Pentastar power increase

[Flyin6]

Coming from a naive standpoint here. But how hard would it be to put something like the Megasquirt 3 pro universal ECU in?

Wow!
Above my mental and ingenuity paygrade
Anyone???

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[ShadowsPapa]

Coming from a naive standpoint here. But how hard would it be to put something like the Megasquirt 3 pro universal ECU in?

Universal??? Won't be possible. Too many things have to talk to each other and agree, security handshakes and so on not to mention charging system control and more. Can't see it on any modern vehicle.

 

[Flyin6]

Universal??? Won't be possible. Too many things have to talk to each other and agree, security handshakes and so on not to mention charging system control and more. Can't see it on any modern vehicle.

Naw, it's a real thing, I went to the link and read about it. Could a person with an engineering IQ of 180 figure it out? Yes but imagine the time and heartache he would have gone through! Meant for folks who want a modern injection system on classic rides or full-on competition stuff.

 

[Hootbro]

Universal??? Won't be possible. Too many things have to talk to each other and agree, security handshakes and so on not to mention charging system control and more. Can't see it on any modern vehicle.

I do not think it would be plug and play by any means, but the shops doing the LS swaps on Jeeps use their stand alone engine/transmission management for that and just use emulators to give data to the rest of the vehicle modules.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I do not think it would be plug and play by any means, but the shops doing the LS swaps on Jeeps use their stand alone engine/transmission management for that and just use emulators to give data to the rest of the vehicle modules.

For the effort do an engine swap.

 

[Hootbro]

For the effort do an engine swap.

Agreed! That is what all things point to in my opinion given all the other roadblocks to the problem trying to be solved here.

 

[Charles 236]

I assembled a Megasquirt ECU kit for a relative a few years ago. It was an interesting system, and it is meant to allow a multipoint fuel injection system to operate properly on an older car. It is very capable, but far below the level of modern ECUs used for engine control. It would probably require giving up some very useful features of the 3.6, such as variable valve timing and variable valve lift. It also would not be capable of interfacing with the transmission ECU. On the particular car that the MS that I assembled was to be used in, it would be a great upgrade, there aren't many '66 Dodge Coronets with fuel injection on the original big block V8.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I assembled a Megasquirt ECU kit for a relative a few years ago. It was an interesting system, and it is meant to allow a multipoint fuel injection system to operate properly on an older car. It is very capable, but far below the level of modern ECUs used for engine control. It would probably require giving up some very useful features of the 3.6, such as variable valve timing and variable valve lift. It also would not be capable of interfacing with the transmission ECU. On the particular car that the MS that I assembled was to be used in, it would be a great upgrade, there aren't many '66 Dodge Coronets with fuel injection on the original big block V8.

My understanding was also that it was intended more for engine swap things for older vehicle (putting an LS in my Javelin?? HEAVEN FORBID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) or for vehicles not as complex as our JTs and JLs.
There's a ton of interaction, security (what security would be given up?) - these things monitor the torque, and adjust for towing and more. If it was that easy and worthwhile, we'd be seeing a new "story" scrolling along the top of the forum about the Megasquirt system being used in a JT with a 3.6............

Speaking of interfacing with the transmission - and in my example, brakes - twice again today I decided to see how correct or accurate I was in how my truck behaved in our hills here - twice I was going down grades that would normally see me going from 45 up to 55 just by sitting back and letting gravity work. Each time I firmly touched the brake pedal for maybe a second and let up - not really slowing the truck but giving it the idea of what I wanted - I watched as I was letting up on the brake pedal and my truck downshifted and pretty much maintained speed with very little, if any gain,, in speed going down the hill.
I don't want to give up that sort of interaction, where it reads my mind (or rather reacts to my actions and assumes I want to not gain speed on that hill)

and of course, it's windy as #@$% here much of the time - today was no exception. I hardly ever saw 8th gear and one trip was heading back home, about 12 miles, 65 mph and the thing had to stay in 6th to maintain that speed. Wow.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Naw, it's a real thing, I went to the link and read about it. Could a person with an engineering IQ of 180 figure it out? Yes but imagine the time and heartache he would have gone through! Meant for folks who want a modern injection system on classic rides or full-on competition stuff.

