Pentastar power increase

[Duece McCracken]

Well, I'm all about tinkering.

I normally go pretty balls out with modding, tuning, datalogging, etc.

This is an offroad truck though. So theres several things I'd rather not do.

With cross country travel in mind, I'd rather not tune it for 93. Granted, depending on the interface, may be easy enough to flash back, but then I'd have to run the tank out once or twice with 93 again before swapping back to a 93 map.

Turbo. Again, very octane dependant. Rather not blow her up on some shitty mountain fuel on a trail.

Hemi swap. Hell yes! Costs a fortune though. So not anytime soon for me.

Diesel swap, well this intrigues me greatly, but only if I can have a manual trans.


So, if the peak torque in the pentastar can be dropped much lower, and the overall HP increased a fair amount, I'd be willing to crack open the engine a bit. Cams and a new intake manifold, with maybe a bigger TB. If these parts existed to make the desired powerband changes. Would have to tune, get a 87, 93, and 91 map to cover cross country travel. Raising compression would be cool, but now octane can be an issue. So too far.

Would want to try an upgrade any valvetrain parts that seem to fail while Im in there, lifters/rollers wise.

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[Jteakus]

I don't have a 3.6 engine in my JT or JL (diesels) but we have a fleet of Promasters at work. They are a PITA to work on and I don't know if they are geared differently in the transmission but they pull really well.

 

[Dickster]

Once my buddy gets his procharger dealer status finalized I will get getting one installed. If I run into motor issues I'll tear down and rebuild. Everyone loves a v8 swap but I can't bring myself to drop $40k. I do believe the 3.6 has potential to be built but too many other simpler options besides a little elbow grease.

 

[Volt0]

Yeah, I wish I had a touch more torque, but not by some crazy amount; mainly for driving with bigger tires/acceleration/interstate. Off-road has been quite good. I don’t feel like adding a supercharger until/unless the internals are upgraded to handle it. What exactly would be the weight difference, from the standard V6/tranny or to an LS swap or LT swap? Would it be more than 100lbs net? Ppl add more weight than that with bumpers, winches, skids, and gear.

I haven’t done a lot of homework on the matter, but I would be probably be interested in an LT swap when this thing croaks, even if that means that I perform a good part of the labor.

 

[Flyin6]

Can you explain to me why you want more power? I’ve driven Tacomas. I’ve driven Rangers. They have similar power, and have similar tow/payload ratings. It’s a midsize truck. If you want more power, why not just get a full size truck?

I’ve never once been anywhere in my gladiator where the power limited anything I want to do.

Are you just interested in being more zippy while you take your brick shaped truck down the highway? Are you interested in towing more? Cause if that’s the case, you still aren’t going to just magically be able to toss a 10,000lb load on a trailer and be able to pull it.

I’d sincerely like you to help me understand why there is a need for more power in this truck.

Purchase a full-sized truck? Take a look at my vehicle list in my signature. I have a 1 ton Ram. It does not nor is designed to do what I do with the Gladiator. Although I did see full-sized trucks going up and over Engineer pass and down the Corkscrew, I thought those guys were nuts!

Tacoma's, Rangers, Martian rovers, and moon vehicles: All are irrelevant to this discussion. The question is really about how to get the aftermarket to respond to our need for more power. You may be satisfied with the power output, but tens of thousands of others may just enjoy having a bit more.

Unlike you, I have needed more on every single highway trip I have taken. Everywhere on the highway that I have driven and it's now a lot of open road, I have always wanted more to keep the motor from downshifting and screaming to make enough juice.

I do not tow with mine. I am actually in the process of removing the tow bar assembly.

Not sure if that helps you understand why I need more power as you are looking at it through the lens of what you require for power. This is an objective discussion, not any kind of comparison.

Hope that helps you understand the purpose of the thread.

 

[Flyin6]

Yeah, while I also feel the 3.6 is underpowered (IF you have mods, like many of us do), you really can't squeeze more unless you add a turbo. As someone who has had and been forced to replace turbos in pretty much every car I've had, this was the first vehicle I've owned since the 90's without one. And one of the 3 major appeals to me about this engine.

Turbos will fail. Tomorrow, next week ...2 years from now when you're 1000 miles from home--the only thing you know is that there is a hidden countdown on when.

It's a trade off. Naturally-aspirated, theoretically more reliable, underpowered and inefficient or, turbo-powered ring every ounce out of the current engine and wait for it to 'splode. *shrugs*

I would personally go for a solid performance tune, then if that didn't prevent the downshifting all the time, then a supercharger. I have had turbos in trucks for 30+ years with not one failure and I drive a supercharged LS Suburban. Same-same, no failures. I guess I'm lucky.

Now on the flip side I fly helos and jets and the motors in those things are just big turbos and I have had one or two of them come apart on me...

 

[Flyin6]

You answered your own question about why shops don't mess with the engine. You yourself took a vehicle that is incredible at off-roading, added a bunch of AEV upgrades, threw it on tires that no other vehicle on the road can drive on, put a lift on it, and are now asking a shop why they aren't interested in "making a mint" by upgrading the engine so that on-road manners are better. It's sort of an Uncle Rico/ Throw the football over the mountain type of letter. YOU did it on a Suburban, so surely a bunch of guys at a great shop would love to just print money by doing it themselves, right?

