Pentastar power increase

[Flyin6]

These are in fact very strong. I suspect people who have had issues after a boost of some sort were having tune issues, or other problems. The redesign, the 2nd gen 3.6 was designed with boost in mind. It just never happened. So a mild boost with a tune that's correct for it wouldn't be outside of the realm of what was going through the heads at FCA back in about 2013-2014 or so when getting ready to release the PUG in 2015.
Bad gas comes from those who don't understand gasoline much of the time.
I'd like to see the explanation - what does "bad" mean, exactly? It wasn't 87 or 89 or 91 octane as advertised? It was "old" and the light parts had evaporated off? What does "bad gas" mean.
I've seen dirty gas, gas with water in it, but bad?

You just keep on thinking through this. If the engine was redesigned in prep for DI and boost, then I'd think some sort of tuning isn't going to blow it on the next hill and some sort of SC was in mind way back then anyway.
If you are paranoid, there was a guy who ordered forged "internals" for a 3.6 then dropped the project and was selling those parts.

One reason I'd at least LOOK at a 4xe JT is because of the torque as soon as your foot twitches on the pedal. I like to be able to take off with a fully loaded trailer or bed full of stuff.
I'm sure the diesel guys wouldn't get rid of their low-end torque for anything. You'd face at least a tough fight taking it away from them. If I were to want anything added engine-wise to mine, it's more low end grunt. I like taking off and not wishing I had a high stall converter and really deep gears. It's fine on the highway, but just isn't great for some purposes. Some low end grunt would be nice behind a snow plow as well.
If there was an affordable way for me to get that - keeping the exact same truck and engine, well, who knows. Like I said - it's one reason I love my wife's JLU - it'll out-pull my JT any day on the low end.
(PLEASE DON't MAKE THIS POLITICAL or whatever because I mentioned the term 4xe - I did that ONLY for TORQUE and HP comparison as it's not unlike a diesel in some respects that way and my last diesel was back in the late 80s)

I will!
The price of trading out or opting for a Hemi mandates that I exhaust all possibilities of making this engine right. Because if I can, then I have the RIGHT engine in the JT for the job.
1. Something Jeep engineered
2. The lightest motor/vehicle solution
3. Likely the best fuel economy
4. A certain "cool" factor that didn't "sell out" for the easy fix.

This may be a couple year old story before the final chapter is written, but I WILL be the one writing it!

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[Flyin6]

At work so I haven't watched the whole video, but how'd they get a 2023 with the gpec2a? The description says they were able to tune the gpec5?

This bears some investigation.
Perhaps the mantle is cracking on this encryption.

I just sent VCM Performance in Victoria Australia an email asking if they can unlock the GPEC5 computers.

 

[Zachanadandy]

This bears some investigation.
Perhaps the mantle is cracking on this encryption.

Unfortunately I watched the video and it's clearly the 2a. Maybe export models still get the other ecm. The video description pisses me off though.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Unfortunately I watched the video and it's clearly the 2a. Maybe export models still get the other ecm. The video description pisses me off though.

Yes, the description is totally wrong. It's not a 5 they cracked.
I'm surprised no one in the comments caught that, but I didn't read all of the comments, either.
That piece sticks right up there in plain sight.

 

[Flyin6]

Unfortunately I watched the video and it's clearly the 2a. Maybe export models still get the other ecm. The video description pisses me off though.

I just emailed them to check to see if maybe they can do a GPEC5. I concur, the video clearly shows a GPEC2.

 

[jav_eee]

I've been running the Livernois tune on my 20 JT for almost 3 years now. A decent enough compromise as I was thinking about a blower. A few start up issues, but their guys got it sorted?.

Never had it on the dyno, so I guess I'm one of those 'feels better by the seat of my pants' guys ?.

I did buy another PCM (keeping the original as a spare) but have never needed to swap it back in.

how do you like the tune?

 

[mike921921]

Has a little pep, shift points good, really no issues. Haven't/won't do the E85 thing, so only have experience with reg/prem fuel. Only real regret is I bought a PCM to keep the orig. as spare and haven't needed it yet ?

 

[Zachanadandy]

Has a little pep, shift points good, really no issues. Haven't/won't do the E85 thing, so only have experience with reg/prem fuel. Only real regret is I bought a PCM to keep the orig. as spare and haven't needed it yet ?

Never run e85 but it is tempting and terrifying at the same time. Is it going to pull water into my fuel system? Is it going to eat my rubber seals? How much worse could the fuel economy even get? But it's $1-2/gallon cheaper, makes more power, and doesn't tend to leave any carbon buildup. Anyone run it in a pentastar for any kind of duration? Issues?

 

[Flyin6]

Has a little pep, shift points good, really no issues. Haven't/won't do the E85 thing, so only have experience with reg/prem fuel. Only real regret is I bought a PCM to keep the orig. as spare and haven't needed it yet ?

Could you elaborate beyond this? Did it solve for any issues such as lack of power or did you just do it to get a little more pep? Further, I noticed a wee little better performance using a tank of 93 followed by one of 87 and so forth. I run each tank down to 1/2, then refill. Hoping the resultant is somewhere below the "Knock zone" and around 89 on average...Thoughts?

 

[sharpsicle]

Never run e85 but it is tempting and terrifying at the same time. Is it going to pull water into my fuel system? Is it going to eat my rubber seals? How much worse could the fuel economy even get? But it's $1-2/gallon cheaper, makes more power, and doesn't tend to leave any carbon buildup. Anyone run it in a pentastar for any kind of duration? Issues?

