Jeep CEO admits last CEO was bad

[Bandit’s Lair]

Gotta wonder how many in this discussion thread actually have solar installed and working for them.

Does it save you money? Not really. The upfront cost is pretty bad.

Is it making you as green as the Jolly Green Giant? Nah too much bad ish goes into making the components.

We got way off topic with this one but just suffice it to say it ain’t for everyone. Gotta weigh the pros and cons for you and your situation. Common Jeeple ain’t gonna change govt entities minds about going renewable or not. Money talks and moaning/complaining walks.

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[Rusty PW]

Ok.... I spent 15 yrs as a senior control room operator at a natural gas combine cycle power plant. In contact with the grid operator all the time. When the grid operator ask for generation. First on is the nuke plant because they are the cheapest per mW. Next is the natural gas combine cycle plants. Second cheapest per mW. Next is coal fired. When I first started, this was reversed between coal and gas. Then the tax subsidized wind and solar. Then the non-subsidized wind and solar because they are the most expensive per mW.

Wish there were more nuke plants. But the cost to build is a wet dream. Takes 3 or more companies to go together to fund it. One company couldn't do it. 2 to 3 billion for permits which take years. Then 15 to 20 billion to build not counting cost over runs, and 15 to 20 years to build. Then you have the NIMBY's. Not In My Back Yard idiots.

 

[Bandit’s Lair]

. Then you have the NIMBY's. Not In My Back Yard idiots.

If they ever get to the point of safely scaling them to residential I’d jump on one in a heartbeat.

 

[Rusty PW]

If they ever get to the point of safely scaling them to residential I’d jump on one in a heartbeat.

If you were in NASA. You MIGHT be able to steal one that they used to use in satellites. That's what Voyager 1 and 2 use.

 

[MPMB]

You first. And everyone else who wants to roll back the clock. You’re welcome to go ahead and go back as far into the past as you’d like. Enjoy the ‘creature’ comforts, including the disease, pestilence, and all the rest. I’ll take my time enjoying the technological advances that we have.

[ @MPMB Sorry. That sounds like I’m being snarky but I’m not trying to be. I think everyone should be able to enjoy life the way that they want as long as it doesn’t impede others. Forcing ‘efficiency’ down other people’s throats (i.e. government ‘mandates’ because a bureaucrat knows better) is what bothers me.

My problems with these ‘green’ concepts are multifold and have been repeated several times through these four pages.

1. Government subsistence (aka Corporate welfare) does not work once the crutch is removed. Just like Darwin, failure (death) is a root indicator of a poorly designed system. Without the tax incentives and other corporate welfare most of these companies would not be around any longer. (One might even argue that the venture capitalists would not have invested in them either.) That’s counter productive since you want the efficiency to increase. Sadly, evolution requires death of inefficient entities. I wish that Washington would stop propping up risk takers when they fail. The 2008 housing bubble is another example of letting the weak die thereby improving the health of the herd. Most of those companies should have been allowed to die. Chrysler in the 80s was another one. Let the more efficient operators come in and pick up the scattered corpse and use it as fertilizer.

2. The systems are not ready for widespread deployment. When they are ready for prime time then the market will decide that they are worth the investment. Currently they are not net positive in even the best cases. Is it worth continued research? Yes.

3. Most importantly, China, India, and the rest of the industrial developers are not going to slow their roll to please / appease us. They are full bore on anything it takes to compete economically without any real regard for the environment. Look at the massive amount of pollution coming from those environments (airborne and otherwise) and it’s pretty easy to conclude our 400 million folks aren’t making a dent in the ‘environment’. Imagine what the US would have said in the 19th century to someone from the future telling them that they were emitting too much airborne pollution through their coal fired plants.

I sincerely hope the technology does improve to a point that those systems are economically viable on their own and function / perform at a standard equal to what we currently enjoy. However I’m not holding my breath until that happens.

[stepping off my soapbox]

Notice I said "decades" and not "centuries." While I, too, enjoy the comforts of modern life, things have become too convenient without making our lives convenient.

