Pentastar power increase

[Flyin6]

My read is that he is trying to politely tell you they are not going to spend any more unless someone else finds a way to overcome the obstacles preventing them from going forward. He put a lot of effort into justifying an engine swap. My interpretation, don't call us, we'll call you if we are able to come up with something in the future.

Concur to a degree. Being privy to more conversation than just this with Hunter, he is saying it is unlikely the GPEC5 will be unlocked anytime soon. He feels my needs might be better served with a big V8. He is looking after me and what he interprets as my real-world needs.

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[ShadowsPapa]

From Livernois:

Even if we did a supercharger on a 3.6, they only make about 280ish to the wheels and it’s a $15k job for a magnuson on one of those so you’re already half the cost of a HEMI swap, with half the horsepower as well. We’ve always been the first people to tune vehicles, such as the 23 EcoBoost trucks, and any new vehicle on the market. We’ve got the best engineers working on cracking the -5 computer, just like every other tuning company out there. The only roadblock with the -5 is not the connections, but the code to crack the encryption. There’s billions of possibilities for the encryption and it might take 6 months or it might take 6 years to crack them. FCA strengthened their encryption on the -5 computers tenfold compared to the -2A computers so it’s almost near impossible to crack them. Unfortunately right now, the only two options you truly have for the gladiator is 1) leave it how it is and hope in the future the -5 gets cracked or 2) Hemi swap. By the time you do a supercharger, ported heads, throttle body, and possibly upgrade some of the internals, you’re right at the price point, if not more of a HEMI swap. Even if you didn’t do the internals, you’d still be around $5k short of doing the AMW 505 swap. I used to work at a dealership and we worked with AMW closely, and having the opportunity to drive both a 505 swapped gladiator along with a Rocky Ridge or Black Widow gladiator that were both on 37s, I would choose the AMW and spend the money on a conversion every day of the year. Even with the factory gearing and 37s, it was slow and wasn’t fun to drive at all because there was no power to get up and go. The 505 on the other hand had no issues turning those 37s and never shifted constantly. From personal experience, even if you got an extra 50wtq from the motor, it wouldn’t do what you expected it to do as the gearing internally is vastly different from the suburban. The gladiators 8 speed trans is made to shift more frequently than the 4 or 6 speed in your suburban. Heck, I’ve got a 2018 F150 5.0 with the 10 speed on oversized tires and even with 3.55s, if I’m going up a slight incline on the highway, it downshifts down to 7th, otherwise the trans will cook itself, which is also why the trans on the gladiator downshifts so frequently. If you had a little more torque, even if it kept the trans in the same gear, your temps would skyrocket which would eventually cook the transmission. The stock computer will automatically downshift the trans that far to keep the fluid moving and keep the trans at a good operating temp.

-Hunter

Does it sound like they are simply trying to talk you out of it without answering the question?

 

[Escape.idiocracy]

What year is that? If it is late 2021 or after then you're on to something, but if it is an earlier JT, then it has the -2 computer and we are no longer talking apples-apples

It’s a 2022

 

[Charles 236]

OK, mega-brain fart. Geesh, I've even seen how these are assembled in the case of Wrangler and Gladiator - full frame, engine assembly dropped onto frame and bolted to frame, body goes on.
Smack forehead...........

No problem, I am subject to them as well. We have a tech in the shop who said that he will lift the body off the frame the next time he has to install a 2.0 in a Wrangler (yeah, it's that tight). On the other hand, it took me only a couple of hours to pull a 2.4 out the front of a Renegade yesterday. So now we have three ways to R&R an engine: out the top, out the bottom, and straight out the front. Glad my full retirement is coming soon. My apprentice is learning these techniques, and in another forty years or so he can be the "3.6 head master and keeper of the arcane knowledge".

 

[Zachanadandy]

Ripp has dyno videos of an otherwise stock 3.6L making 445hp at the wheels with their supercharger, why would the gladiator only make 285hp? Obviously supercharging is off the table until the gpec5 can be tuned by I disagree completely that you'd be anywhere near the cost of a HEMI swap or nearly as underpowered as he made it sound. I think 445hp at the wheels might be a generous dyno, but 350whp should be easy with any kit. That's more than a stock 5.7L. Also, I don't care what power the engine makes from idle to 1400 rpms as that is well below where we cruise around at and even below 2k means there's no load on the thing. We have an 8spd trans and easy access to all the rpm and horsepower that comes with it. Sure the 4.0L you could lug down to 1k rpm and it still made torque, but I don't see any need to drive my Jeep like that. It's no fun to drive it like it's a tractor anyway. Granted my mojave hasn't even seen 4LO yet despite half of its 2k miles being of road, but my average rpms in the desert is well into the Powerband of the 3.6L. The JLUR has seen lots of tough rock trails, but it's 88-1 crawl ratio keeps it well above 2k rpms any time I need even the slightest bit of power even on 39s. Crawling has never felt like the 3.6L needed more power. In the desert and in the freeway on the other hand it could use the extra boost for sure.

