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Max Tow Package. Not the value you would think?

PyrPatriot

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Maybe you're joking, but gas doesn't count against your payload. Curb Weight assumes that all fluids are full (including fuel). Also 3 250 lbs passengers wouldn't be very comfortable in a gladiator. Don't know how much a winch weighs, but payload is 1216 lbs on my Rubicon with metal bumpers/spray in liner/hardtop. I'm sure yours is more, but it's not that bad.
You may be right on the curb weight including a full tank of gas. I'll concede that.
We are pretty comfy. More so than in the 4Runners.
I have seen Rubicons with doorjam plates showing payload in the 900lb range. Someone here posted their Rubicon had a 940lb payload on their doorjam. That is why I went with 1100. Some folks reported a bit over 1200lbs, others below 1000lbs. Still not near the 1500-1700lbs on Sport models. My Sport S Max Tow is 1544 (I just round up to 1550 for simplicity) and I saw someone post theirs at a little under 1700 (like 169-something) here a couple years ago on their non-Max Tow.

I get the notion of not wanting to spend an extras $7k plus, but assuming one was interested in the bigger touch screen, decent sound system, proximity door locks, etc. (as I am) the difference is far less and much less of a value.

Also on payload, @250lbs a piece, you and your friends need to lay off the chimichangas...

Joking aside, if you have added 35" tires, sliders/side steps, metal bumper and winch, tonneau, and whatever else - your real payload 'limit' is already much less than what you started with.
Or work out less? Do you even lift bro?

Agreed, that is how I am at 6000lbs on the scales with just me and my family and gear and a full tank of gas. I posted a thread about what I have and what weighs what. Roughly: 110lb rock sliders, 90lb rubber bed mat (yes it will be replaced eventually), 125lb steel bumper and skid, 125lbs winch and plate, 100lbs of gear (tools, jack, air compressor, fluids, etc). So probably a little over 550lbs before occupants. Great, still have just under 1000lbs on my vehicle for people, tents/rack/etc. My 35" tires weigh 38lbs more than stock tires, that is an extra 190lbs across 5 tires, so 6000 becomes roughly 5800, so 450lbs of GVWR left. Matches up pretty close to my estimates on payload remaining after everyone and everything is accounted for. I could move 200lbs of gear into a trailer and have 650lbs of payload left, just perfect for a 6000lbs trailer, 80% of tow rating (which is fine according to some folks, we don't have large mountains here in KY and most highways I go on are 55mpg, I would probably not go above 5000lbs on a loaded trailer personally)

The Sport S has a posted curb weight of 4672lbs, the Rubicon is 5072lbs. Both have a 6250lb GVWR, but with only a 400lb curb weight difference they have about a 40% difference in payload and 10-27% difference in towing.

So for people who need that extra weight capability for their lifestyle, yes. It's just a silly thing that if we had gotten a Rubicon (no Mojave when we bought) we'd likely not even have any capacity left for groceries and stay within the GVWR. Yes, I could free up about 250lbs by removing gear, bed mat, etc. Luckily I do not have to, because I have MAX TOW (barbaric roar in the background)

Now, to the topic originally focused on in OP: value. A few grand DOES seem diminished at this point, but really the Max Tow does still hold a value difference of $5k-7.5k. A Sport S Max Tow with the features I'd want (color, cold weather, aux group, trail rails, Alpine audio, SelecTrack full time AWD, rails, hard top, decal) is $51,835. A Rubicon with similar options (color, decal, hard top, tow package, auxillary group, cold weather, color matched fender flares, Rocktrack full time AWD) is $57,960, a $6,125 difference. Oh and color-matched fender flares on a Rubicon are extra but come included with Sport S? And there's no option for the step-assist rock rails on a Rubicon but are for Sport and Mojave? Anyway, $6k is not worth the transfer case and lockers feature. No decal feature for Mojave? Anyway Mojave comes to $58,610, a $6775 difference.

I also posted why I think the real-world applications of the JT's towing may be higher.
https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...-is-underrating-the-max-tow-capability.25103/
https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...-than-sticker-outside-of-the-mountains.28052/

And discussions on changes to GVWR or towing with axle upgrades
https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...rease-from-axle-and-suspension-upgrade.28924/

I do thoroughly enjoy such discussions. No animosity or criticism is intended, hard to tell sometimes with typed text.
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PyrPatriot

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But you get that nice cushy ride haha. It's definitely all a tradeoff.
I considered trading in for a Mojave to help my wife with her back and hip injuries after my JT got T-boned. But she loves that this is our first family vehicle and our first Jeep and gave up wheeling instead.