We're working on it........

 

[DAVECS2]

Not uncommon for the factory to lift the engine and transmission (and transfer case if involved) in from the bottom.
It takes a lot to work in a long off-center assembly from the top and doing engine only means lining things up for the bell housing, etc.

Good stands and a gantry crane...........
Going in ->

I lowered the car onto stands, moved the chain hoist to the engine, pulled it up a bit, raised the transmission jack up a bit, put in the cross member bolts and the whole drivetrain (less rear axle of course) was in place using one arm.
The engine, transmission, transfer case, front differential, both cross members and front half of the exhaust was all in place.

If you take the 2018-2023 from the top you can avoid cracking open the AC and transmission lines. Both of these systems is filled with stuff that is hard to get and requires a software service tool

 

[DAVECS2]

I do not think it would be plug and play by any means, but the shops doing the LS swaps on Jeeps use their stand alone engine/transmission management for that and just use emulators to give data to the rest of the vehicle modules.

The shops putting LS's in the jeeps actually utilize thw JEEP ECM to run the LS with a couple sensor swaps on the engine. The goup of ECMs on your jeep have a pretty intricate security protocol. If one goes missing, It becomes pretty difficult to start and run. This is what makes putting an older ECM very difficult because you would need a stock OS with your vin to satisfy that security protocol, being as GpEC5 truck never had that OS, that will be difficult. Also the OS and calibration for each can be pretty unique with all the software changes Jeep has made. That's why I only build off of stock files anymore. And trust me it still can be a challenge to get things to run right.

 

[JTGuy]

All I do is run 91 octane and that helps but some people say no. I will not touch the 3.6for more power as you hurt other things with it. I will just save up for the next JT with a I-6 3.0 twin turbo and hope 540HP. Sometimes I wish I would have got the 3.0 diesel but they had some issues.

 

[BearFootSam]

Yeah, you are right and most certainly the 4.0 has more torque from off idle to around 1800rpm.

I also agree low rpm dyno testing is infuriating. It gets blamed on the transmission not being able to stay in the 1:1 gear at low rpm or being prone to downshifting, but to me that shows a lack of effort by the dyno owners and operators --find a way to make the trans hold the gear you want, or get a job doing something else very poorly. Dyno testing is essentially data gathering and analysis, i.e. science. This circles directly back to your number chasing comment though. Not many people brag about the torque their engine makes at 1000rpm --that's a very special crowd.

A perhaps more legitimate excuse I've heard is that many transmissions don't make enough line pressure at low RPM to create apply pressure's high enough to prevent slippage. This is plausible and I've seen where torque management routines on RAM Cummins for example, will reduce torque in certain gears and RPMs to allegedly save the driveline.

My JT is a ZF by the way, and I think the converter flashes at near 2000rpm when unlocked, so I don't ever feel the lack of torque under heavy throttle. It seems to be programmed to downshift before it gets called to apply much torque below 1800 rpm. Stated differently, I don't really ever notice my JT operating in the idle to 1800rpm range unless I'm just fatting around town, and then it doesn't matter

Spot on - the gearing of the AT, 4.10s and a decently broad torque band gift the JT with the torque you need. The JT pulls as hard as my father's old six speed XJ going up a steep hill into the neighborhood. If you notice the truck is hardly in 1st gear during normal driving, it goes to second quickly.

 

[Huhnowwhat]

If someone with more time money and patience than I have really wanted to accomplish this I think an ECU from Motec would be the ticket.

