, 2019
Threads
178
Messages
29,091
Reaction score
34,573
Location
Runnells, Iowa
Vehicle(s)
'22 JTO, '23 JLU, '82 SX4, '73 P. Cardin Javelin
Occupation
Retired auto mechanic, frmr gov't ntwrk security admin
Vehicle Showcase
3
I've never been worried. It does hang down a little, but it sits higher than the spare tire. It's not yet been an issue.
IT would take a real freak thing to damage your rear battery where it is - like the wheel tossing a big branch or log up there. The truck body would take a hit first, I'd expect, and you'd be into the spare in most cases.
Maybe you should invent a skid plate for that area and sell them for $300 a pop.
 

darkhorse13

Well-Known Member
First Name
John
Joined
Jun 4, 2020
Threads
40
Messages
602
Reaction score
877
Location
Castle Rock, CO
Vehicle(s)
2020 JTR
Occupation
Data Analyst
Now this is awesome!! It looks like you used the genesis tray, and then made your own top plate. I like the integration of the DC/DC. I wonder if I can make a plate like you did but integrate it with the genesis one to mount the switch pros and the breakers. Or maybe the switch pros can go on the cowl right above the factory fuse box lid...... The Gen3 system does have buss bars, but I still want solenoids to shut off power to winches so the wires aren't always activated.

This is a great idea. I'm not sure if I want to relocate the switch pros over to the passenger side because it would require I entirely re-do a bunch of wiring. In hindsight I probably should have put it on the passenger side in the first place.
Thanks! This was the first prototype kit from Juniper Overland. They have since created their own 2-piece tray and a more "finished" looking top lid. The shop only uses Redarc for all their electrical management needs. The BCDC1225 unit is phenomenal and the solar input is what saves my bacon. Even with just a Group 25 aux battery, my 35W hood panel is more than enough to keep the battery fully topped off and above 12.5V after a warm night of the big ARB 63QT fridge running while we sleep. I also added an additional solar hookup to the front grill for a 120W panel when I need extra juice. All solar inputs are tied directly into the yellow wire of the Redarc. My power needs are met by my system but I do understand if others need more "juice" as this is about the bare minimum for an overlanding setup IMO.

PXL_20210603_191312818.jpg


PXL_20210725_180631055.jpg


PXL_20210725_182406038.jpg


PXL_20210725_182433906.jpg


PXL_20210730_230605571.jpg
 
OP
OP
chorky

chorky

Well-Known Member
First Name
Chad
Joined
Feb 26, 2022
Threads
154
Messages
2,979
Reaction score
3,046
Location
Montana
Website
www.youtube.com
Vehicle(s)
'06 TJ GE, '22 JTR
Build Thread
Link
Occupation
Forester
IT would take a real freak thing to damage your rear battery where it is - like the wheel tossing a big branch or log up there. The truck body would take a hit first, I'd expect, and you'd be into the spare in most cases.
Maybe you should invent a skid plate for that area and sell them for $300 a pop.
Im not gonna disagree but I will say I see a awful lot of videos with people dragging their rear bumper off road.…I already kicked up a large stick into my trans pan area recently. So those skid plates are going on soon probably. But it just seems like a pretty vulnerable spot. I do like that there are ideas for mounting that is not taking up more bed spade though. Something to consider for sure. It would also allow for a much easier rear winch hookup. Hmm.…..


Thanks! This was the first prototype kit from Juniper Overland. They have since created their own 2-piece tray and a more "finished" looking top lid. The shop only uses Redarc for all their electrical management needs. The BCDC1225 unit is phenomenal and the solar input is what saves my bacon. Even with just a Group 25 aux battery, my 35W hood panel is more than enough to keep the battery fully topped off and above 12.5V after a warm night of the big ARB 63QT fridge running while we sleep. I also added an additional solar hookup to the front grill for a 120W panel when I need extra juice. All solar inputs are tied directly into the yellow wire of the Redarc. My power needs are met by my system but I do understand if others need more "juice" as this is about the bare minimum for an overlanding setup IMO.

Jeep Gladiator Genesis system - how much space after install PXL_20210730_230605571


Jeep Gladiator Genesis system - how much space after install PXL_20210730_230605571


Jeep Gladiator Genesis system - how much space after install PXL_20210730_230605571


Jeep Gladiator Genesis system - how much space after install PXL_20210730_230605571


Jeep Gladiator Genesis system - how much space after install PXL_20210730_230605571
I was looking more at the driver side mount you have. The company is out of stock. Not sure if theyre gonna make more. But the more I look at the more I do like it simply to help de-clutter the battery area. Its interesting the two different approaches between your setup and genesis. They use a combiner. You use a dc/dc charger. No idea which is better. With AGM i think genesis would be a better setup. But if your using lithium for the second battery then for sure the redarc is necessary. I think a third battery really is a necessity if running more than a fridge especially considering the limited space under the hood
 

ShadowsPapa

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Oct 12, 2019
Threads
178
Messages
29,091
Reaction score
34,573
Location
Runnells, Iowa
Vehicle(s)
'22 JTO, '23 JLU, '82 SX4, '73 P. Cardin Javelin
Occupation
Retired auto mechanic, frmr gov't ntwrk security admin
Vehicle Showcase
3
Dragging bumpers is one thing - but if you draw a line between the bottom of the bumper and the other lower parts of the vehicle just ahead of his battery, that are lower than his battery, his battery isn't at risk unless something weird happens and then he's likely got other problems.

