Pentastar power increase

[Flyin6]

Some may argue, however, I feel strongly that the Pentastar needs a power increase. More to the point, for those of us (Many I suspect) who want to have the opportunity to add some power if we determine we have a need or desire for such.

Adding a Hemi which costs as much as another Gladiator is NOT the answer. In my opinion, it is stupidly expensive and tosses out all the good features of the V6 that we already enjoy. Things like less weight and better gas mileage are tossed right out the window. Further, how many people have an extra $40-$45K to do a Hemi swap, when for $8K-$10K one could find another 100HP and be happy? I bet that there is a huge number of us who would go for something that would add 50-75 HP that was reasonably priced.

I have been writing back and forth with Livernois Performance about what can be done for the owners of the -5 computer in terms of increasing power.

Here is a copy of my last correspondence:


Hunter,

A couple thousand is expensive to mill two V6 cyl heads, but I also appreciate that these are not LS/LT castings where everyone and his brother have developed a CNC profile.

The Hemi is great, and I would buy it in a skinny second if it didn't cost as much as a new Gladiator.

No, the key is to develop power from the existing power plant. And there are a million of us who won't spring for a 45K Hemi but would easily pay $8K blower or turbo. I think you guys are missing the message here. The key and the smartest thing to do is to crack the code and be able to program this new computer. Heck maybe even find a way to replace the spec-5 computer with the older spec-2 unit that would open the door to options. Honestly, I can't understand why there is no interest in programming the newer computer.

I tune my supercharged Suburban myself with HP tuners, and I taught myself from scratch how to do that. If it were not pure rocket science to crack the code in the new Mopar computer, I'd dive into it headfirst. Then I'd sell you folks tuning rights and watch my bank account swell to bursting.

I am hearing you say you probably have no CNC programs for the heads. You didn't even mention cams, so my bet is you folks have not looked at that either. Heck, Maserati uses this engine as well and should have a bunch of more aggressive cam profiles. The bottom line is that it seems you folks do not have much interest in this motor. That is not a harsh nor critical observation, just the conclusion that I draw from your and others' responses and after looking over your website.

I sincerely wish it was other, and that you folks had the vision to see this huge market which is essentially ignored. Thanks for the response...

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[TheDerb]

Can you explain to me why you want more power? I’ve driven Tacomas. I’ve driven Rangers. They have similar power, and have similar tow/payload ratings. It’s a midsize truck. If you want more power, why not just get a full size truck?

I’ve never once been anywhere in my gladiator where the power limited anything I want to do.

Are you just interested in being more zippy while you take your brick shaped truck down the highway? Are you interested in towing more? Cause if that’s the case, you still aren’t going to just magically be able to toss a 10,000lb load on a trailer and be able to pull it.

I’d sincerely like you to help me understand why there is a need for more power in this truck.

 

[Dickster]

Can you explain to me why you want more power? I’ve driven Tacomas. I’ve driven Rangers. They have similar power, and have similar tow/payload ratings. It’s a midsize truck. If you want more power, why not just get a full size truck?

I’ve never once been anywhere in my gladiator where the power limited anything I want to do.

Are you just interested in being more zippy while you take your brick shaped truck down the highway? Are you interested in towing more? Cause if that’s the case, you still aren’t going to just magically be able to toss a 10,000lb load on a trailer and be able to pull it.

I’d sincerely like you to help me understand why there is a need for more power in this truck.

Smiles per mile and I have testicles, everything needs more power.

 

[Flyin6]

Power requirements are highly subjective when it comes to things like these trucks. Other than the requirement for a MilSpec or performance number for things like aircraft the actual power required is something based on a myriad of factors.

Having said that, I now have accumulated a bunch of experience with this cool truck. I have never been limited by power on any off-road occasion which I now have a bunch of experience. I have wheeled in many states down to sea level and up to nearly touching 13,000 feet. All of that:GTG

Now getting to and from these places over, I'm guessing is 20+ states, I/we just don't have the power to cruise effectively above the mid-60s. My configuration (lifted on 37's with an RTT) is draggy, but the gearing is spot on (5.13's). But when trying to set the cruise control to 70-71-72, the darned thing is constantly shifting down to 5th then back up to 8th. I find it excessively annoying.