 

[ChrisNLA]

Not uncommon for the factory to lift the engine and transmission (and transfer case if involved) in from the bottom.
It takes a lot to work in a long off-center assembly from the top and doing engine only means lining things up for the bell housing, etc.

Good stands and a gantry crane...........
Going in -

I lowered the car onto stands, moved the chain hoist to the engine, pulled it up a bit, raised the transmission jack up a bit, put in the cross member bolts and the whole drivetrain (less rear axle of course) was in place using one arm.
The engine, transmission, transfer case, front differential, both cross members and front half of the exhaust was all in place.

Oh yea us kids ain't got that equipment - we're lucky that this most recent turbo build even has a roof over it I've found it to be pretty easy doing them from the top, but I always keep the engine and trans together if doing so.

As it is we're hooking up my buddies four post to run off the generator on his service truck in lieu of not having power to that lean too.

Once I move I'll finally work on building a shop that work can be done in with reasonable comfort.

 

[stickshifter]

Well, I suppose it is impossible to keep this discussion focused on increasing power or generating aftermarket interest.

I like how some people are set to the "Nick pick" mode. I'll bet they have loads of friends. Target a comment or twist it just a bit and there you go, I suppose you "Caught" someone or something like that. Perhaps that adds credibility to some egos, dunno.

It is difficult to carry on a conversation when you know people are only looking to try and catch you on something. Take the AEV commentary. Does anybody actually think the AEV conversion is a Jeep factory modification? Of course not, so my bad, I said factory when I should have said dealership. Dealerships do order these things from Jeep, then sell them and that's where mine comes from. So I'm a bad man for saying it that way.

Oh and I liked this comment as well, " it means you know what you're saying is bunk." Why of course! If someone says something out of order or not quite right, then it must be true, that everything that person says is false, incorrect or as was stated, "bunk." I seriously tire of people like this.

But for those who weren't looking to nick-pick and just generally remain a part of a friendly conversation, thank you.

I don't get it. Guy asks for advice on a good way to add more power. Why not keep the thread focused on that question? If someone wants to debate whether or not the 3.6 "needs" more power that's a different thread.

 

[Flyin6]

Ripp has dyno videos of an otherwise stock 3.6L making 445hp at the wheels with their supercharger, why would the gladiator only make 285hp? Obviously supercharging is off the table until the gpec5 can be tuned by I disagree completely that you'd be anywhere near the cost of a HEMI swap or nearly as underpowered as he made it sound. I think 445hp at the wheels might be a generous dyno, but 350whp should be easy with any kit. That's more than a stock 5.7L. Also, I don't care what power the engine makes from idle to 1400 rpms as that is well below where we cruise around at and even below 2k means there's no load on the thing. We have an 8spd trans and easy access to all the rpm and horsepower that comes with it. Sure the 4.0L you could lug down to 1k rpm and it still made torque, but I don't see any need to drive my Jeep like that. It's no fun to drive it like it's a tractor anyway. Granted my mojave hasn't even seen 4LO yet despite half of its 2k miles being of road, but my average rpms in the desert is well into the Powerband of the 3.6L. The JLUR has seen lots of tough rock trails, but it's 88-1 crawl ratio keeps it well above 2k rpms any time I need even the slightest bit of power even on 39s. Crawling has never felt like the 3.6L needed more power. In the desert and in the freeway on the other hand it could use the extra boost for sure.

Your responses make the most sense and I find myself almost completely in agreement.

A tune and a supercharger is the answer. Because a supercharger shoves torque into any RPM range. It's almost as if the cam is just in there to fill some space. Where my 6.0 Suburban would downshift on a long hill, now being supercharged, it doesn't. It does not downshift because of the supercharger and two important factors. The first is all the added power. As one places demand on the engine...Imagine you have the cruise control set and you are going up an extended and steepening incline like the hills around Jellico, Tennessee. The opening of the throttle allows more air to enter the supercharger which it immediately compresses. I watch the boost gage on these hills and it will creep up. First one then two, then three...All the way to 9psi sometimes. But the thing stays in overdrive.

The second reason transmissions downshift is because of throttle position. However, before the boost, I had to get into the pedal to get the power to maintain speed, now only, perhaps 1/3 of that throttle angle is necessary to generate the power needed. Therefore the threshold to downshift is never reached, the thing just cruises...Relentlessly.

I do not believe the V6 engines are inherently weak. I bet the opposite is true. I DO NOT think that adding a properly fueled boost will affect anything other than the deepening angle of your smile.

