Jeep CEO admits last CEO was bad

[WestwallNF104A]

Who said anything about banning the use of petroleum products? You can't even do a brake job on an EV without greasing the slide pins - but I think I have a diagnostic code for people who think it's the same as just lighting oil on fire for fuel.

The point the show was making is oil is necessary for EVERYTHING. The world ceases to function without it save at a very low level. So called green energy is first off, not green, nor is it reliable enough to keep civilization going.

Ivanpah, that 2 billion dollar boondoggle in the California desert was supposed to be the new wave of solar power generation. The operators have completely abandoned the solar side of the operation and it is now entirely a natural gas using power generator.

That's what Landman was alluding to.

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[Jrgunn5150]

Yes, the show is fiction, but the point it made is sound. There is no point in the production of windmills that isn't heavily dependent on the use of oil. If you banned the use of any oil product in their creation, they couldn't be made.

Yes the show is fiction and none of those points are accurate, but it reaffirms my beliefs so I share it anyway.

 

[WestwallNF104A]

Yes the show is fiction and none of those points are accurate, but it reaffirms my beliefs so I share it anyway.

Actually, they are accurate, and that points out another issue, most people have very little science knowledge. Myself included, so I researched the heck out of green energy systems because I wanted to use them. The research I did was very thorough and disappointing.

I discovered that windmills are useless. Here in Reno the city invested in four windmills at great expense. They decommissioned them after two years because they figured out that they were costing far more to maintain than they were generating.

There's a guy up in the Washoe valley. He has a windmill. I talked with him about his experiences with it. He too stopped using it. He still has a very nice solar array, and that gives him good service for about 7 months of the year. So is worth maintaining. I too wish to install a solar system on my home, but it's a historic building so I have many hoops to jump through. I have a nice solar system on my Gladiator, and love it. Allows me to stay off grid for weeks at a time if I am careful with my usage.

But oil runs the world, and will continue to do so till nukes take over.

 

[Bandit’s Lair]

Small scale wind generators make sense in residential applications that get wind. I’m planning to add 2 to my system that are around 400w output to my low PV input just to generate some power 24/7. We usually have a breeze where I am and having a slight charge on the battery system only helps. We don’t use more than about 500w during the night when everything attached to the solar side is running anyway. That slight boost keeps more cents in my pocket and out of the power company’s. That’s my goal for “going green”.

 

[Sweetums]

The point the show was making is oil is necessary for EVERYTHING. The world ceases to function without it save at a very low level. So called green energy is first off, not green, nor is it reliable enough to keep civilization going.

Ivanpah, that 2 billion dollar boondoggle in the California desert was supposed to be the new wave of solar power generation. The operators have completely abandoned the solar side of the operation and it is now entirely a natural gas using power generator.

That's what Landman was alluding to.

Uh, check your facts, Ivanpah isn't closed, they had proposed closing in 2026 to update equipment to a different collection method, but that is currently on hold and the facility remains operational. It currently produces 392 megawatts. The main reason for the proposed closure was because in 2009 this was the best solar tech available, but today they are having trouble competing with more efficient renewable energy production technology and they need to update.

The only natural gas used on site is to generate steam as part of the startup process each day, once that's done the sun takes over.

Reading the first three paragraphs of the Ivanpah wikipedia page will do wonders...

 

[WestwallNF104A]

Uh, check your facts, Ivanpah isn't closed, they had proposed closing in 2026 to update equipment to a different collection method, but that is currently on hold and the facility remains operational. It currently produces 392 megawatts. The main reason for the proposed closure was because in 2009 this was the best solar tech available, but today they are having trouble competing with more efficient renewable energy production technology and they need to update.

Reading the first three paragraphs of the Ivanpah wikipedia page will do wonders...

Wiki is wrong. The only part of Ivanpah that is running is the nat gas side. And that has been for at least two years now. Feel free to look at aerial photos and you can see the heliostats are falling apart. Dozens are shattered on the ground. The similar system outside of Tonopah IS operational, we pass by it every two weeks or so and have gotten friendly with the workers there.

They confirmed to me years ago that Ivanpah was having severe problems.

 

[Sweetums]

And updating equipment to something more efficient sure seems like a good solution for that. The fact is renewables are the way to go, it's just harvesting energy that's part of the environment. The UK, for example, passed over 50% of their energy production being from renewables.

No matter how you slice it, renewables make sense. Even if you don't care about the environment (which just seems weird to me), energy independence is a major economic and defense strategy. There's no good argument against renewables that makes any dammed sense.

 

[WestwallNF104A]

And updating equipment to something more efficient sure seems like a good solution for that. The fact is renewables are the way to go, it's just harvesting energy that's part of the environment. The UK, for example, passed over 50% of their energy production being from renewables.

No matter how you slice it, renewables make sense. Even if you don't care about the environment (which just seems weird to me), energy independence is a major economic and defense strategy. There's no good argument against renewables that makes any dammed sense.

And the UK has some of the highest electrical costs in the world. And they too are having people freeze to death in the winter. 4950 I belive is the most recently reported number of "excess deaths" due to freezing to death thanks to the high cost of heating the homes.

If renewables made sense you wouldn't have to force people to use them.

It really is that simple.

 

[Sweetums]

And the UK has some of the highest electrical costs in the world. And they too are having people freeze to death in the winter. 4950 I belive is the most recently reported number of "excess deaths" due to freezing to death thanks to the high cost of heating the homes.

If renewables made sense you wouldn't have to force people to use them.

It really is that simple.

The UK still has a lot of homes burning oil for heat and over 80% of UK homes use natural gas boilers for heat. The cost of heating is one of the reasons they have been building out their domestic energy production infrastructure. The cost of natural gas in the European market was far too dependent on Russian sources to set the prices.