In the book Jurassic Park, there's a line in there where Ian Malcolm make a point that we (humans) haven't advanced as a society in the "atomic" age. In the roughly 40-50 years, it still takes the same amount of time to clean a house, to cook a healthy dinner, etc. Oh, sure, you can have a Roomba vacuum, but you got to make sure it doesn't get caught under the couch or fall down the stairs or get high-centered on a pile of dog s**t. We still work 40 hours or more for more pay, the buying power is actually less.

So have we actually improved/advanced?

CA (and other places) bans plastic grocery bags at checkout, but probably 95%+ of items in grocery stores come in plastic packaging! Does that make sense?

 

[MPMB]

If they ever get to the point of safely scaling them to residential I’d jump on one in a heartbeat.

I don't know if you'd want to jump on one, per se.

 

[Bandit’s Lair]

 

[WestwallNF104A]

Notice I said "decades" and not "centuries." While I, too, enjoy the comforts of modern life, things have become too convenient without making our lives convenient.

In the book Jurassic Park, there's a line in there where Ian Malcolm make a point that we (humans) haven't advanced as a society in the "atomic" age. In the roughly 40-50 years, it still takes the same amount of time to clean a house, to cook a healthy dinner, etc. Oh, sure, you can have a Roomba vacuum, but you got to make sure it doesn't get caught under the couch or fall down the stairs or get high-centered on a pile of dog s**t. We still work 40 hours or more for more pay, the buying power is actually less.

So have we actually improved/advanced?

CA (and other places) bans plastic grocery bags at checkout, but probably 95%+ of items in grocery stores come in plastic packaging! Does that make sense?

Nope. Makes no sense at all. A good friend of mine, a retired professor, said that all of the " green" laws were designed to turn the middle class back into Serfs.

There's a lot of truth in that.

 

[ecidiego]

For what a new battery costs every four years or so the gas in the long-run would likely be the same or cheaper and all the time you spend charging adds up to.

You absolutely do not change the battery every 4 years or so. I have no idea who put that into your head. Well.... I actually do. I spend absolutely no time charging. The vehicle charges while I sleep. Once a week I plug it in at 8pm, it's done by 2am, and I unplug it when I leave in the AM and repeat a week later.

Oh.... the horror...

Gladiator : 285mi per $110 fill
Blazer EV : 335mi per 7 hr weekly charge for $0.

Gladiator would cost $440/mo in gas for what the EV does for free. ' EVs just aren't ready yet.... '. lol. I feel like I'm taking to bots.

Please apply your logic using what you ' read on the Internet ' about EVs. Why do I have a Gladiator? For fun in the desert. Who would drive one as a daily commuter? lol @ spending a fortune on gas and wearing tires out to drive to work and run errands.

lmfao. I bring receipts. The EV haters bring political rhetoric, ad hominem attacks, and logical fallacies. ' .... bu bu bu but I read on the Internet...... '

LMFAO!

 

[ecidiego]

' I saw a guy on the Internet who needed a new EV battery after 1 year '

Yeah? I saw many guys here who needed a new Gladiator engine after 3 months.

These are outlier anecdotes and rare. The vast majority of EV battery packs will last 15 years or more, 300,000 miles or more. FACTS.

You guys are in confirmation bias loops and it is very sad to see. Use your brains.

 

[ecidiego]

You know that show is fiction and the amount of oil consumed to make renewable energy is inconsequential compared to burning it for fuel, right? Stop getting your information from entertainment shows.

Dude these people are hopeless. It's a shame that abundant energy became a political topic and people picked sides like a football team or something.

People who own EVs bring receipts. People who have never owned or driven one think they're some kind of subject matter experts. They know... they have the Internet and their algorithm delivered 'truths'. They’ve done their ' research ' bro......effing hilarious. I've got EV and ICE. Informed opinion. Luddites only have ICE.

I've had some of my most hard headed ' muh V8 ' friends in the EV.... they're always sold instantly. The only reason for a gas vehicle these days is remote fun ( Jeep ) and towing shit. EVs destroy ICE in every other category. But they're.....just.....not.....REAAADYYY yet. lol

 

[WilldWilly]

You absolutely do not change the battery every 4 years or so. I have no idea who put that into your head. Well.... I actually do. I spend absolutely no time charging. The vehicle charges while I sleep. Once a week I plug it in at 8pm, it's done by 2am, and I unplug it when I leave in the AM and repeat a week later.