And as for tuning and suddenly blowing up the engine after some bad gas? Hogwash! The thing has knock sensors, right? Bad gas in reality = reduced performance, little more.

Personally, I am not listening to all the cautionary commentary. If you want stock, then drive it stock. Don't cast a shadow on people who endeavor to improve things. Reminds me so much of all the folks who come up to me saying they wish they would have served, but didn't. Seriously, don't say anything and just stay in your lane and let the more daring risk it some to figure things out.

 

[Flyin6]

It’s a 2022

That means that boy has some serious skills! Kudos to him and that conversion.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I do not believe the V6 engines are inherently weak. I bet the opposite is true. I DO NOT think that adding a properly fueled boost will affect anything other than the deepening angle of your smile.

And as for tuning and suddenly blowing up the engine after some bad gas? Hogwash! The thing has knock sensors, right? Bad gas in reality = reduced performance, little more.

These are in fact very strong. I suspect people who have had issues after a boost of some sort were having tune issues, or other problems. The redesign, the 2nd gen 3.6 was designed with boost in mind. It just never happened. So a mild boost with a tune that's correct for it wouldn't be outside of the realm of what was going through the heads at FCA back in about 2013-2014 or so when getting ready to release the PUG in 2015.
Bad gas comes from those who don't understand gasoline much of the time.
I'd like to see the explanation - what does "bad" mean, exactly? It wasn't 87 or 89 or 91 octane as advertised? It was "old" and the light parts had evaporated off? What does "bad gas" mean.
I've seen dirty gas, gas with water in it, but bad?

You just keep on thinking through this. If the engine was redesigned in prep for DI and boost, then I'd think some sort of tuning isn't going to blow it on the next hill and some sort of SC was in mind way back then anyway.
If you are paranoid, there was a guy who ordered forged "internals" for a 3.6 then dropped the project and was selling those parts.

One reason I'd at least LOOK at a 4xe JT is because of the torque as soon as your foot twitches on the pedal. I like to be able to take off with a fully loaded trailer or bed full of stuff.
I'm sure the diesel guys wouldn't get rid of their low-end torque for anything. You'd face at least a tough fight taking it away from them. If I were to want anything added engine-wise to mine, it's more low end grunt. I like taking off and not wishing I had a high stall converter and really deep gears. It's fine on the highway, but just isn't great for some purposes. Some low end grunt would be nice behind a snow plow as well.
If there was an affordable way for me to get that - keeping the exact same truck and engine, well, who knows. Like I said - it's one reason I love my wife's JLU - it'll out-pull my JT any day on the low end.
(PLEASE DON't MAKE THIS POLITICAL or whatever because I mentioned the term 4xe - I did that ONLY for TORQUE and HP comparison as it's not unlike a diesel in some respects that way and my last diesel was back in the late 80s)

 

[Zachanadandy]

Even looking at vcm's website there's no mention of gpec5 support but apparently they've figured it out. 372 whp would make this mojave ridiculous in the desert. It's already fast enough I get a lot of "slow down", "you've proved your point", and "wtf" comments from the wife.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Even looking at vcm's website there's no mention of gpec5 support but apparently they've figured it out. 372 whp would make this mojave ridiculous in the desert. It's already fast enough I get a lot of "slow down", "you've proved your point", and "wtf" comments from the wife.

Is this the video where someone eventually recognized that it was the GPEC2A and not 5?
If so I'm not sure why that video still says it's a 5.

Am I wrong or is this the PCM in that video - and if so, it's a GPEC2A and not a 5

 

[Zachanadandy]

Is this the video where someone eventually recognized that it was the 2 and not 5?

Am I wrong or is this the PCM in that video - and if so, it's a GPEC2A and not a 5

At work so I haven't watched the whole video, but how'd they get a 2023 with the gpec2a? The description says they were able to tune the gpec5?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

At work so I haven't watched the whole video, but how'd they get a 2023 with the gpec2a? The description says they were able to tune the gpec5?

But did THEY post the video or did someone else post it?
If they cracked it then it's out there but you still see company after company saying no, it's not yet cracked.

They may have swapped wiring harnesses and installed a 2A.
I didn't watch the whole thing but recall this video being called out in another forum thread in these forums stating hey, that's not a 5.

look at the picture - is that not the PCM?

 

[Hootbro]

But did THEY post the video or did someone else post it?
If they cracked it then it's out there but you still see company after company saying no, it's not yet cracked.

They may have swapped wiring harnesses and installed a 2A.
I didn't watch the whole thing but recall this video being called out in another forum thread in these forums stating hey, that's not a 5.

look at the picture - is that not the PCM?

Yeah, that is 2A PCM for sure. Maybe the RHD markets get the 2A PCM? I think here in the North American market, the manual Gladiators still get the 2A PCM

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