DC/DC charger is better for what he's doing, no question.
With a battery that far away from the charging system, even with larger cables, there's going to be some loss. Each connection has the possibility of fractions of a volt, then the length of the wire itself. Even if the difference is only .4 or so, it's potential issue. DC/DC charger is ideal for his setup, IMO.

It's also not fair to compare Genesis with his system because the goals are different.
(and his is a heck of a lot cheaper)
Genesis is making money hand over fist on their battery tray and certain other items and is aimed at a different market.
 

Sponsored

Matts4313

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Aug 30, 2021
Threads
14
Messages
391
Reaction score
418
Location
austin tx
Vehicle(s)
2021 JT Max Tow
I did add a third battery. I used a Cole Hersee Smart Isolator, like the one in the Genesis kit, and a twenty foot Warn Winch cable set to connect it. I have the advantage of the Genesis kit, two full sized batteries, with the ESS and factory wiring remaining intact. I added a 34M deep cycle battery in a stainless steel box mounted to the frame behind the right rear wheel.

I have had to use the third battery to start the truck all this week. One or both of the two factory batteries are failing. I noticed it Monday when the remote start function stopped working. The resting voltage is dropping to 11 volts overnight, down to 9 volts if it sits long enough. I have the ESS disabled light on the dash and a message at startup that the AUX switches are temporarily unavailable while the battery is charging. I bought two new batteries a month ago, I will finally have some time this afternoon to install them.

The thread I started on it is here: https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/diy-dual-battery-setup.23232/
Would you say the kit I linked is a similar concept? An isolator, 20ft of 0 gauge pos and 2ft 0 gauge neg? I would still obviously need the additional battery and to mount it somewhere, perhaps even the same spot you did.
 

Mr._Bill

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Threads
29
Messages
5,152
Reaction score
5,403
Location
North Las Vegas, NV
Vehicle(s)
2020 Jeep Gladiator Overland - 2013 Nissan Leaf SV
Vehicle Showcase
1
Would you say the kit I linked is a similar concept? An isolator, 20ft of 0 gauge pos and 2ft 0 gauge neg? I would still obviously need the additional battery and to mount it somewhere, perhaps even the same spot you did.
Yes, that kit includes what I put together. Right now, Amazon shows a $100 coupon, making it only $150. That is a good price. It was $100 just for the Isolator that I used.
 
OP
OP
chorky

chorky

Well-Known Member
First Name
Chad
Joined
Feb 26, 2022
Threads
154
Messages
2,979
Reaction score
3,046
Location
Montana
Website
www.youtube.com
Vehicle(s)
'06 TJ GE, '22 JTR
Build Thread
Link
Occupation
Forester
Dragging bumpers is one thing - but if you draw a line between the bottom of the bumper and the other lower parts of the vehicle just ahead of his battery, that are lower than his battery, his battery isn't at risk unless something weird happens and then he's likely got other problems.

DC/DC charger is better for what he's doing, no question.
With a battery that far away from the charging system, even with larger cables, there's going to be some loss. Each connection has the possibility of fractions of a volt, then the length of the wire itself. Even if the difference is only .4 or so, it's potential issue. DC/DC charger is ideal for his setup, IMO.

It's also not fair to compare Genesis with his system because the goals are different.
(and his is a heck of a lot cheaper)
Genesis is making money hand over fist on their battery tray and certain other items and is aimed at a different market.
Well it wont fit for me having the rubicon anyway…. But yeah I mean thats obvious theres loss with a 20’ wire run. I noticed a decent loss yesterday testing my dual compressor after hooking it up. How much I am not sure, gotta take some measurements first. But I would argue that the genesis kit and the setup darkhorse and Mr Bill have can be used similarly, with a couple exceptions. Of course the dc/dc system is optimal for power utilization while camping but solar and shore power can be hooked up to both systems. but they all utilize amg batteries unless i misread something. The real benifit of a dc/dc that I see is to utilize a house battery of a different type, like a lithium. Or to have total battery separation Without needing to flip a switch. personally I think that different battery types is actually the inly reason to do a dc/dc. Because if a person had the genesis, and even a 3rd agm battery, you could combine all 3 when say doing a heavy winch pull. Combining a agm and lithium I dont think would turn out very good, but could be wrong on that. Genesis seems better for just eliminating the factory ass battery and provide a huge buss bar for attachments. A person could always just get the Genesis tray and do the rest of their own. I would be curious to dig more into this ‘battery combi ner’ they talk about and how it is different than a solenoid.
 
Last edited:

Matts4313

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Aug 30, 2021
Threads
14
Messages
391
Reaction score
418
Location
austin tx
Vehicle(s)
2021 JT Max Tow
Yes, that kit includes what I put together. Right now, Amazon shows a $100 coupon, making it only $150. That is a good price. It was $100 just for the Isolator that I used.
Yeah, the coupon is why I was so desperately trying to figure this out. Thank you for the help!
 
OP
OP
chorky

chorky

Well-Known Member
First Name
Chad
Joined
Feb 26, 2022
Threads
154
Messages
2,979
Reaction score
3,046
Location
Montana
Website
www.youtube.com
Vehicle(s)
'06 TJ GE, '22 JTR
Build Thread
Link
Occupation
Forester
Yeah, the coupon is why I was so desperately trying to figure this out. Thank you for the help!
yeah thats a good deal i almost want to get one just for the wires
Sponsored

 
 



Top