The good and the bad of a roots supercharger.

[DAVECS1]

For sure.

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[jsalbre]

For sure.

Sounds like time to straight pipe it then!

 

[jsalbre]

Well, I’m a bit concerned mine may be on its way. It’s got a nasty “diesel rattle” at idle and low RPM under load.

Video attached.

 

[@californiajeeping]

Wow I’m so glad I’m into a ecodiesel. I had that same sound on my max tow.

 

[jsalbre]

Well, I’m a bit concerned mine may be on its way. It’s got a nasty “diesel rattle” at idle and low RPM under load.

Video attached.

Can anyone who has a verified case of the wrong lifters and eaten cam verify this sounds the same?

 

[DAVECS1]

Bad cam and wring lifters, does not sound any different at idle. The high lift lobes are what wear away and they are not used until 3000 rpm. That sounds like an Exhaust rocker has gone bad

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Bad cam and wring lifters, does not sound any different at idle. The high lift lobes are what wear away and they are not used until 3000 rpm. That sounds like an Exhaust rocker has gone bad

Going to disagree - sort of - with parts of that.

With wrong lash adjusters (when exhaust lash adjusters are used in the intake positions) they do not supply the oil pressure that would, via a proper intake lash adjuster, hold the lock pin retracted against the spring so that the high lift center portion simply follows the high lift lobe but can't open the valve because it's allowed to pivot on a pin against another spring inside.
When that lock pin is not held back by oil pressure because none is supplied to it because of an incorrect lash adjuster, the intake operates in high lift mode all the time, even at idle.

So in short:
If an exhaust lash adjuster is put in the intake spot, no oil pressure is there to force the lock pin retracted.
Lock pin moves out, pushed by spring, and locks the high lift center section into operation.
High lift portion of rocker operates all the time, even below 2800 rpm.

If it works correctly:
Intake lash adjuster supplies oil pressure to lock pin shank, pushing it back against spring pressure.
High lift portion of rocker simply pivots back and forth on its pivot pin, slack is taken up by a spring that keeps the high lift section from simply flopping around. It does follow the cam but is allowed to move up and down, unable to apply force to the intake valve.
Intake operates in low lift mode.

So, with incorrect lash adjusters installed at the intake valve, the high lift portion of the 2 step rocker can never be locked out and will cause the intake to be operated in high lift mode at all times - even at idle or cruising speeds. This wears out the cam and rocker, and causes the intake to allow a full charge of air in at all times, increasing pressures, etc.

 

[DAVECS1]

Going to disagree - sort of - with parts of that.

With wrong lash adjusters (when exhaust lash adjusters are used in the intake positions) they do not supply the oil pressure that would, via a proper intake lash adjuster, hold the lock pin retracted against the spring so that the high lift center portion simply follows the high lift lobe but can't open the valve because it's allowed to pivot on a pin against another spring inside.
When that lock pin is not held back by oil pressure because none is supplied to it because of an incorrect lash adjuster, the intake operates in high lift mode all the time, even at idle.

So in short:
If an exhaust lash adjuster is put in the intake spot, no oil pressure is there to force the lock pin retracted.
Lock pin moves out, pushed by spring, and locks the high lift center section into operation.
High lift portion of rocker operates all the time, even below 2800 rpm.

If it works correctly:
Intake lash adjuster supplies oil pressure to lock pin shank, pushing it back against spring pressure.
High lift portion of rocker simply pivots back and forth on its pivot pin, slack is taken up by a spring that keeps the high lift section from simply flopping around. It does follow the cam but is allowed to move up and down, unable to apply force to the intake valve.
Intake operates in low lift mode.

So, with incorrect lash adjusters installed at the intake valve, the high lift portion of the 2 step rocker can never be locked out and will cause the intake to be operated in high lift mode at all times - even at idle or cruising speeds. This wears out the cam and rocker, and causes the intake to allow a full charge of air in at all times, increasing pressures, etc.