You're sort of overlooking the fact that most people will only put a certain amount of money into their Jeeps- and you've already exceeded that amount probably 5-fold for the average Jeep owner. With mods that have nothing to do with engine power. After exhausting the upgrades you can do, you want engine power. So, perfectly valid. But, if most people- yourself included- reach for bolt on performance and cosmetic improvements first, why would a shop put money into improving the engine when so few people get to that level?

OK, point of order here. I did not buy a vehicle and added a bunch of AEV parts. This is a factory AEV vehicle. It came with the 37" tires. To the point about cost, my JT probably cost more at delivery than one that was purchased and then modified piecemeal. I believe if you chat with the AEV folks they will disagree with your assessment of poor road manners or having tires that no vehicle should have. I think the 37" tire is the ideal tire for this truck.
All I want to do is to shed light on the lack of programming for the newer -5 computers. Now tuning a vehicle that could yield 50 HP would only cost in the $500 range and I'd wager that a ton of folks would go for that. And I think a fair number of people like me would go further with superchargers like they once did.
No, I think the problem with zero-performance upgrades lies more in the difficulty in being able to tune the new computer.
And, finally, I did not really want to get into the mud discussing why "I" want more performance, but just to focus on the performance aspect.

 

[Flyin6]

The aftermarket is ignoring it because there is not enough demand to justify the expense.

I have plenty of power to accomplish everything I need to do. I can cruise along at 80mph with no issues, and have easily hit over 95mph passing other vehicles on two lane highways. Like many of the Gladiator owners that buy and never visit forums like this, I drive a mostly stock Overland.

I may beg to differ here. If one were to crack the programming nut on the spec-5 computer, would you not be interested in 50 more horsepower for $500-$1,000?

 

[Flyin6]

Precisely why none of my vehicles have turbos. I prefer NA motors, always have and always will.

If I feel an itch for instant acceleration, I will drive the Tesla. If its handling on the twisty roads I want, then I’ll grab the Porsche keys. My gladiator is an offroad truck.

Works for you...Living in Las Vegas. But I have to drive for two days just to get to Colorado. So four days transit time (Did that this past summer) of constant up-down shifting.

 

[Flyin6]

Answer is a CAI and louder exhaust, a guaranteed 50 hp gain. You'll be able to hear it, that is how you will know.

Already have all of the above. Not +50 my friend. Perhaps +10...maybe.

 

[Flyin6]

Most of us build these trucks for overland/crawling where i want torque down low In the rpm range. A Maserati street car driver will want torque high up in the rpm range to make more hp at redline. I see that as a fundamental disconnect. I don’t want to crawl at redline. If I were to do anything it would be a blower adding a few extra psi. But then it would add complexity that I wouldn‘t want deep on a trail. It’s a conundrum. I’m already planning for a Cummins swap…

...Not exactly

The purpose of cam timing which we have, VVT, changes the advance or retard of the cam baseline. So any cam profile could be made to deliver down low or thousands of RPM higher depending on that baseline timing. Ever notice where some cams are set at 114 degrees centerline, while others vary greatly down to the 107ish CL? That centerline determines WHERE the power happens.
Lift and duration are the components to actual power production. So a standard JT cam with more Lift, especially lift along with a bit more duration, not much, but some would increase power. Then the VVT puts it where we need it...

 

[JTGuy]

Sounds like you have a nice JT already. Accept the power for what it is and save for the new one with the 500HP Hurricane when it hits. That's my plan.
How much power is enough? Just a little bit more.

 

[Flyin6]

I wonder though also if some engineers have looked into it and maybe deemed the engine is not capable of producing more without serious consequences like a shortened life or critical failure. Maybe the internal components or even engine casting itself is not suitable for more stress and strain?

Naw, Cork, from what I am hearing the motor is pretty durable and stout. Most smart folks I talk to are saying 400 crank horsepower all day long with no issues. The problem they are having is with the extensive encryption in the newer confusers.
Now should people start to make noise (What I am attempting to do here) and show interest in getting the -5 computer tuned, then more effort would be spent. Why? Simply because there would be mon-ee to be made. If discussions like this one could awaken the sleeping giant of the aftermarket, then we would get the bonus room built into each one of our trucks finally opened up for use!

 

[Flyin6]

Sounds like you have a nice JT already. Accept the power for what it is and save for the new one with the 500HP Hurricane when it hits. That's my plan.
How much power is enough? Just a little bit more.

Would love to...But am building a cabin on the farm and doing other things. No new JT for me (she sez!) ;-(
I think we will get tuning. Then I'll have everything I need and a paid-off AEV JT to boot!!!

 

[sl65racer]

...Not exactly

The purpose of cam timing which we have, VVT, changes the advance or retard of the cam baseline. So any cam profile could be made to deliver down low or thousands of RPM higher depending on that baseline timing. Ever notice where some cams are set at 114 degrees centerline, while others vary greatly down to the 107ish CL? That centerline determines WHERE the power happens.
Lift and duration are the components to actual power production. So a standard JT cam with more Lift, especially lift along with a bit more duration, not much, but some would increase power. Then the VVT puts it where we need it...

I'm ignorant on the Jeep VVT. Is there enough flexibility to mimic an old school rv cam?

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