Again, secure domestic production of energy was an economic and strategic decision for domestic security. Nations that don't have enough oil or gas to meet domestic need - or where extraction would cause other economic harm, need to develop renewables.

 

[WestwallNF104A]

The UK still has a lot of homes burning oil for heat and over 80% of UK homes use natural gas boilers for heat. The cost of heating is one of the reasons they have been building out their domestic energy production infrastructure. The cost of natural gas in the European market was far too dependent on Russian sources to set the prices.

Again, secure domestic production of energy was an economic and strategic decision for domestic security. Nations that don't have enough oil or gas to meet domestic need - or where extraction would cause other economic harm, need to develop renewables.

Agreed. But I seem to remember they have a ton of oil in the North Sea.

Why aren't they using that instead? I think that 80% of their production goes to the EU. Instead of building out "renewables" of dubious value they could exploit the oil they already have.

But government regulations prevent them from doing so.

So people pay higher electricity costs, and freeze in the winter.

Doesn't sound very smart to me.

 

[Sweetums]

Probably because they are protecting their renewable resources, like stable fisheries, which makes a lot of economic sense in the long term.

The failure of anti-renewable pundits is a glaring lack of awareness of interdependent systems or anything beyond the next quarterly report.

 

[WestwallNF104A]

Probably because they are protecting their renewable resources, like stable fisheries, which makes a lot of economic sense in the long term.

The failure of anti-renewable pundits is a glaring lack of awareness of interdependent systems or anything beyond the next quarterly report.

I disagree. If renewable energy systems worked as advertised people would be buying them left and right. They aren't buying because the systems aren't very good. Part of that problem is the government has been subsidizing them for so long that there is no punishment for failure.

The solar on my truck cost 6k in materials, and another 4k in installation because I want anything electrical to be 100% perfect. Zero Declination here in Reno did my install, and I love it. But fir that investment I have 345 watts of installed solar, but the best I have ever realized is 220. I also have a BattleBorn 270ah battery that kicks ass.

But that's a lot of cash to lay out for a system that at best will go for three days of heavy use. If I want to rapidly recharge my house battery after a little bit of cooking I have to start up the truck. It will charge in an hour what my solar takes a day to accomplish.

Now let's look at a house system. You are looking at 25k to get a basic system with no battery backup, which is useless in my opinion. You're most likely to need emergency power when the Sun isn't shining, so a solar system without a battery is silly. So, add 18k on top of your 25k to get a system with enough power to keep you going for a week.

That's a lot to spend. I feel it's worth it because we have a lot of power outages and I don't like being uncomfortable anymore! I'm old!

So I am willing to spend that to ensure I can be comfortable even when the power is out.

 

[MPMB]

It's hilarious to realize people forget we used to live in caves and sleep under the stars.

There's nothing wrong with rolling back the clock a few decades on how we live. Less waste, less consumption.

 

[Viper501]

It's hilarious to realize people forget we used to live in caves and sleep under the stars.

There's nothing wrong with rolling back the clock a few decades on how we live. Less waste, less consumption.

You first. And everyone else who wants to roll back the clock. You’re welcome to go ahead and go back as far into the past as you’d like. Enjoy the ‘creature’ comforts, including the disease, pestilence, and all the rest. I’ll take my time enjoying the technological advances that we have.

[ @MPMB Sorry. That sounds like I’m being snarky but I’m not trying to be. I think everyone should be able to enjoy life the way that they want as long as it doesn’t impede others. Forcing ‘efficiency’ down other people’s throats (i.e. government ‘mandates’ because a bureaucrat knows better) is what bothers me.

My problems with these ‘green’ concepts are multifold and have been repeated several times through these four pages.

1. Government subsistence (aka Corporate welfare) does not work once the crutch is removed. Just like Darwin, failure (death) is a root indicator of a poorly designed system. Without the tax incentives and other corporate welfare most of these companies would not be around any longer. (One might even argue that the venture capitalists would not have invested in them either.) That’s counter productive since you want the efficiency to increase. Sadly, evolution requires death of inefficient entities. I wish that Washington would stop propping up risk takers when they fail. The 2008 housing bubble is another example of letting the weak die thereby improving the health of the herd. Most of those companies should have been allowed to die. Chrysler in the 80s was another one. Let the more efficient operators come in and pick up the scattered corpse and use it as fertilizer.

2. The systems are not ready for widespread deployment. When they are ready for prime time then the market will decide that they are worth the investment. Currently they are not net positive in even the best cases. Is it worth continued research? Yes.

3. Most importantly, China, India, and the rest of the industrial developers are not going to slow their roll to please / appease us. They are full bore on anything it takes to compete economically without any real regard for the environment. Look at the massive amount of pollution coming from those environments (airborne and otherwise) and it’s pretty easy to conclude our 400 million folks aren’t making a dent in the ‘environment’. Imagine what the US would have said in the 19th century to someone from the future telling them that they were emitting too much airborne pollution through their coal fired plants.

I sincerely hope the technology does improve to a point that those systems are economically viable on their own and function / perform at a standard equal to what we currently enjoy. However I’m not holding my breath until that happens.

[stepping off my soapbox]

 

[WestwallNF104A]

It's hilarious to realize people forget we used to live in caves and sleep under the stars.

There's nothing wrong with rolling back the clock a few decades on how we live. Less waste, less consumption.

And a whole lot fewer people. Like billions. And I like being able to do my everyday humdrum things.

Things that I wouldn't if we returned back to even an 1880's level of tech.

Much less caveman times.

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