More power would fix this. How do I know?

I also drive an overland Suburban 2500. It has a 6.0 V8 that is modified and has a supercharger. I can stick it on any speed up to nearly 80 with the cruise control and it just pulls in OD all the time. No fussy shifting all over the place. The reason is the motor produces around 550 torque to the tire (Dyno tested) and has that big ole abundance.

This thread is not meant to be an indictment on "my need for power", or "why I need more power." It is meant to stimulate a discussion about developing more power from this motor and why, exactly, the aftermarket is ignoring it.

 

[Flyin6]

Let's see what Livernois Motorsports comes up with as far as a concrete response to my request. Hunter, over there seems to be on the ball so maybe we can find out something solid:


Hey Don,

I’ll check with the engineers to see if we have any parts available to build the V6 Gladiator motor like you mentioned. As far as the computer goes, we’d love to be able to tune the GPEC-5 computers in the newer vehicles that Chrysler makes, but they have a stronger encryption on it so it’s taking a lot longer to crack it. Same goes for the 2023 EcoBoost motors, they changed the encryption to a much stronger encryption and we have to swap ECMs to tune them.

-Hunter

 

[Mr._Bill]

The aftermarket is ignoring it because there is not enough demand to justify the expense.

I have plenty of power to accomplish everything I need to do. I can cruise along at 80mph with no issues, and have easily hit over 95mph passing other vehicles on two lane highways. Like many of the Gladiator owners that buy and never visit forums like this, I drive a mostly stock Overland.

 

[Escape.idiocracy]

Some may argue, however, I feel strongly that the Pentastar needs a power increase. More to the point, for those of us (Many I suspect) who want to have the opportunity to add some power if we determine we have a need or desire for such.

Adding a Hemi which costs as much as another Gladiator is NOT the answer. In my opinion, it is stupidly expensive and tosses out all the good features of the V6 that we already enjoy. Things like less weight and better gas mileage are tossed right out the window. Further, how many people have an extra $40-$45K to do a Hemi swap, when for $8K-$10K one could find another 100HP and be happy? I bet that there is a huge number of us who would go for something that would add 50-75 HP that was reasonably priced.

I have been writing back and forth with Livernois Performance about what can be done for the owners of the -5 computer in terms of increasing power.

Here is a copy of my last correspondence:


Hunter,

A couple thousand is expensive to mill two V6 cyl heads, but I also appreciate that these are not LS/LT castings where everyone and his brother have developed a CNC profile.

The Hemi is great, and I would buy it in a skinny second if it didn't cost as much as a new Gladiator.

No, the key is to develop power from the existing power plant. And there are a million of us who won't spring for a 45K Hemi but would easily pay $8K blower or turbo. I think you guys are missing the message here. The key and the smartest thing to do is to crack the code and be able to program this new computer. Heck maybe even find a way to replace the spec-5 computer with the older spec-2 unit that would open the door to options. Honestly, I can't understand why there is no interest in programming the newer computer.

I tune my supercharged Suburban myself with HP tuners, and I taught myself from scratch how to do that. If it were not pure rocket science to crack the code in the new Mopar computer, I'd dive into it headfirst. Then I'd sell you folks tuning rights and watch my bank account swell to bursting.

I am hearing you say you probably have no CNC programs for the heads. You didn't even mention cams, so my bet is you folks have not looked at that either. Heck, Maserati uses this engine as well and should have a bunch of more aggressive cam profiles. The bottom line is that it seems you folks do not have much interest in this motor. That is not a harsh nor critical observation, just the conclusion that I draw from your and others' responses and after looking over your website.

I sincerely wish it was other, and that you folks had the vision to see this huge market which is essentially ignored. Thanks for the response...

Jeep gave you the answer… came in a 3.0 variation… ??‍

 

[Chaos Theory]

Yeah, while I also feel the 3.6 is underpowered (IF you have mods, like many of us do), you really can't squeeze more unless you add a turbo. As someone who has had and been forced to replace turbos in pretty much every car I've had, this was the first vehicle I've owned since the 90's without one. And one of the 3 major appeals to me about this engine.