I can agree with that. In my experience, my truck was airwolf whisper mode when idling and cruising around. Did not make any noise until I laid into it. I suppose if your equipment is pretty damaged of justextra leaky then yeah.

Do they make the Gladiator motors in a different factory or something. They really do seem to have a fair amount of QC issues

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I can agree with that. In my experience, my truck was airwolf whisper mode when idling and cruising around. Did not make any noise until I laid into it. I suppose if your equipment is pretty damaged of justextra leaky then yeah.

Do they make the Gladiator motors in a different factory or something. They really do seem to have a fair amount of QC issues

.......at least with different tunes and parts..... supposedly still made in the same plant in Mexico.

I have not seen any engine issues like this with the WK series - and yet there's a TSB for misfires caused by spark plugs and it applies only to the 3.6 in the 2021 WK series, not JT, etc.
If they are made in the same place - why would some TSBs apply only to a 3.6 in one platform and not another?

I can see different spark plugs due to different tunes. Spark plugs can control a lot of things like detonation, pre-ignition, voltage required for ignition............

 

[DAVECS1]

*The sealing methods are less than ideal.
*The cams are made of ductile iron
*The VVL solenoids have no physical diagnostics
*the lifters are not poka yoke
*the phaser oil circuit is prone to clogging
*the inector driver saturate and turn off without warning
*The throttle body closed loop modeling has no secondary fall back control, so anything that perturbs the model is allowed to do so indefinitely.

That is just directly on the engine, let's not get into charging and steering.

This has all really bummed me out because I barely trouble shoot and perfect tunes any more, it is trying to diagnose an engine with to just get the basics to work.

 

[jsalbre]

Bad cam and wring lifters, does not sound any different at idle. The high lift lobes are what wear away and they are not used until 3000 rpm. That sounds like an Exhaust rocker has gone bad

Well that’s not positive either. Mine definitely makes the most noise at and just off idle. I guess I need to get out where I can rev it up and listen a bit. The last couple weeks have mostly been dragging a trailer around at under 20 mph, so not much opportunities for high RPM there.

 

[DC3]

Another one bites the dust. I have had the ticking sound for some time and finally on a 2,500 mile trip the high lift lobes wore down to the low lift levels. The passenger side is the worst but the driver side also have wear on all lobes, with one of the #2 lobes and both #6 lobes toast.

While I am in there, I am doing the exhaust cams too, even though they don't need it. I had already purchased the components in case I found other issues. I did not purchase new solenoids, so I have those on order.

Drivers side cam

Passenger side cam

 

[jsalbre]

Another one bites the dust. I have had the ticking sound for some time and finally on a 2,500 mile trip the high lift lobes wore down to the low lift levels. The passenger side is the worst but the driver side also have wear on all lobes, with one of the #2 lobes and both #6 lobes toast.

While I am in there, I am doing the exhaust cams too, even though they don't need it. I had already purchased the components in case I found other issues. I did not purchase new solenoids, so I have those on order.

Drivers side cam

Passenger side cam

Did you find the wrong lifters on one side as well?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Another one bites the dust. I have had the ticking sound for some time and finally on a 2,500 mile trip the high lift lobes wore down to the low lift levels. The passenger side is the worst but the driver side also have wear on all lobes, with one of the #2 lobes and both #6 lobes toast.

While I am in there, I am doing the exhaust cams too, even though they don't need it. I had already purchased the components in case I found other issues. I did not purchase new solenoids, so I have those on order.

Drivers side cam

Passenger side cam

Frankly, I don't love the looks of the low lift roller lobes either, such as where I marked in red.

And, like asked already, were the correct lash adjusters installed for the intake?

(Front solenoids control the front cylinder on each bank, rear head mounted solenoids control the rear two cylinders on each bank. )

 

[DAVECS1]

Man I am thinking I have a plugged cat, jut seeing this I wonder if my captains intake cam is shot

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