Has anyone noticed their gladiator burning oil

[JET_83]

Be carefully. Ever watch the movie Pulp Fiction? You could end up being a gimp in the garage.

Not if you’re a ninja ? ?

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[ShadowsPapa]

 

[Rusty PW]

Not if you’re a ninja ? ?

you have a ball gag around your neck?

 

[Gvsukids]

jet dude when in Iowa stop by my shop sometime, you can go through my cabinet of new engine parts and see the ring designs and pistons from ages ago -, the documentation from Dana corp, and you can see the 3 V8s I have sitting here waiting for a rebuild (if I ever get back to them!)

Are we all invited, or just those who question the master?

 

[Ankh]

Possible tension breaker.

My jt burns about 2 quarts of gas everytime I drive to the Post office.

 

[bleda2002]

7/8? So it was 4 ounces from being a quart low. Does your dip-cable have micrometer markings?

No lol, the dip stick actually showed it on the low side which means 1 qt, but when I drained the oil I poured it back in to the jug with the measurements on the back and got about 4 1/8th back.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Are we all invited, or just those who question the master?

I dunno about the master junk, but anyone is................. warning - no trails unless you like chasing cows through muddy fields.

 

[Blade1668]

I've had my JT "burn" oil on a trip, blow by then burned off. I was towing light trailer with my 4wheeler. On way back I had to stop and buy a jug of oil. I was thinking WTF is going on. When it down shifted rpms hit 3 plus k oil pressure would shoot up to 70 and higher, oil temp would spike past 210. Then I would smell burned oil. I had to add 2 qts. on way back. There was a lot of hills and the speed limit of 70, I backed my speed down to 60-65 mph. Only had it happen on that trip, my mileage was over 40000 mile range then I had oil tested not long after that trip. Nothing odd was found in sample.

Oh yeah I just changed the oil in mine Monday and was 1/2-3/4 qt. short of 5qt. when I drained the catch pan back in 5 qt jug not counting the oil spilled on my hand and ect.

 

[Blade1668]

So what I'm seeing is the 3.6 vaporizes some oil when oil temperature is high plus running higher oil pressure and / or ran at higher rpms. by forcing in pcv then though air intake to be burned. I may be wrong but being someone that watches coolant, trans, oil temperature and oil pressure. Plus pays attention to what I smell.

FYI: I'm not a mechanic or engine technician, just someone who tries to keep my own stuff running as long as possible.

 

[just_another_guy]

Mine doesn't seem to burn any, but I'm coming up on my 2nd change (not counting the one I did @500mi) and it's looking pretty dark on the dipstick with only 5,000mi on this interval. It's used for light towing about 75% of the time which probably doesn't help, but I thought a brand new motor with tight tolerances would stay a little cleaner than it is.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

plus running higher oil pressure and / or ran at higher rpms.

70 is hardly high oil pressure. It's much higher than needed, as has been discovered once people listened to reason, but it's not high. The theory used to be higher pressure lubed better - that's wrong.
Not long ago most V8 engines on the highway at highway speeds were running 60-80 psi. (and people wondered why gears driving the pumps wore out)

but I thought a brand new motor with tight tolerances would stay a little cleaner than it is.

Don't equate darker color with not clean. There are a few posts out here on that (admittedly, some I posted) where the oil companies, NAPA, and others explain the reasons for oil turning dark other than dirt. So just because it may be more brown than it was doesn't mean oh, crap, it's dirty. Likely it's not - not visually, anyway. The heat just caused certain additives to change color - normally.

 

[Jeeperjamie]

Wow, what did I miss!!!!

Op from what I've been told by other Dealerships in the past, a quart or 2 of oil low can be expect sometimes and falls within their guidelines. Anyone would be hard to find a dealership or car manufacturer who would warranty a vehicle that's only using that much oil. While it may not be standard across the board, it can happen. My wife's Volkswagen Beetle we had would burn 2 quarts between oil changes and it did that from 12,000 miles on and they thought it fell within the guidelines. I had it changed every 5,000 miles. Our 2009 BMW 328i would using a quart or so between oil changes and BMW said it was normal. Changed oil every 8,000 miles in it. Both bought new. My 2010 JKU would use 2 quarts between oil changes from around 25,000 miles on. I changed the oil every 5,000 miles in it. Bought it used with 4500 miles on it. Dealership said it was normal use. I will say I drove the crap out of the JKU, I didn't hold back, and it was on 35's or 37's all but maybe 2 months of the 7yrs I owned it. Not sure if that matters or not.

