2024/2025 JT+JL V6 Hurricane / 4xe / 392

[ShadowsPapa]

IMO the lack of info on future Gladiators and all the talk around the new Dakota is not a good sign

Lack of info? What info do you want? They've built it, likely no big changes, so what's to talk about. New colors?
It's an established truck, no new designs will be coming out until or unless they totally redesign the Wrangler as well.
Not sure what you mean - but what is there to talk about? Longer bed? LOL - no, 2 door? unlikely - it's already a niche truck and to burden their bottom line in today's economy - not likely.
What else could they do to the JT? There's probably a lot of vehicles out there where there's been a "lack of info on the future......." because the thing wasn't that old and there's no reason to change anything other than minor feature or options offering. It's only in the 3rd model year - don't look for big major stuff.
In fact, IMO, right now no news is good news as the news could be "2023 to be the end of the Gladiator".

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[ShadowsPapa]

Your statement is not factual and I have explained this in another thread.

The 3.0tt I6 uses the same architecture as the 2.0t I4. What does that mean, they took the 2.0 I4 and added 2 more cylinders to it. That how they can use the pistons and rod. If they share the same cylinder spacing........6 cannot go into 4

3.0 I6 / 6 = .50 liter per cylinder
2.0 I4 /4 = .50 liter per cylinder

REF from the article:
New Member of the Stellantis Propulsion System Family
The 3.0-liter Hurricane twin-turbo I-6 shares design features, including bore and stroke and cylinder spacing, with the globally produced turbocharged 2.0-liter I-4. In North America, the 2.0-liter engine is currently available in the Jeep® Wrangler, Wrangler 4xe, Cherokee and recently launched Grand Cherokee 4xe.

That reminds me of how the 4.0 came about in the 80s. Even to this day some AMC people believe it was born of the 258. That is not correct.
The 4.0 was born of the AMC 4cyl engine.
The 4cyl was in many ways a chopped 258 so shared a lot of the same spacing and design elements but the 4.0 was born when the people at VAN told AMC - hey, how about a new I6 based on the 4cyl.
AMC poo-poo'd the idea...... then later out came the 4.0 based on the 4cyl design and AMC gave partner VAM no credit.

Anyway, the way these things come about can almost look like a full circle.

One could come close to figuring the length of the new I6 based on the known numbers from the I4.

Fit or not isn't the issue - is it worth FCA's investment in the needed changes, certifications and more that California and the EU and U.S. EPA demand? Then there's the NHTSA needs.
Change one simple little thing and it's got to be explained and tracked and tested.
I mean - just the location of the FAN impacts evaporative emissions certs. Longer or shorter engine with a slightly different fan location and there's forms to fill out in triplicate.
The days of "it will fit" are out with grandpa's Rambler.

 

[BourbonRunner]

Fit or not isn't the issue - is it worth FCA's investment in the needed changes, certifications and more that California and the EU and U.S. EPA demand? Then there's the NHTSA needs.
Change one simple little thing and it's got to be explained and tracked and tested.
I mean - just the location of the FAN impacts evaporative emissions certs. Longer or shorter engine with a slightly different fan location and there's forms to fill out in triplicate.
The days of "it will fit" are out with grandpa's Rambler.

Ah, bureaucrats. Insert Hermes from Futurama gif here.

Pie in the sky idealism for a moment:

The Dakota most likely will share R&D with the JT to lower development costs. They'll likely use the same architecture like FCA did on the Durango and WK2 JGC with modifications.

And, like the JGC/D, they most likely will be built side by side in Toledo. No reason not to unless excess capacity isn't there. I don't know. But that thought prompted this in my progression:

I expect Chrystantis is debuting a Hurricane and 4xe-equivalent Dakota with the mods to the JT frame/design already federalized so it can debut quickly after the Dakota. It makes sense if you consider they'd have to retool the line if they share assemblies.

I'm gonna call it: if the Dakota is a solid '24, then at earliest late summer '23 we'll see 4xe and Hurricane JT's hitting lots as '24s.

PS: If we see orders for '23s cut off earlier than usual I might be right.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Ah, bureaucrats. Insert Hermes from Futurama gif here.

Pie in the sky idealism for a moment:

The Dakota most likely will share R&D with the JT to lower development costs. They'll likely use the same architecture like FCA did on the Durango and WK2 JGC with modifications.

And, like the JGC/D, they most likely will be built side by side in Toledo. No reason not to unless excess capacity isn't there. I don't know. But that thought prompted this in my progression:

I expect Chrystantis is debuting a Hurricane and 4xe-equivalent Dakota with the mods to the JT frame/design already federalized so it can debut quickly after the Dakota. It makes sense if you consider they'd have to retool the line if they share assemblies.

I'm gonna call it: if the Dakota is a solid '24, then at earliest late summer '23 we'll see 4xe and Hurricane JT's hitting lots as '24s.

PS: If we see orders for '23s cut off earlier than usual I might be right.