Fun fact NachoRuby, that color makes my wife irrationally angry. She absolutely HATES it. She won't even acknowledge a Nacho Jeep. I like it, almost got a Punkin Orange but the Sting Grey was significantly cheaper and equipped more to what I wanted.
 

NachoRuby

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I do thoroughly enjoy such discussions. No animosity or criticism is intended, hard to tell sometimes with typed text.
Agreed
Fun fact NachoRuby, that color makes my wife irrationally angry.
It looks nearly identical to a school bus haha. Almost exactly the same, but glossier. Also used to be called Dozer on JKs and School Bus Yellow on Rams, incidentally
 

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While playing around with the current Build & Price (I know this isn't 100% accurate - but good enough for this discussion) I wanted to get reactions and thoughts to some observations and questions. Honestly, I am still trying to settle on the specs for a custom order and this post is not meant to be a bash on one trim over another. (*All prices listed below are as of the date of the original post per Jeep.com).

First, I want to start by framing that this comparison relates solely to the Sport S Trim and the Max Tow Package vs the other trim options that offer the 4.10 gearing (I am really between the Sport S Max Tow and Mojave, but will include the Rubicon here as well). All builds below are in the color white without any additional selections made other than noted.

Second, for my purposes, I am not interested in the base Sport trim and it is not part of the below run-down. I will acknowledge that a bare bones Gladiator Sport with the Max Tow package can be selected for $40,625 versus the cheapest, *low options Mojave and Rubicon (except automatic trans ,since that is a prerequisite of Max Tow, and the Trailer-Tow Package, since well... figure that one out on your own...) which starts at $51,515 for both Rubi and Mojave. Now, while I understand the argument of the Sport buyers that you would not want to be 'forced' to pay for options you don't want or need, it is not fair to even compare the price difference between the base Sport Max Tow and the Rubicon/Mojave given all of the missing kit, let alone basic comforts and features standard on a <$15k Mitsubishi Mirage.

Also, I understand that there is a reduction in 'legal' payload and towing capacity - but with the Rubicon at 7K towing and Mojave at 6k in these baseline configurations, we are in the ballpark of what should be done with these mid-sized trucks anyway, as well as the fact (as will be explained more below) the smallish tires and lower ride height are something that many (and certainly me) change out / upgrade which while it would not be reflected on the door sticker - would lower the theoretical max GVWR and towing/payload.

The other point I want to make before jumping in is that this comparison is not meant to consider the person who would truly tear down the gladiator for a 'fully built' monster with 37" + tires, etc. and all that would entail. I would consider the max of any future upgrades being that middle ground of no more than 35" tires and retaining normal/stock wheels, driveshafts, steering unit, gears, etc, - all of which should be reasonably supported by either of the 3 baseline options without substantial mods.

On to the actual value comparison. So the starting point here is a Sport S Max Tow - which starts at $44,025. The Rubicon/Mojave baselines (criteria explained above) are $51,515, but this is not an apples-to-apples comparison. The Rubicon/Mojave include the 8.4-inch screen and other things which are not in the Sport S without adding the 8.4-Inch Radio and Premium Audio Group, Convenience Group, and Technology Group (must add all in the configurator) which brings the true price of the baseline comparison to $47,910 for the Sport S Max Tow with those options checked. This is a $3,605 difference between the Rubicon/Mojave and the Sport S Max Tow in the baseline comparisons (more thoughts on more fully optioned comparisons below).

Now - the big question is what all extras do you get in the Rubicon/Mojave for that $3,605 difference and is it worth it?

Please chime in on what I am missing here, but lets add in all of the 'extras'. Also, I acknowledge that the Max Tow does come with the LSD which is sub'd for the lockers below and the difference in springs - is there anything else that you would get on a Max Tow but not the comparable baseline Rubicon/Mojave? (Also, I am leaving off some of the purely cosmetic stuff like the red dash in the rubicon, red/oranage accents and sticking, and stickers/badges are those are subjective and aside from the 'look at me factor' minimal 'true' value difference):

For Rubicon: Front & Rear Electronic Lockers, Off Road +, disconnecting sway bars, lift, better shocks, 33" Tires and better rims, high clearance fenders, metal rear bumper and extra recovery hooks, vented/bulged hood, better seats, soft touch dash and door cards, lighted footwells, rock rails & bed sliders, Molle setbacks.