I'll also say that even thought they used oil more than I'd like it never affected the performance of none of the vehicles. They seemed to drive fine and the engine sounded fine as well. Also I'd like to say I have no mechanical back ground or credits to my name, just relaying my experience with at least 3 vehicles from 3 different manufacturers.

 

[AmishMike]

I started reading this post because I am also losing oil. Then it turned into a flame war.
Just glad this bs is not happening at the pub.
I'm out.
@LiftedrubiconJT PM me if you want. Yes, that is excessive.
?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Our 2009 BMW 328i would using a quart or so between oil changes and BMW said it was normal.

Yes, interestingly, with their usual respected quality, BMW is one of the most vocal companies about saying a quart every thousands isn't going to get you any of their attention.
And yet it's still not right, regardless of what dealers or manufacturers say. Not when I've had multiple vehicles that don't consume a quart between changes, I tow, etc. and I even have a 1994 engine I built that to this day won't consume a quart between changes. My Ford didn't (and I towed a crazy heavy trailer with it) My Chevy trucks didn't, this Jeep truck doesn't, and none of my wife's Jeeps have used a quart between changes (I check her oil any time she takes off for any reason without me. I'd be in deep doo-doo if her Jeep died because of lack of oil!)

They won't deal with it most likely for a few very simple reasons - it's a lot of work, money out of their pocket, and few know how to troubleshoot oil consumption, it will continue to run until it doesn't run for whatever reason.

And yet.............. GM is so concerned that they are developing and have already patented an automatic oil "catch can" for their PCV system - from the factory. (in big part because oil collects on the intake valves and isn't washed away by incoming fuel due to direct injection)
And it's such a big concern that the latest oil specifications - the GF6 spec - addresses what they are calling "low speed pre-ignition" (LSPI) which is a bit misleading because detonation is NOT pre-ignition, but whatever - they are addressing how oil in the combustion chamber causes ping, causes problems. So oil in the chamber is a big deal - changing oil specs to address it, GM's catch can system, aftermarket catch cans, and other devices and methods. It's not a topic to take lightly and ignore and yet the manufacturers and dealers are because it's complex and hard to diagnose (for some, anyway) and expensive to repair. They'd rather let you drive it until it breaks and then fix it.

Oil in the combustion chamber is a cause of detonation. (anyone can look that up)
Regardless of how it gets there, it's problematic. Rings, PCV, valve guides, valve seals, doesn't matter the method getting there, the result is not ideal.

Can you go many tens of thousands of miles, even more? You, sure can - well, most can.
Will it cause you issues, or engine damage? Maybe........... maybe not.
But it's bad for economy - you buy more oil, it's bad for the converter, it can cause ping and engine damage, carbon build-up on valves and heads, and it's just not good.
If it was ok there'd be no new oil spec, no GM catch system, no aftermarket catch cans, etc. But you know how it goes - manufacturers have a $$ stake in it and are betting your engine won't break. It's cheaper to fix those few that do break than to address all those with consumption issues.

IF it was normal, most, if not all, engines would do it.

Let's throw another thing into the mix - what oil are you using?
Oil actually vaporizes at high temperatures. Some oils have a higher threshold for this process. Thermal breakdown.
GENERALLY SPEAKING, but not a hard rule, synthetics have a higher threshold. However, there are conventional oils that have a higher thermal breakdown threshold than some synthetics.
So not ALL synthetics have a higher thermal breakdown threshold - it's just that the best synthetics beat the best conventional oils.

I've seen some say their engines used more oil when towing, under load, speed mattered, and so on. I imagine they are 100% correct. The engine was running hotter in spots and the oil literally vaporized - some being burned.
Don't jump - I didn't mean the cluster display showing engine temp or oil temp was too high - I am saying the bottoms of the pistons, the sheer forces, certain parts of the engine run far far hotter than you'll see in the coolant temp or even oil temp displays. And some oils can't handle it as well. Get the bottom of that piston really hot, perhaps some detonation blowing away the cooler boundary layer in the chamber, the oil hits the bottom side of the piston and exceeds it's thermal breakdown temperature. A hard working engine with a lot of force rod against crankpin is causing really high sheer forces on the oil and it's literally molecule against molecule causing extreme heating of the oil.
All that to say - I agree with those who said theirs used oil during towing or when doing other harder work than typical. I'd call that normal, in a way.

The simple part of it is that it's not common, not "Typical". And, what's it going to hurt to chat nicely with the dealer shop. Talk to them about it, express concerns, tell them you know oil in the chamber can cause detonation and damage. At least let them say "sorry, it's not a problem" or even have it on record if nothing else.
Let them say no, it's only going to cost the trip there and some of your time.