You can't just dump in E85 to a stock JT motor. They're not flex-fuel compatible.

Also important to note that E85 by itself doesn't make more power. It's the build and tune capabilities that it gives you that can increase power as E85 has a higher effective octane rating (100 or so). At a minimum you need to change the tune to take advantage of E85, and those that build up engines for high power use E85 not because it makes a bigger boom, but because it has a higher octane rating and can be compressed more.

The JT Pentastar isn't able to accommodate E85, though, unless you modify it. Which brings us full circle to the issue of not being able to modify the -5 units.

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/is-the-pentastar-flex-fuel-capable.32470

 

[jav_eee]

Could you elaborate beyond this? Did it solve for any issues such as lack of power or did you just do it to get a little more pep? Further, I noticed a wee little better performance using a thak of 93 followed by one of 87 and so forth. I run each tank down to 1/2, then refill. Hoping the resultant is somewhere below the "Knock zone" and around 89 on average...Thoughts?

I’ve noticed a smoother/quieter engine running 93. I know it goes against what a lot of people say about only needing 87 but…. Or maybe it’s just my engine that likes it?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Never run e85 but it is tempting and terrifying at the same time. Is it going to pull water into my fuel system? Is it going to eat my rubber seals? How much worse could the fuel economy even get? But it's $1-2/gallon cheaper, makes more power, and doesn't tend to leave any carbon buildup. Anyone run it in a pentastar for any kind of duration? Issues?

It's not going to hurt or eat anything. These just weren't tuned for it.
As I recall, it was among the plans way back to make it flex fuel but it never happened.
It does make more power IF the system is tuned to adapt to it.
I ran it in my Silverado when towing and I could actually feel the difference.
Can't recall what the book said it did, but it was a fair amount of HP more.
MPG was down some but not horribly.
The dealer where I bought that truck from kept an excel spreadsheet and he'd plug in the price per gallon of 10% vs. E85 and had the mpg differences plugged in and he could quickly tell if there was any advantage cost per mile wise depending on the price spread.
Sometimes there was a good advantage, sometimes it was a wash. But I used it when towing because of the extra power.
State owned vehicles when I worked for them were all flex fuel and they pretty much insisted you use E85 in them. I got used to the power and mpg differences in those cars and vans doing remote network work.

E85 will burn cooler and cleaner and because of the octane, the engine can be pushed beyond the limits of lower octane, hotter running gasoline. Running cooler in itself helps prevent detonation.
On the flip side - change your oil more often. If you do 5,000 miles now, do 4,000 with E85, just for example numbers.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Further, I noticed a wee little better performance using a thak of 93 followed by one of 87 and so forth. I run each tank down to 1/2, then refill. Hoping the resultant is somewhere below the "Knock zone" and around 89 on average...Thoughts?

It takes a bit of time for the PCM to adjust the long term trim tables so you won't put in 93 and drive 2 blocks and feel anything different.
The resulting octane of a mix of gasolines will vary depending on how they obtained that octane rating.
I run E15 a lot - it's a bunch cheaper here than 10% and runs great and I've noticed zero difference in mpg. ISU studies have shown over time that you won't see a difference between 10 and 15% - the difference is between 0 and 10%.
But then again, mine runs great on 87 10%, too, never had any issues with any fuel I run in it. I do wish the tune could handle E85. There's lines in the system indicating these share a lot with flex fuel FCA vehicles. They just never tuned for it.
The more I see you guys talk of tunes and being able to run E85 and getting even a bit more makes me watch and think - I do tow and it's hilly as hell here. That's where it would be nice.
OTOH, it would have to be cheap as I'm really pretty happy with it as is.

 

[Zachanadandy]

It's not going to hurt or eat anything. These just weren't tuned for it.
As I recall, it was among the plans way back to make it flex fuel but it never happened.
It does make more power IF the system is tuned to adapt to it.
I ran it in my Silverado when towing and I could actually feel the difference.
Can't recall what the book said it did, but it was a fair amount of HP more.
MPG was down some but not horribly.
The dealer where I bought that truck from kept an excel spreadsheet and he'd plug in the price per gallon of 10% vs. E85 and had the mpg differences plugged in and he could quickly tell if there was any advantage cost per mile wise depending on the price spread.
Sometimes there was a good advantage, sometimes it was a wash. But I used it when towing because of the extra power.
State owned vehicles when I worked for them were all flex fuel and they pretty much insisted you use E85 in them. I got used to the power and mpg differences in those cars and vans doing remote network work.

E85 will burn cooler and cleaner and because of the octane, the engine can be pushed beyond the limits of lower octane, hotter running gasoline. Running cooler in itself helps prevent detonation.
On the flip side - change your oil more often. If you do 5,000 miles now, do 4,000 with E85, just for example numbers.

I wasn't clear, if/when the livernoise tune is available for the gpec5, it will be tempting to run the e85 tune. 55 extra foot pounds is exactly what the pentastar needs in my opinion. More power than the 93 octane tune at a lower price than 87.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

And I was referring to this part of your post - it's not going to eat seals or pull water in (unless you buy from crappy stations and leave it sitting for months at a time).
I have run it (in other vehicles), nothing terrifying about it.

Never run e85 but it is tempting and terrifying at the same time. Is it going to pull water into my fuel system? Is it going to eat my rubber seals? How much worse could the fuel economy even get?

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