0w40 Euro spec motor oil in the 3.6 Pentastar PSU

[jac04]

Lots of conjecture and feelings regarding oils.

Exactly. Oil discussions are always interesting and entertaining.

I think that some confusion stems from people assuming that a 0W40 oil has the same low temperature viscosity as a 0W20 oil simply because of the "0W" designation. If the new Pentastar sees higher wear at a 'cold' start with a higher viscosity oil, and the majority of wear takes place at start-up, then a 0W40 oil may not have the perceived benefits that people think it has.

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[bleda2002]

Now that my mind has been freed, I've decided to use my own mixture of straight weight 40 and 1 quart of 50w bar oil for tack modifiers, I'll report how it goes.

 

[sharpsicle]

Now that my mind has been freed, I've decided to use my own mixture of straight weight 40 and 1 quart of 50w bar oil for tack modifiers, I'll report how it goes.

 

[redriderjf87]

Because it's my prerogative to use whatever oil I want. The fact that it also brings me extreme pleasure to know how badly some of the most senior contributors on this forum hate my decision ---well that's just a bonus .

You avoided answering the original question.

 

[TheRealStreetcommander]

Approaching 9k miles. Time for another OC. No expressed issues with the 0-40w Euro. May go Rotella T6 this time. I’ll post when it happens and what I use.

Still very pleased with the JT and pentastar. Towed some heavy loads and worked it pretty hard. Lots of redline-play.
Driving civilized, got ~21mpg hand calc’ed over my 125-130 mile common commute. Stated differently, the heavier oil didn’t seem to hurt MPG.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Approaching 9k miles. Time for another OC. No expressed issues with the 0-40w Euro. May go Rotella T6 this time. I’ll post when it happens and what I use.

Still very pleased with the JT and pentastar. Towed some heavy loads and worked it pretty hard. Lots of redline-play.
Driving civilized, got ~21mpg hand calc’ed over my 125-130 mile common commute. Stated differently, the heavier oil didn’t seem to hurt MPG.

Would love to see an oil analysis report when you change it. Did you notice differences in how it ran to the 0/20?

 

[TheRealStreetcommander]

You are right Maximus Gladius. I'll attempt to send away for a sample kit today. If it's not here before I do the OC, I'll save a representative sample for later analysis.

Update: After some thoughtful consideration, and because we are now going to dabble in some real quasi-science with the OC analysis; I'm going to stick with 0w40 Euro to create another sample opportunity at the next OCI. This initial sample may come back showing that I've created a synthetic ferro-liquid or it may come back very clean --who knows. But with a second shot, we can duplicate the results at least.

Take luck.

 

[TheRealStreetcommander]

Sent it away to Blackstone. I’ll post the results when received. M1 0/40 Euro and a Mopar filter went back in.

 

[TheRealStreetcommander]

UOA came back. A quick forum search seemed to indicate these results are status quo for new engines tested at this mileage. Others may have collected a more complete breadth of data for Pentastar PU comparison --please share if so.

My takeaway is that these PU's don't seem to mind this higher viscosity oil. Being that Pentastar don't wear out at mileage less than 500k, and that they only really exhibit oil problems from the big lobe action at +3000rpm, I'm going to stick with 40 weight. I'll retest again around 50k or so, maybe.

Cold start flow is a popular talking point, but there's simply no evidence to indicate Pentatstar are afflicted by cold start lubrication problems. The only PU achilles heal (and it's a true phantom) seems to be the big lobe wear. Every bit of testing suggests on a higher pressure non-rollerized interface area, better film strength is key. If empirical testing results should be used for attributing film strength to oils, in terms of commonly available wollmart oils, any 40W will on average outperform even the better 20W's.

Everyone should please use the oil type they personally like or makes them feel comfortable. 99,999 out of 100,000 Pentastar owners could probably run unfiltered bacon-fat and still never see an oil related problem in 300k miles of use.

 

[Hootbro]

UOA came back. A quick forum search seemed to indicate these results are status quo for new engines tested at this mileage. Others may have collected a more complete breadth of data for Pentastar PU comparison --please share if so.

My takeaway is that these PU's don't seem to mind this higher viscosity oil. Being that Pentastar don't wear out at mileage less than 500k, and that they only really exhibit oil problems from the big lobe action at +3000rpm, I'm going to stick with 40 weight. I'll retest again around 50k or so, maybe.

Cold start flow is a popular talking point, but there's simply no evidence to indicate Pentatstar are afflicted by cold start lubrication problems. The only PU achilles heal (and it's a true phantom) seems to be the big lobe wear. Every bit of testing suggests on a higher pressure non-rollerized interface area, better film strength is key. If empirical testing results should be used for attributing film strength to oils, in terms of commonly available wollmart oils, any 40W will on average outperform even the better 20W's.