 

[Jeeperjamie]

Yes, interestingly, with their usual respected quality, BMW is one of the most vocal companies about saying a quart every thousands isn't going to get you any of their attention.
And yet it's still not right, regardless of what dealers or manufacturers say. Not when I've had multiple vehicles that don't consume a quart between changes, I tow, etc. and I even have a 1994 engine I built that to this day won't consume a quart between changes. My Ford didn't (and I towed a crazy heavy trailer with it) My Chevy trucks didn't, this Jeep truck doesn't, and none of my wife's Jeeps have used a quart between changes (I check her oil any time she takes off for any reason without me. I'd be in deep doo-doo if her Jeep died because of lack of oil!)

They won't deal with it most likely for a few very simple reasons - it's a lot of work, money out of their pocket, and few know how to troubleshoot oil consumption, it will continue to run until it doesn't run for whatever reason.

And yet.............. GM is so concerned that they are developing and have already patented an automatic oil "catch can" for their PCV system - from the factory. (in big part because oil collects on the intake valves and isn't washed away by incoming fuel due to direct injection)
And it's such a big concern that the latest oil specifications - the GF6 spec - addresses what they are calling "low speed pre-ignition" (LSPI) which is a bit misleading because detonation is NOT pre-ignition, but whatever - they are addressing how oil in the combustion chamber causes ping, causes problems. So oil in the chamber is a big deal - changing oil specs to address it, GM's catch can system, aftermarket catch cans, and other devices and methods. It's not a topic to take lightly and ignore and yet the manufacturers and dealers are because it's complex and hard to diagnose (for some, anyway) and expensive to repair. They'd rather let you drive it until it breaks and then fix it.

Oil in the combustion chamber is a cause of detonation. (anyone can look that up)
Regardless of how it gets there, it's problematic. Rings, PCV, valve guides, valve seals, doesn't matter the method getting there, the result is not ideal.

Can you go many tens of thousands of miles, even more? You, sure can - well, most can.
Will it cause you issues, or engine damage? Maybe........... maybe not.
But it's bad for economy - you buy more oil, it's bad for the converter, it can cause ping and engine damage, carbon build-up on valves and heads, and it's just not good.
If it was ok there'd be no new oil spec, no GM catch system, no aftermarket catch cans, etc. But you know how it goes - manufacturers have a $$ stake in it and are betting your engine won't break. It's cheaper to fix those few that do break than to address all those with consumption issues.

IF it was normal, most, if not all, engines would do it.

Let's throw another thing into the mix - what oil are you using?
Oil actually vaporizes at high temperatures. Some oils have a higher threshold for this process. Thermal breakdown.
GENERALLY SPEAKING, but not a hard rule, synthetics have a higher threshold. However, there are conventional oils that have a higher thermal breakdown threshold than some synthetics.
So not ALL synthetics have a higher thermal breakdown threshold - it's just that the best synthetics beat the best conventional oils.

I've seen some say their engines used more oil when towing, under load, speed mattered, and so on. I imagine they are 100% correct. The engine was running hotter in spots and the oil literally vaporized - some being burned.
Don't jump - I didn't mean the cluster display showing engine temp or oil temp was too high - I am saying the bottoms of the pistons, the sheer forces, certain parts of the engine run far far hotter than you'll see in the coolant temp or even oil temp displays. And some oils can't handle it as well. Get the bottom of that piston really hot, perhaps some detonation blowing away the cooler boundary layer in the chamber, the oil hits the bottom side of the piston and exceeds it's thermal breakdown temperature. A hard working engine with a lot of force rod against crankpin is causing really high sheer forces on the oil and it's literally molecule against molecule causing extreme heating of the oil.
All that to say - I agree with those who said theirs used oil during towing or when doing other harder work than typical. I'd call that normal, in a way.

The simple part of it is that it's not common, not "Typical". And, what's it going to hurt to chat nicely with the dealer shop. Talk to them about it, express concerns, tell them you know oil in the chamber can cause detonation and damage. At least let them say "sorry, it's not a problem" or even have it on record if nothing else.
Let them say no, it's only going to cost the trip there and some of your time.

I agree with everything written and wasn't saying it's good or bad. I suppose it's not good and anyone would rather have it not use oil between changes. Getting a dealership or manufacturer to do something about it would be pretty costly to not worth it. Your also right that it's definitely worth it to say something to the dealership and have your conversation on record with notes. 100% agree in case down the line something does happen

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