For Mojave: Rear Electronic Locker, Off Road +, lift, 33" Tires and better rims; high clearance fenders, different bumpers with extra recovery hooks, hood scoop hood, THAT SUSPENSION, cast iron knuckles, better seats, better steering wheel, soft touch dash and door cards, lighted footwells, rock rails, Molle setbacks.

Adding the stuff above up to me seems like well more than $3,605 worth of value. And judging by the seemingly majority of Max Tow owners on this forum who immediately (or shortly thereafter) replace at least the existing tires (which are puny and look awkward on the Gladiator period) and add something to at least cover the unsightly pinch seams under the doors, the delta is really far less...

Now apart from even the baseline comparisons outlined above, when you more fully option up the baseline Gladiators, a similar story unfolds, but the price difference grows a little bit. There are also some odd Jeep packaging idioms - like the fact that on the Sport S Max Tow - you can only get body colored fender flares when you add the LED light package (which really bothers me) and keep in mind you can only order the forward facing trail cam with the Rubi/Mojave (just not with the gloss black grill for whatever reason).

Curiously, when more fully optioning up the baselines (adding the following: Black Freedom 3-Piece Hard Top; Adaptive Cruise; Aux Switches; Cold Weather Group; Active Safety Group; LED Headlights; Trail Rail Management; Spray in Bedliner; Selec-Trac/Rock-Trac Full time) the price difference grows to $5,100 with $55,550 for the Sport S Max Tow and $60,450 for Rubi/Mojave (think this is due to the Popular Equipment Package on the Sport S which cuts a brake on the hard top given that we already added the Radio, Tech, and Convenience packages to the initial example).

The question would still remain, whether all of the 'extra' kit is worth it on the Rubi/Mojave? Clearly, it would be cost prohibitive from a value perspective to add all the features of Rubi/Mojave on a part-for-part basis to the Sport S Max Tow (for these purposes we have to include applicable labor charges as not everyone can DIY and even wrenching-it-yourself has lost opportunity costs that would need to factor in) - but what about just a Mopar lift, larger tires, and simple rock rails/sliders?

Even there just using example numbers, I think we are talking about $4k in 'upgrades' to the Sport S Max Tow to just get the stance of the truck similar.

Appreciate the thoughts.
Tha MaxTow package may have diminished value for folks buying higher ( more expensive ) packages that also double up on what comes from the Max Tow package. BUT on a Sport for those on e limited budget or that don't need, want, can't afford or choose not to afford the higher packages, the Max Tow package is and was one the of the best basic Jeep upgrade packages out there in many years. In my opinion.

Look back 2-3-4 Wrangler generations (JK, TJ, TJ-L, YJ and CJ) and that that Max Tow Package would have been a big seller even then. I love my under $40K (before T and T) Sport with Sport S options and Max Tow.
 

DTJB

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What a coincidence, I built a truck identical to mine on the build website last night... however msrp was $6000 more than what I paid for my truck total.... and I didn’t get a smoking deal.... have the prices came up that far? I have a Max Tow that was $42k flat otd.
 

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The Duck of Earl

The Duck of Earl

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Or work out less? Do you even lift bro?
Good point! Need to work on that a bit myself...

I do thoroughly enjoy such discussions. No animosity or criticism is intended, hard to tell sometimes with typed text.
The payload conundrum is interesting for sure. But the way I see it, with a Gladiator I am not really going to use it as a 'work' truck. As I think about it today and what I have coming up, I don't see myself getting a bucket of gravel, or similar, dumped in the back (I'll just pay for the delivery charge in those cases and save myself the time and headache that comes with messing up the truck for such runs). Just finished a bunch of home projects with my current beater truck and never thought twice about the load going in, no matter how dirty or close to payload it might have been.

For just running lumber, furniture, and recreational pursuits, I can't see myself ever really being in the position where I would need or care to add up the weights. I don't think Jeep does either. I am pretty sure ALL of the upcoming (and past) easter safari builds, when adding in 4 adults and their associated backcountry/recreational gear, will be over the 'theoretical' payloads based on the factory ratings.

For towing, sometimes I pull a boat that is just too much for a 'std' suv rating (like a JL). Any of the 4.10 axel trims would make short work of it, and probably the others too, but I always have bought as much gear as is on offer for trucks.