Did you notice that the Jeep Cherokee is dead and they are converting to EV production?

The Dakota if it happens would be a good place to put the Hurricane. Blank slate for the most part.

I can't see too much being shared between Wrangler/Gladiator and Dakota unless they make that little bugger a framed solid axle beast. Very doubtful. Nothing would convert over.
For the EPA (and thus CARB, even the tire sizes, weights, axle ratios and so on need to be reported.
I can see the Dakota sharing more with something like the WKx platform. (what will they do with all the work that went into the short-lived Cherokee?)

 

[Mr._Bill]

There won't be another engine in the JT until the next refresh cycle, and those will be economical choices, not performance options. FCA is not likely to pay for the required testing and certification, unless they can see a substantial increase in sales. They are also suffering from the current state of the economy.

 

[The Duck of Earl]

I would not expect to see the Hurricane in the JL/JT platform (if at all) until some time after it makes its way into the Grand Cherokee and RAM 1500 platforms and the Hemi is done. Making me believe that would be a 2025/2026 launch at the earliest.

 

[Uparms]

Your statement is not factual and I have explained this in another thread.

The 3.0tt I6 uses the same architecture as the 2.0t I4. What does that mean, they took the 2.0 I4 and added 2 more cylinders to it. That how they can use the pistons and rod. If they share the same cylinder spacing........6 cannot go into 4

3.0 I6 / 6 = .50 liter per cylinder
2.0 I4 /4 = .50 liter per cylinder

REF from the article:
New Member of the Stellantis Propulsion System Family
The 3.0-liter Hurricane twin-turbo I-6 shares design features, including bore and stroke and cylinder spacing, with the globally produced turbocharged 2.0-liter I-4. In North America, the 2.0-liter engine is currently available in the Jeep® Wrangler, Wrangler 4xe, Cherokee and recently launched Grand Cherokee 4xe.

Thanks for more details. What statement was not factual. I left most of the facts to the article/link??

 

[Uparms]

I would not expect to see the Hurricane in the JL/JT platform (if at all) until some time after it makes its way into the Grand Cherokee and RAM 1500 platforms and the Hemi is done. Making me believe that would be a 2025/2026 launch at the earliest.

I wish you were wrong but that sure makes great sense!

Going to be a long wait for an "If".

 

[legacy_etu]

I would not expect to see the Hurricane in the JL/JT platform (if at all) until some time after it makes its way into the Grand Cherokee and RAM 1500 platforms and the Hemi is done. Making me believe that would be a 2025/2026 launch at the earliest.

Totally agree on this. GC and 1500 will see it first as the volume is there for these vehicles. Also, with all the money Stellantis just dumped into the GC line, the one thing holding it back now is more power IMO and they are limiting the Hemi to only the High end trims. I feel they will want to remedy this to really let sales take off with the GC.

 

[ShrimpHappens]

I would not expect to see the Hurricane in the JL/JT platform (if at all) until some time after it makes its way into the Grand Cherokee and RAM 1500 platforms and the Hemi is done. Making me believe that would be a 2025/2026 launch at the earliest.

Good point. There were 2 or 3 model years where the 3.6L Pentastar was out and available in the Grand Cherokee but the JK Wrangler still had the old 3.8L.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Good point. There were 2 or 3 model years where the 3.6L Pentastar was out and available in the Grand Cherokee but the JK Wrangler still had the old 3.8L.

Durango, Charger, Challenger, and Grand Cherokee and I think one or two others got it for the 2016 model year.

2018 for Wrangler to get the upgraded 3.6

It was literally phased in. (and rather slowly but seeing what it takes to make such changes with the powers that be, it makes sense)

(EDIT - I'm referring to the 3.6 upgrade - not the original version of 3.6)

 

[Closet Jeep guy]

Durango, Charger, Challenger, and Grand Cherokee and I think one or two others got it for the 2016 model year.

2018 for Wrangler to get the upgraded 3.6

It was literally phased in. (and rather slowly but seeing what it takes to make such changes with the powers that be, it makes sense)

I had a 2015 wrangler sport with a 3.6...

 

[ShrimpHappens]

I had a 2015 wrangler sport with a 3.6...

I was thinking his timeline might have been off a bit. I think the Pentastar made its debut in the new-for-2011 WK2 Grand Cherokee and didn't show up in the JK until the 2012 model year.

Whatever, the point is (originally made by someone else) that there's a history of new engines being phased in, so it's not like everything will be totally switched to the Hurricane all at once.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Call me crazy or disagree as only time will tell, but I am going to make the outside bet that with all the new “deadlines” and goals for EVs that we have seen the end of the big engines and we will see most lines (including wranglers and JTs) moving completely to hybrid and full E as engines change over as opposed to anything else. Just look at Dodge with the charger and challenger.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I had a 2015 wrangler sport with a 3.6...

Not the upgraded 3.6. Wrangler didnt get it until most other fca vehicles had it.

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