Oh.... the horror...

Gladiator : 285mi per $110 fill
Blazer EV : 335mi per 7 hr weekly charge for $0.

Gladiator would cost $440/mo in gas for what the EV does for free. ' EVs just aren't ready yet.... '. lol. I feel like I'm taking to bots.

Please apply your logic using what you ' read on the Internet ' about EVs. Why do I have a Gladiator? For fun in the desert. Who would drive one as a daily commuter? lol @ spending a fortune on gas and wearing tires out to drive to work and run errands.

lmfao. I bring receipts. The EV haters bring political rhetoric, ad hominem attacks, and logical fallacies. ' .... bu bu bu but I read on the Internet...... '

LMFAO!

I am confused. So, you are saying your cost to charge an EV Blazer is $0? So, you do not pay for the electricity in your home? You are paying $10,400 more for the EV Blazer than the ICE Blazer. And $440 per month for gas? That is like $5 per gallon. That is insane, you must live in California. EVs are ok. I have no issue with them, but people who buy them tent to be unrealistic. All that money you saved in gas was spent up front to purchase. Even when you factor tax rebates. Free to you, but the cost comes from some place. And $5 a gallon when most of the rest of the country is under $3.
Of course, people bring political rhetoric. It is the political rhetoric that has you thinking you are not paying for that EV blazer in up-front cost, tax rebates come from the tax rebates are a gift from the government for hugging trees really tight, and that $5 per gallon for gas is a fair price.
I have not even gotten into the "Where does the EV batteries come from, and how do we dispose of them" conversation or the Dino needed to make all the plastics in said EV. The idea that EVs are clean, and cheap to drive, and earth friendly is the myth. And to charge to 80%? What is that? When I fill my tank, it goes to near 100%
I thought this thread was about the CEO of Jeep. I think the CEO of Jeep should now and always be a business-oriented Jeep enthusiast. How can you understand your product if you do not understand your customers. Building EVs is a good thing, but to focus on that when you build a vehicle like the Wrangler/Gladiator is insane. You need people at the top to understand the Jeep consumer, the product they buy, how they drive it, and their relationship to it. EV UTVs do not sell well. Why? Because you can't charge them in the woods. A ICE powered UTV can run out of gas, and you at least can get gas, and bring it to it should you need too. So not everything is EV ready, and the CEO needs to understand this, and should understand this if he or she is going to run Jeep. Why can't we just get more gas hybrids? Toyota seems to be the front runner in that.

 

[Stuntman Mike]

Countries, like Germany, which have gone all in on green energy pay three times what everyone else pays, and it isn't reliable to the point where people freeze to death in Germany every year.

The first statement is correct, the second is just wrong.

In Germany about 10 persons are freezing to dead per year and these are mostly homeless people.
The last winter where 100 thousands were dying was 1946/47, reasons for that are known.

Talking about reliability, I live in my current home for about 17 1/2 years now and during that time I had one power outage of less than 1 hour.

And I agree that the last CEO was bad.

 

[Bandit’s Lair]

Mike, you are lucky. A couple years back we had a wildfire burn out 1 mile of electric line. Power outage lasted 10 days. They couldn’t get to it while the fire was deemed a danger and then they had to get the resources there to make the repair. We had intermittent power from industrial generators. Usually 2 hours every other day while they cycled through the circuits but it got me thinking what if 2 miles or 10 miles got burned up. How long would that outage be? We’re all electric here on a well. No power means no water or anything. Solar is my survival hack.

 

[WestwallNF104A]

The first statement is correct, the second is just wrong.

In Germany about 10 persons are freezing to dead per year and these are mostly homeless people.
The last winter where 100 thousands were dying was 1946/47, reasons for that are known.

Talking about reliability, I live in my current home for about 17 1/2 years now and during that time I had one power outage of less than 1 hour.

And I agree that the last CEO was bad.

Look up excess deaths due to cold. Currently Germany suffers 8.3 to 1 deaths from cold vs heat.

And yes, Tavares was a disaster!

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