Really, the 4.10 axels to me pay off in the off the line responsiveness and ability to run 33"-35" tires without becoming a slug. Would love if Jeep would offer the 4.56 or 4.88s as an option just for fun (even though I would never have bigger than 35s). I don't care about day-to-day hi-way mileage for this vehicle, since for me daily gas consumption is minimal, and I view the gas costs for long trips to get somewhere fun just part of the cost of the excursion.
 
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glassjawkid32

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Good point! Need to work on that a bit myself...



The payload conundrum is interesting for sure. But the way I see it, with a Gladiator I am not really going to use it as a 'work' truck. As I think about it today and what I have coming up, I don't see myself getting a bucket of gravel, or similar, dumped in the back (I'll just pay for the delivery charge in those cases and save myself the time and headache that comes with messing up the truck for such runs). Just finished a bunch of home projects with my current beater truck and never thought twice about the load going in, no matter how dirty or close to payload it might have been.

For just running lumber, furniture, and recreational pursuits, I can't see myself ever really being in the position where I would need or care to add up the weights. I don't think Jeep does either. I am pretty sure ALL of the upcoming (and past) easter safari builds, when adding in 4 adults and their associated backcountry/recreational gear, will be over the 'theoretical' payloads based on the factory ratings.

For towing, sometimes I pull a boat that is just too much for a 'std' suv rating (like a JL). Any of the 4.10 axel trims would make short work of it, and probably the others too, but I always have bought as much gear as is on offer for trucks.

Really, the 4.10 axels to me pay off in the off the line responsiveness and ability to run 33"-35" tires without becoming a slug. Would love if Jeep would offer the 4.56 or 4.88s as an option just for fun (even though I would never have bigger than 35s). I don't care about day-to-day hi-way mileage for this vehicle, since for me daily gas consumption is minimal, and I view the gas costs for long trips to get somewhere fun just part of the cost of the excursion.
I bought the max tow package for the gears and brakes, rolling on the 35s after reading countless threads about how it drives just like stock, blah blah blah. IMO it's not even close to stock. It's not a slug but I'm definitely going to regear at some point.
 

jeventures

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I think the best thing about Jeep is the ability to get the trim and options that suit your needs. I don’t think you save much money trying to add options to lower trims to get close to a higher trim. They did a pretty good job of pricing trim and options in my opinion. Just decide what you will do with the truck and get the trim/options that match that and your budget. As for max tow vs rubi - From what I’ve seen in owners with pragmatism and experience in these trucks, a max tow truck is better for full time overlanding or frequent towing beyond half the rating while a rubicon is better for part time (lower weight) overlanding and some harder wheeling. That’s what made my decision to go with a rubicon…what I will use it for. Of course, putting more money into mods you can just a about turn an apple into an orange with these Lego trucks. Lol.
 

Blade1668

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Careful OP, you're about to step on a live wire. The Max Tow package guys here are a mite touchy. :LOL: :LOL:
Yep LOL

"Uparms"
I almost forgot the Metric Ton MJ like a dumb ass that didn't know then, it came with a rear D44 LSD axle.

This thread is like bailing water out of Lake Michigan and dumping in to Lake Champlain to empty one.

The choice of a Max-Tow vs Rubicon or Mojave really is personal choice of needs and wants. Mine is a D.D. not towing every week but I didn't want many things that comes with a Rubicon. A big one is I'm a tightwad and don't want to give more money to the State every year for tags AKA Value Added Taxes each year. Next I didn't need or want upgraded stereo with more stuff that could fail. Cargo/towing came next with likelihood of better MPG, I fully expected to get a shell and to haul a bunch of stuff all the time.
Now if I didn't have my T.T. 2 boats and 4wheeler to drag around and did have something else for a D.D. plus trails to run every weekend I'd have got a Rubicon or a Mojave. But I've got 4 other Jeeps too. When I got my LJ if it had been a Rubicon in the first 5 years of ownership I could have added locked D44 front axle, rear locker and T-case for what I would have spent on tags. When I add lockers to my JT it will probably cost me 5k if I pay someone to do installing 3-3.5k if I do it. Now another problem is most dealers don't stock base Rubicons or Mojaves model plus they stack on fluff for premium. "Fabric protection" ect.

