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Why no max tow with the manual transmission?

ShadowsPapa

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Did you put the tow package in the one on the left?
I've seen the online thing wrong before - and sometimes numbers are transposed on their print material, too!
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The trailer tow package reduces that payload - based on Jeep's chart.
That 1700 is for Sport S, no tow package.
With tow package, Sport and Sport S are 1225

2021-payload.png
I'm really failing to grok why the Sport S MT with tow package loses 500 lbs of payload capacity compared to the Sport S MT without the tow package. Which is not to say that I am saying that it isn't true, it just makes very little sense to me. The hardware on the Sport S, to go from "MT Sport S, no tow" to "MT Sport S, tow, but not max tow" can't possibly weigh 500 pounds, or anywhere close, and if anything the "tow, but not max tow" MT Sport S should have more robust springs than the "no tow" MT Sport S. Maybe they have to worry about worst-case dumb*** situations of people loading in the max payload and hitching up the max trailer weight, even though anyone who is following proper practice wouldn't do that
 

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Did you put the tow package in the one on the left?
I've seen the online thing wrong before - and sometimes numbers are transposed on their print material, too!
Yes, I did. I think they changed some stuff. I know the payload on the '21 Rubicon MTs is 100 lbs. lower than the '20s, too. Maybe they did some more testing, or revised springs for '21
 

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I'm really failing to grok why the Sport S MT with tow package loses 500 lbs of payload capacity compared to the Sport S MT without the tow package. Which is not to say that I am saying that it isn't true, it just makes very little sense to me. The hardware on the Sport S, to go from "MT Sport S, no tow" to "MT Sport S, tow, but not max tow" can't possibly weigh 500 pounds, or anywhere close, and if anything the "tow, but not max tow" MT Sport S should have more robust springs than the "no tow" MT Sport S. Maybe they have to worry about worst-case dumb*** situations of people loading in the max payload and hitching up the max trailer weight, even though anyone who is following proper practice wouldn't do that
If you build one on the site now, it doesn't anymore. They must have changed something. With or without tow, it still shows 1700 lbs on Sports and Freedoms now.
 

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I'm really failing to grok why the Sport S MT with tow package loses 500 lbs of payload capacity compared to the Sport S MT without the tow package. Which is not to say that I am saying that it isn't true, it just makes very little sense to me. The hardware on the Sport S, to go from "MT Sport S, no tow" to "MT Sport S, tow, but not max tow" can't possibly weigh 500 pounds, or anywhere close, and if anything the "tow, but not max tow" MT Sport S should have more robust springs than the "no tow" MT Sport S. Maybe they have to worry about worst-case dumb*** situations of people loading in the max payload and hitching up the max trailer weight, even though anyone who is following proper practice wouldn't do that
Yeah, my thoughts when I saw that chart. Holy cow - why would they lose THAT much? I can see some weight of the receiver, but that's only about 60 pounds.
 

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NachoRuby

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How would you read the chart? I'm not sure there's no typo, but it appears the difference is that Sport Manuals get 1200 lbs payload, but Sport S manuals get 1700 lbs? I wonder why? But both get 1225 lbs when equipped with the tow package. Now I'm even more confused.
Why does the regular sport have less payload than the sport S? And either their build site is wrong or their chart is.
Jeep Gladiator Why no max tow with the manual transmission? Screenshot_20210824-221643_Drive
 

syreeves

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You guys are hilarious.
So Sunday I was moving a trailer around my trailer yard with the Jeep instead of my big Ford. I like using the Jeep for parking that trailer after rentals because it's just more maneuverable and a lot easier to back up with. So since I was totally hooked up I said to the wife let's go see how it actually tows. Ours is an August 2019 build 6 speed Rubicon. This particular trailer is 4400lbs wet weighed on the scale so right at the max of what it's rated for. Got onto the freeway and in 3rd gear I could not get above 55mph going up a slight hill. In 4th I could maintain the 65mph speed limit on the flat. Since we don't have a transmission temperature gauge I was just watching engine coolant temp. Coolant temp cruising was 185 degrees. Go to the on ramp to head back, push the clutch in, and that coolant would almost immediately go to 220. After releasing the clutch rolling again it would drop back to 185. It did this every single time I pushed in the clutch. Definitely made me aware of how hot that clutch/transmission is getting. Jeep has assured everyone it's still rated for 4500lbs but I would not tow anywhere with it unless I absolutely had to. At the end of the day the Jeep will do it, extremely underpowered, but it was very stable, braked fine, but not knowing if the clutch would suddenly let go is a little unnerving. If I tow it again I'll make a video of the temperature gauge.
One question - I think a 6MT has no coolant or cooling fluid. Its a dry clutch plate. The temperature swing you saw on your engine coolant (i.e. lifting off the clutch at highway speed resulted in a engine coolant temperature rise) is from the engine speed slowing do idle and the coolant flow speed going down. When you were driving at 65 in 4th your engine speed was about 2800-3000ish right? At that engine speed there is cooling from the fuel being sprayed in the cylinders AND lots of coolant flowing through the engine but when the engine speed goes down the coolant flow speed goes down which results in hotter coolant. Correct me if I am wrong - but I am pretty sure this is what you saw.

Also - not trying to start any flame wars here. My main point is that the 6MT is not appropriate for heavy towing and can't match (at least on a regular basis over the life of the vehicle) the towing capacity with the 8-auto...
 

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How would you read the chart? I'm not sure there's no typo, but it appears the difference is that Sport Manuals get 1200 lbs payload, but Sport S manuals get 1700 lbs? I wonder why? But both get 1225 lbs when equipped with the tow package. Now I'm even more confused.
Why does the regular sport have less payload than the sport S? And either their build site is wrong or their chart is.
Jeep Gladiator Why no max tow with the manual transmission? Screenshot_20210824-221643_Drive
Perhaps the relatively benign configurations between the two make the difference.

Things like steel vs. aluminum wheels. Heavy-duty brakes and brake assist.

However, online the max payload is listed as 1700 for both trims.
 

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One question - I think a 6MT has no coolant or cooling fluid. Its a dry clutch plate. The temperature swing you saw on your engine coolant (i.e. lifting off the clutch at highway speed resulted in a engine coolant temperature rise) is from the engine speed slowing do idle and the coolant flow speed going down. When you were driving at 65 in 4th your engine speed was about 2800-3000ish right? At that engine speed there is cooling from the fuel being sprayed in the cylinders AND lots of coolant flowing through the engine but when the engine speed goes down the coolant flow speed goes down which results in hotter coolant. Correct me if I am wrong - but I am pretty sure this is what you saw.

Also - not trying to start any flame wars here. My main point is that the 6MT is not appropriate for heavy towing and can't match (at least on a regular basis over the life of the vehicle) the towing capacity with the 8-auto...
That is very possible like Shadows said as well, that because of changing RPM and speed it causes a spike in temperature not because of the transmission. I haven't actually looked under the Jeep to see if the transmission is cooled or not I just assumed that it had something to do with shifting but the airflow under the hood and water pump slowing down is a reasonable explanation.
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