Everyone should please use the oil type they personally like or makes them feel comfortable. 99,999 out of 100,000 Pentastar owners could probably run unfiltered bacon-fat and still never see an oil related problem in 300k miles of use.

I think that Iron is a tad high for already having one dump and fill before this analysis.

At 39 PPM, that is usually the range for the first analysis on the factory fill. All three of my Gladiators had similar numbers on the factory fill but tapered off and almost halved that on next oil analysis.

In my opinion, you need to be trending down in like the 20's PPM on your next oil analysis and into the teens past 15K miles.

Attached is the latest one I have from a few weeks ago. I used 5W-30 on my last oil change analysis but the remainder are factory fill and using 0W-20.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

My 2 cents here is to write how I would feel if I saw those #’s in my report and I’d be changing again early in hopes to lower the metals like aluminum, copper, iron, chromium and silicon. I know changing early will result in lower numbers but my point is if your higher levels are in suspension, it’s just causing wear that can be avoided.

I’m dealing with trying to lower my own numbers only because when my 3.6 was replaced new, I got it back with 12L of oil in it and I drove it over 1500k km to BC and back before I dumped the oil and was shocked to find this mistake. I’m just around 30k km on the engine and multiple early oil changes AND a magnetic plug and my iron levels are over 50ppm and I don’t know why. I watch my reports that might elude to internal damage and the high IRON might be saying something but the other metals are super low which tells me the engine is doing great.

My copper, aluminum and silicon are good (yes I use an oiled K$N filter as I always have) but I am not seeing the iron come down. Engine is super quiet and strong.

 

[TheRealStreetcommander]

At 39 PPM, that is usually the range for the first analysis on the factory fill

Yes, I agree the iron is higher than I'd prefer in a perfect world. That said, if I'm reading yours correctly, in you first 2 OCs, my iron is identical or perhaps a bit lower than yours when normalized for mileage interval ~6ppm/1000 miles vs. 6.6ppm/1000 miles --statistically insignificant probably. We have interestingly similar co-results from two very different oil selections. I'll assume that as yours slowed down throwing iron after ~6K, mine should too.

Thank you for sharing your data.

 

[TheRealStreetcommander]

I’m just around 30k km on the engine and multiple early oil changes AND a magnetic plug and my iron levels are over 50ppm and I don’t know why.

Am I reading your UOA correctly? Approximately 5000km since the new engine at 30,000km? In which case, you'd be showing a slightly higher break-in iron than what's been discussed in this thread, but not egregiously.

If your UOA indicate aggregate mileage post new engine, then yes your iron is a bit higher than what I've anecdotally seen as normal. I know you have been very scientific in your analysis and research process. What have you found and where are you leaning? How much mileage is on the actual big lobe, would you estimate.

For comparison, my JT didn't get on the lobe more than perhaps 2-5% of actual run-time, except for the 800 miles of very heavy towing I did in this UOA interval. Conservatively, it spent ~65% of those 800 towing miles on the big lobe. Even the empty trailer weight kept the engine spun up at 4-4500rpm most of the time.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Am I reading your UOA correctly? Approximately 5000km since the new engine at 30,000km? In which case, you'd be showing a slightly higher break-in iron than what's been discussed in this thread, but not egregiously.

If your UOA indicate aggregate mileage post new engine, then yes your iron is a bit higher than what I've anecdotally seen as normal. I know you have been very scientific in your analysis and research process. What have you found and where are you leaning? How much mileage is on the actual big lobe, would you estimate.

For comparison, my JT didn't get on the lobe more than perhaps 2-5% of actual run-time, except for the 800 miles of very heavy towing I did in this UOA interval. Conservatively, it spent ~65% of those 800 towing miles on the big lobe. Even the empty trailer weight kept the engine spun up at 4-4500rpm most of the time.

I have 35k kms on the engine and just over 5k kms on the oil sample.
Jury is out as to where I’m leaning but I think having done that first 1500 km trip on the brand new engine with 12L of oil in it had a negative effect on it. But it’s only reading bad at the iron levels. I’m super pleased with the other metals. I don’t pull a trailer and I do mostly city driving but most of that is on the freeways getting around the city.

 

[TheRealStreetcommander]

with 12L of oil in it had a negative effect on it.

Ouch. The OC tech clearly picked up the quality and substance of the Pentastar and mistook it for a Cummins Cummins take 11 or 12 quarts on an OC, if memory serves me.

Generally, I've always felt that the engines I've been inside of could be overfilled by at least 2 quarts without fear of crank strike or oil aeration. At 6 quarts overfilled, I share your concern.

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