At the end of the day buy what you want not what some unknown A@@@@@@ on the WWW says. Damn if Jeep would have dropped the 396 in a JT I'd been hooked and in debt just from driving to work. :crying:
 

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I bought the max tow package for the gears and brakes, rolling on the 35s after reading countless threads about how it drives just like stock, blah blah blah. IMO it's not even close to stock. It's not a slug but I'm definitely going to regear at some point.
I ran a sport s maxtow for 40k miles with 35x12.5r17s on stock wheels. On the flat ground we got closer to 18mpg. In the hills I got an average of 14.5 mpg. Clearly 4.10s arent enough for the little v6. I recently traded for a sport s diesel and get closer to 25mpg. The diesel doesnt even know the tires changed once its into boost. It just goes.

I would argue that the money spent on a "max tow" would be better spent moving to the diesel engine. The "max tow" may tow more on paper but im telling you the diesel is on another level of power and responsiveness. It makes gear changes moot.
 
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The Duck of Earl

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Worth posting, but I had never really looked at the Altitude Trim, but apparently when adding the Max Tow there, on a fully optioned hard top the price difference between a Rubi/Mojave and the Altitude Max Tow grows to almost $7k.

Odd to me that when configuring an equivalently nicely spec'd Sport S Max Tow and Altitude Max Tow, the Altitude is more than $2k less, and they really are the same truck.
 

PyrPatriot

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Yep LOL

"Uparms"
I almost forgot the Metric Ton MJ like a dumb ass that didn't know then, it came with a rear D44 LSD axle.

This thread is like bailing water out of Lake Michigan and dumping in to Lake Champlain to empty one.

The choice of a Max-Tow vs Rubicon or Mojave really is personal choice of needs and wants. Mine is a D.D. not towing every week but I didn't want many things that comes with a Rubicon. A big one is I'm a tightwad and don't want to give more money to the State every year for tags AKA Value Added Taxes each year. Next I didn't need or want upgraded stereo with more stuff that could fail. Cargo/towing came next with likelihood of better MPG, I fully expected to get a shell and to haul a bunch of stuff all the time.
Now if I didn't have my T.T. 2 boats and 4wheeler to drag around and did have something else for a D.D. plus trails to run every weekend I'd have got a Rubicon or a Mojave. But I've got 4 other Jeeps too. When I got my LJ if it had been a Rubicon in the first 5 years of ownership I could have added locked D44 front axle, rear locker and T-case for what I would have spent on tags. When I add lockers to my JT it will probably cost me 5k if I pay someone to do installing 3-3.5k if I do it. Now another problem is most dealers don't stock base Rubicons or Mojaves model plus they stack on fluff for premium. "Fabric protection" ect.

At the end of the day buy what you want not what some unknown A@@@@@@ on the WWW says. Damn if Jeep would have dropped the 396 in a JT I'd been hooked and in debt just from driving to work. :crying:
The discussion was not vigorous due to a claim of one trim/option being better than another, it was OP's claim and invitation to comment on the Max Tow not being a good value anymore along with this perceived diminished value being made less so because what little value the package retained was almost entirely negated by the inferior truck performance of the Mojave and Rubicon, that JT owners should not be towing or hauling so much as to warrant the extra towing and payload offered by Max Tow and instead get a "real truck". This was then followed by a near-advocacy level of verbiage regarding disregarding lawful limits imposed on the vehicle
 

PyrPatriot

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I ran a sport s maxtow for 40k miles with 35x12.5r17s on stock wheels. On the flat ground we got closer to 18mpg. In the hills I got an average of 14.5 mpg. Clearly 4.10s arent enough for the little v6. I recently traded for a sport s diesel and get closer to 25mpg. The diesel doesnt even know the tires changed once its into boost. It just goes.

I would argue that the money spent on a "max tow" would be better spent moving to the diesel engine. The "max tow" may tow more on paper but im telling you the diesel is on another level of power and responsiveness. It makes gear changes moot.
Increased cost of maintenance, repairs, a more problematic engine, and $4k additional cost all while legally restricting what you can tow are not worth gas savings even at todays costs. My humble opinion
 

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And a fun note, I bought max tow for all the upgrades as Jeep enhancements, I rarely pull a 5X8 tractor supply garden trailer with brush and weeds. Towing was not my reason to purchase. Dual wide track Gen3 Danas, 4.10s and higher capacity alternator and cooling., class IV hitch. That 999.00 package was no brainer for me.
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