 

[Redfour5]

Looks like your HR department hired the same consultants as mine to sell us bottled common sense. Now I’ve got to create an entirely new set of bullshit yearly goals, that I’ll never look at again until my review when they give me the “merit increase” they’d already decided to give me before the meeting and we review my attainment & “alignment with corporate goals” with management that doesn’t care or think about them either except twice a year.

Through some amazing quirk of the org chart I don’t have to do these reviews from the other side with any of my subordinates. But I suspect that will change next year. Thank God they don’t drug test post-hiring because I’m going to need the assistance of some medicinal foliage to get through asking my people how they see their “personal goals aligning with sector objectives for 2024….blah blah blah….” over Teams without tearing my own face off or putting my head through the window.

I used to do continuous quality management for human systems in public health. And don't worry, I'll tied this diatribe directly to Stallantis by the end. But, IF you know how to use a CQI approach, it can be very valuable. But if you have a company that doesn't understand them and the next iteration of "leadership" is just going to do something else, yes, worthless. If you can't find your ass with both hands, don't even try. And if leadership does not have a clue what they want to accomplish then just sit behind your desk and play with yourself because it don't matter.

Specific
Measurable
Attainable
REALISTIC
Time-specific

I don't get the relevant in the one here though, that's like DUH, if you are creating goals and objectives that are NOT relevant???? WTF?

Oh, and you have to CREATE the data systems that can provide the quantifiable results that support what an entity WANTS to accomplish which is what it is all about. Your piece is part of the HOW it is accomplished. AND at least once a quarter you ALL sit down and LOOK at and DISCUSS the whole package including your part and piece. IF the data does not support what you as an organization do NOT want to accomplish, then you revisit first the smaller pieces, if many of those are NOT providing data that supports the larger goals and objectives then there is a systemic problem. If only one or two are providing data that does not support the larger goals and objectives, then there is a problem in that specific area. It could be management, staff or the fact that that program does not have a clue what it is doing within the context of the larger whole.

I was YOU for 20 years, rolling my eyes every time somebody came in with a shiny new "strategic plan." Then I started using this and change programs nationally. And I'd use the data as a weapon against people low AND high. AND force them to be sane, logical and rational.

First, I'd force people at the top to explicitly put down what they wanted to accomplish. In writing, their own words. Then I'd break it down to the lower levels and they would create systems that supported the larger goals and objectives. Then when the bosses changed their minds I'd use the data to either show up the strategic problems forcing them to think it through or I'd show them how capricious and arbitrary they were being. Now, since the only people that want those jobs usually have huge egos, I had to leave a few times usually after politely showing people how big of an ass hole they were without raising my voice as they contradicted themselves.

But there was always problems down lower in the food chains also. Ass holes at the top had to start somewhere and you had to identify them clearly and put mechanisms in place to root them out all the way up and down. Now the people lower down can't just get rid of you, but then you enter the realm of internal politics so you better know how to do that.

Passive aggression as one example, you allow the lowest level people to create solutions clearly identifying a problem and with specific SMART solutions to solve it and they CC you. The more people that sign on to a solution the more power it has and an A hole boss gets forced to change. And you stand right over them as they do it for example. Got rid of a bunch of corrupt A holes that way and the respect of the people WHO DID THE JOB. Because that is where I STARTED dealing with all the BS. I turned a 1500 patient VA center around doing this after a corrupt Superintendent. NAILED his behind to a wall and then they found the corruption after 15 years as the lower level staff finally opened up. He went to jail.

So, at one level I agree with you when its ALL a screwed up mess like Stellantis is now in November of 2023 with contradictory incentive web pages all over the place for Gladiators and and my zip code and manure heads at the top either here in the US or Europe are the problem obviously as they apparently have no strategy and its permeating downward... I mean when you can't order a 2024 vehicle on December 25th of the year before??? WTF? I'm done, but at another level even 15 years younger, I'd love to take a whack at it, but I'm done, no longer fixing human weaknesses, and forcing people to live up to what they say, I just wanna buy a Gladiator.

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