Turbos will fail. Tomorrow, next week ...2 years from now when you're 1000 miles from home--the only thing you know is that there is a hidden countdown on when.

It's a trade off. Naturally-aspirated, theoretically more reliable, underpowered and inefficient or, turbo-powered ring every ounce out of the current engine and wait for it to 'splode. *shrugs*

 

[chorky]

The aftermarket is ignoring it because there is not enough demand to justify the expense.

I wonder though also if some engineers have looked into it and maybe deemed the engine is not capable of producing more without serious consequences like a shortened life or critical failure. Maybe the internal components or even engine casting itself is not suitable for more stress and strain?

 

[TheDerb]

I have never been limited by power on any off-road occasion which I now have a bunch of experience. I have wheeled in many states down to sea level and up to nearly touching 13,000 feet. All of that:GTG

You answered your own question about why shops don't mess with the engine. You yourself took a vehicle that is incredible at off-roading, added a bunch of AEV upgrades, threw it on tires that no other vehicle on the road can drive on, put a lift on it, and are now asking a shop why they aren't interested in "making a mint" by upgrading the engine so that on-road manners are better. It's sort of an Uncle Rico/ Throw the football over the mountain type of letter. YOU did it on a Suburban, so surely a bunch of guys at a great shop would love to just print money by doing it themselves, right?

You're sort of overlooking the fact that most people will only put a certain amount of money into their Jeeps- and you've already exceeded that amount probably 5-fold for the average Jeep owner. With mods that have nothing to do with engine power. After exhausting the upgrades you can do, you want engine power. So, perfectly valid. But, if most people- yourself included- reach for bolt on performance and cosmetic improvements first, why would a shop put money into improving the engine when so few people get to that level?

 

[Mr._Bill]

I wonder though also if some engineers have looked into it and maybe deemed the engine is not capable of producing more without serious consequences like a shortened life or critical failure. Maybe the internal components or even engine casting itself is not suitable for more stress and strain?

This is what some have discovered, after adding superchargers. The engine can do more, but you have to be careful about it. There is a reasonable amount that can be added by adjusting the tune, but unlocking the computer is very difficult with the current model being used. You also need someone who knows and understands the whole tuning model and where all the adjustments need to be made. The one person, regularly posting here, that understands and did tuning, appears to have greatly pulled back his efforts in this area.

 

[sl65racer]

Most of us build these trucks for overland/crawling where i want torque down low In the rpm range. A Maserati street car driver will want torque high up in the rpm range to make more hp at redline. I see that as a fundamental disconnect. I don’t want to crawl at redline. If I were to do anything it would be a blower adding a few extra psi. But then it would add complexity that I wouldn‘t want deep on a trail. It’s a conundrum. I’m already planning for a Cummins swap…

 

[Jersey]

All the Mid-size pickup trucks are under powered. They all need more power to carry their payload and pull their towing capacity.

 

[KevinM60]

What about the I6 Hurricane?
The retrofit would cost and I remember reading about a shorter version in development but I can’t remember the name of the engine.

 

[GeneralMaximus]

Yeah, while I also feel the 3.6 is underpowered (IF you have mods, like many of us do), you really can't squeeze more unless you add a turbo. As someone who has had and been forced to replace turbos in pretty much every car I've had, this was the first vehicle I've owned since the 90's without one. And one of the 3 major appeals to me about this engine.

Turbos will fail. Tomorrow, next week ...2 years from now when you're 1000 miles from home--the only thing you know is that there is a hidden countdown on when.

It's a trade off. Naturally-aspirated, theoretically more reliable, underpowered and inefficient or, turbo-powered ring every ounce out of the current engine and wait for it to 'splode. *shrugs*

Precisely why none of my vehicles have turbos. I prefer NA motors, always have and always will.

If I feel an itch for instant acceleration, I will drive the Tesla. If its handling on the twisty roads I want, then I’ll grab the Porsche keys. My gladiator is an offroad truck.

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