Water fording depth - Update

[ShadowsPapa]

Yes, hard to do a direct shot. The rear tube end is attached to the bed body facing towards the tailgate, so if you are trying to get mud off that area, which next to the wheelwell as it is, is rather probable in happening, going from behind and with a pressure washer, you are sending water towards the opening if not directly at it. With the pressure, I am wondering if water is getting through what is supposed to be a one-way membrane

They supposedly filter dust, dirt and water...... so........

Sponsored

 

[Proteus]

Just a quick update on the breather project...

I picked up about 20ft of 5/16" fuel line, and some 3/8 vacuum hose connectors from Auto Zone, and extended my breathers. I ran the T case breather back to the rear axle (too much going on with the trans, etc., to run it forward toward the engine bay), and used a T-connector to junction it with the rear diff breather... then ran one fuel line hose from the T-connector back up behind the passenger trail light.

Then I took a short piece of hose left over to extend the front diff breather up higher, and back by the firewall on the driver side.

Pretty easy and inexpensive way to get some extra peace of mind if things get deeper than expected.

would love some pics of what you did! this might be my next project since I want through some deeper water than I guessed last time on the trail!

 

[DVC]

would love some pics of what you did! this might be my next project since I want through some deeper water than I guessed last time on the trail!

I should have taken some pics while I was doing it, before I went and got everything caked in mud! Next time I'm under the Jeep, I'll see if I can get some helpful pics.

 

[stickshifter]

I raised my transfer case vent, but not the transmission on my JK--which is a manual. That's because the vent for it is about a 1/8" high metal tube poking out of a piece of sheetmetal. There's no hose. Even when I had the transmission out, there was no practical way to attach a hose, short some creative fabrication work to replace or modify the plate that metal tube pokes up out of. Regardless, despite some pretty deep fords, the transmission has never had water contamination. I think the difference is, the diffs get hot, and it is the rapid cooling effect that causes water penetration. A manual transmission runs pretty cool (so does a transfer case, BTW). In fact, the owner's manual for my 2007 JK says the transmission lube is good for the life of the vehicle. They did change that wording in later years, but "lifetime" was pretty par for the course for every manual vehicle I've ever owned--which is quite a few since that's almost all I've ever owned in the last half century. However, if someone has an automatic, since they do run hot, it would be prudent to include that in an upgrade program.

BTW: I do change the manual transmission lube on occasion. I was just sharing what my manual said.

Your manual transmission should be good fording water as long as you don't shift gears while the tranny is submerged. Same goes for deep mud. At least that was what I was told - and it was a message delivered with enough conviction (40 years ago!) that I've never broken the rule. The general rule for water fording was to put it in second gear - low range - and stay steady on the throttle all the way through the water. Second low is a nice sweet spot. In first gear, you might get bogged down, and in third you might start dropping rpm, losing power, and then want to shift... Of course, everything is situation-dependent, so second-low is just a general rule-of-thumb. Rubicons are geared pretty low (in low range), so maybe third is better. Play around, and you'll get a sense of gears/speed.

Maybe someone on here has some real engineering knowledge and they will say I'm wrong about shifting gears while submerged. I'm willing to try new stuff... in your truck.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Your manual transmission should be good fording water as long as you don't shift gears while the tranny is submerged. Same goes for deep mud. At least that was what I was told - and it was a message delivered with enough conviction (40 years ago!) that I've never broken the rule. The general rule for water fording was to put it in second gear - low range - and stay steady on the throttle all the way through the water. Second low is a nice sweet spot. In first gear, you might get bogged down, and in third you might start dropping rpm, losing power, and then want to shift... Of course, everything is situation-dependent, so second-low is just a general rule-of-thumb. Rubicons are geared pretty low (in low range), so maybe third is better. Play around, and you'll get a sense of gears/speed.

Maybe someone on here has some real engineering knowledge and they will say I'm wrong about shifting gears while submerged. I'm willing to try new stuff... in your truck.

Question - why would shifting gears matter?

If the thing is sealed and the vent is above the water........ I see no issues other than when in water any change in speed or gears can get you stuck.

 

[stickshifter]

Question - why would shifting gears matter?

If the thing is sealed and the vent is above the water........ I see no issues other than when in water any change in speed or gears can get you stuck.

Like I indicated - I'm not an engineer. Just repeating some 40-year old advice that was the gospel back in the day. Having said that, it seems the advice I got has legs. The following blurb is from Dixie 4-Wheel Drive. I found it using The Google, but when I saw the source, I realized that I actually know a couple of these guys. The shop is in Moab, and they have worked on my vehicles in the past (JKU and Tacoma). Good dudes. Here is their blurb:

Crossing Rivers or Water

There’s always a thrill of anticipation when you’re standing at the edge of a river or stream waiting to go in. When crossing a body of water in a manual, your best bet is to put it in second gear, low-range and drive steadily through. Don’t be tempted to pick up speed or change gears as the latter can cause water to get into the clutch. This might eventually lead to slippage of clutch trouble later on.

----------------------------------
This is me again: Maybe the seals hold, maybe they don't. I don't know. I'm gonna keep driving through water/mud like I've been doing since I was a kid, until someone gives me good evidence not to, or free rentals

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Like I indicated - I'm not an engineer. Just repeating some 40-year old advice that was the gospel back in the day. Having said that, it seems the advice I got has legs. The following blurb is from Dixie 4-Wheel Drive. I found it using The Google, but when I saw the source, I realized that I actually know a couple of these guys. The shop is in Moab, and they have worked on my vehicles in the past (JKU and Tacoma). Good dudes. Here is their blurb:

Crossing Rivers or Water

There’s always a thrill of anticipation when you’re standing at the edge of a river or stream waiting to go in. When crossing a body of water in a manual, your best bet is to put it in second gear, low-range and drive steadily through. Don’t be tempted to pick up speed or change gears as the latter can cause water to get into the clutch. This might eventually lead to slippage of clutch trouble later on.

----------------------------------
This is me again: Maybe the seals hold, maybe they don't. I don't know. I'm gonna keep driving through water/mud like I've been doing since I was a kid, until someone gives me good evidence not to, or free rentals

Ah, it's the CLUTCH they are concerned about....... If the clutch would have trouble then brakes should, too. That hot spinning flywheel should dry things out pretty quickly, IMO.
The only times I've seen clutch troubles is when a vehicle SITS for extended periods - in high humidity or changing weather and not well protected, they will STICK and not release.
I've never seen one that was wet "slip" later - but I've seen a lot of them not let loose.
It's fun to break them loose. Tougher on a motorcycle as you have to sort of run it carefully into a tree after you pull the clutch in. Tractors are easier - you can hit a tree and not hurt the tractor (much - but the poor tree)
I had to free a stuck clutch on a 258 Jeep - must have been a CJ, this was in about 1980

 

[AEsco48]

At what height are the vents at the back bulk head of the JT? Im talking about the ones that flap open when you shut a door for instance, they are located behind the rear seats.

 

[PyrPatriot]

I think this guy on 37s went a little too deep. Looking forward to next week's video to see if he made it

 

[Gvsukids]

Stock Overland with Rubicon wheels and tires.

 

[PyrPatriot]

Doing some searching for vids, seems like lots of folks when into deep water in their JKs. Wonder if there were any long-term electrical problems





And then freakin Land Cruisers driving under water

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Doing some searching for vids, seems like lots of folks when into deep water in their JKs. Wonder if there were any long-term electrical problems





And then freakin Land Cruisers driving under water

Apples and oranges in a way - water at reasonable speeds vs. going fast through muddy water with stuff flying up over the roof.
Water won't cause issues in normal cases (but like the BOOK says (RTFM) check fluids when done!)
These are water, not being tossed over the roof and speeds likely under 5 mph, if over, not much over.

And sorry, we weren't there and do not know the full story to this day. Likely we never will seeing some of the recent developments.

 

[Mtpisgah]

How water tight are our doors? I know e have floor drains, but I still hate the thought of going too deep and having to worry about drying out the carpet

 

[Blade1668]

How water tight are our doors? I know e have floor drains, but I still hate the thought of going too deep and having to worry about drying out the carpet

Now that is a very important thing.. door seals are normally good for first few years, my 90 XJ seals only allowed it to "slowly" fill up do to lower pressure on inside vs water pushing in from outside at 10 plus years old. Now on the cleaning and drying out that flat out sucks, don't forget the seats and any crevice or boxed in areas.
My XJ (and MJ windows open heavy T-storm) would still be draining a hours later. The reason I had to pull it's carpet out mold and mildew. The Wrangler's and probably our JT's have a "better" carpet for draining and cleaning. Take out hose out hang to drop dry put back in. No foam padding just a felted type backing. I've not had to much of problem with LJ but seat brackets can and do rust it's been through a lot of rain with out top and or doors. I'd have top and doors off for months with just a safari top or netting.
If the water and mud is over a foot or so deep, I plan on leaving to someone else's vehicles vs my JT. Just because you can don't mean you have to. I have done fording with Hummers, M35 2 1/2 ton trucks, 5 tons, M113 and Bradley fighting vehicle. The after party to clean up.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I need to post some of the pics I have from restorations and resurrections of various cars. They don't exactly powder coat these parts with a thick protective layer, and painted parts wear through where things rub or touch. Carpet, even the indoor-outdoor stuff, holds enough water against metal for long enough....... you know the deal - wet metal, the slightest compromise in the finish, a wet sponge holding water against it. And it's not the water necessarily, it's what is on the metal or in the water - the salts and dirt.
Any of my vehicles get water in them for any reason - vehicle goes inside, doors open, fans running.
I've spent days, weeks, years, repairing and replacing, patching, re-plating, powder coating, welding..............
I recently patched a car where the floor rotted where the seat brackets bolted through the carpet and the floor structure. And the seat brackets were rusted where they touched the carpet. Carpet was not rotted. It held moisture against things long enough that they rusted.

I know these things can go through water, rain storms, get wet inside and out, but still I recommend drying things out as fast as possible afterwards and keeping interiors cleaned and vacuumed as it's the dirt as much as anything that leads to the corrosive actions.

Sponsored