New JT Gladiator Steering Issue TSB 08-074-20 (for "Improved Steering Feel")

[smlobx]

Good lord now I am so pissed.

I went under the truck just to check based on this information on the forum here.

Guess what!

Wrong effin part!!!

These fools actually installed a JL steering box. You have to be friggin kidding me!!!!!

3rd trip back to the dealer. I'm a nice guy but I gotta tell ya, I'm getting close to losing it.

Well I guess I should feel a little better since I’m not the only one with a stupid dealer...

EVERYONE NEEDS TO VERIFY THAT THE CORRECT PART FOR THEIR GLADIATOR IS INSTALLED BEFORE THEY DRIVE OFF THE LOT !!!

What pisses me off is that I brought in the TSB and showed it to them...

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[smlobx]

On another note Jeep is hoping to compete with high end manufacturers when they roll out their Grand Wagoneer that will sell for $77-100K.
Do they think that people will buy something like that and stand for being treated like a POS??
Absolutely not. Just as an FYI my Porsche dealer will come to my house and pick up my car even for routine service. The car is returned with a light detailing and in perfect shape in just a day or so depending on what was done.

 

[danielspivey]

On another note Jeep is hoping to compete with high end manufacturers when they roll out their Grand Wagoneer that will sell for $77-100K.
Do they think that people will buy something like that and stand for being treated like a POS??
Absolutely not. Just as an FYI my Porsche dealer will come to my house and pick up my car even for routine service. The car is returned with a light detailing and in perfect shape in just a day or so depending on what was done.

I’m not 40 yet, but when I bought an Infiniti first out of school the dealership experience was phenomenal. I’m at the point (in age) where I’m about to go back to luxury brands simply because I’m sick and tired of the BS from Toyota, Jeep and Honda. It’s like a battle every time you go in these places, and honestly I don’t trust them worth a shit.

Im no mechanic, but I’m good with my hands and I trust myself with a YouTube video more than a young kid in a dealer who’s pissed he had to come in to work for $20 an hour when the dealer is charging 6/7 fold of his hourly rate for service. These dealers charge as much as doctors per hour, and everyone bitches at the cost of healthcare.

Can you imagine having a knee replaced or cardiac surgery from a 20 year old making $25 an hour Who went to school to learn to do it for 1 year?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Then the repair tech should have been fired. It's not his job to determine if a TSB applies to a vehicle.

Then who does? The only other person would be service manager if shops even have them any more.
Service writers do not. They simply take in the work and write up the orders.
What if the truck had been damaged? The tech sees a smacked axle and should consider taking care of that first - otherwise the truck will come back with the same or more missues.
THIS TSB is pretty specific, but still the TECH looks for the codes or issues mentioned in the TSB first.

In most TSBs it is up to the tech to investigate. There's no one else who can.

But since this one is very specific - they look for trouble codes, do as the TSB says, then move forward if no other errors or codes are found.
But other TSBs - the tech makes the determination.

I'd say in this case, it's not fully up to them to say if THIS TSB applies but it is up to them to see if A TSB applies.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I’m not 40 yet, but when I bought an Infiniti first out of school the dealership experience was phenomenal. I’m at the point (in age) where I’m about to go back to luxury brands simply because I’m sick and tired of the BS from Toyota, Jeep and Honda. It’s like a battle every time you go in these places, and honestly I don’t trust them worth a shit.

Im no mechanic, but I’m good with my hands and I trust myself with a YouTube video more than a young kid in a dealer who’s pissed he had to come in to work for $20 an hour when the dealer is charging 6/7 fold of his hourly rate for service. These dealers charge as much as doctors per hour, and everyone bitches at the cost of healthcare.

Can you imagine having a knee replaced or cardiac surgery from a 20 year old making $25 an hour Who went to school to learn to do it for 1 year?

Where do you live?
1 year? Really?
it was a two year degree for me. And I had to already be at a certain level to get there.
And then there was factory training I attended multiple times.

As a Mercedes tech, I could make 6 figures in some places. Typical starting for someone of my level would be $85,000.

This ain't exactly surgery - it's not even a fair comparison to the doctors and nurses of the world - that's why I have trouble understanding the issues with the steering TSB and the engine miss thing. It's not that hard.

You have to know a whole lot more to be a doctor or a nurse - an ARNP is almost a doctor, so I'm leaving out our heroes from this discussion.

 

[danielspivey]

Where do you live?
1 year? Really?
it was a two year degree for me. And I had to already be at a certain level to get there.
And then there was factory training I attended multiple times.

As a Mercedes tech, I could make 6 figures in some places. Typical starting for someone of my level would be $85,000.

This ain't exactly surgery - it's not even a fair comparison to the doctors and nurses of the world - that's why I have trouble understanding the issues with the steering TSB and the engine miss thing. It's not that hard.

You have to know a whole lot more to be a doctor or a nurse - an ARNP is almost a doctor, so I'm leaving out our heroes from this discussion.

Wasn’t Trying to trash your profession at all... just to make the comparison that dealers charge the same per hour to work on cars as physicians do on humans.

Just doesn’t make sense.

Also, when you combine over charging by jobs that’s are “fixed hours” it’s gets even worse. There was a boat mechanic that used to live in my town who would charge people a killing on cleaning the carbs... he would charge a set Hourly amount for each carb, and other work, even though it took him far less to do it when he had things apart. I remember he cleaned the carbs on one guys motor, impeller and oil change... had it done in about 2.5 hours.,, charged the guy for around 8 hours. The guys was in there bitching how are you going to charge me 8 hours when I dropped it off less than 4 hours ago?

Some get screwed when you have a novice dragging on the hourly rate and you get screwed when you are an expert charging you for more hours than it really took them. The local auto shop here in my town has experienced guys who charge how long it actually takes them. Most dealers that I have seen have young guys in there working ... like less than 21.

how did you charge customers When you were working for a shop? How do you charge now?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Wasn’t Trying to trash your profession at all... just to make the comparison that dealers charge the same per hour to work on cars as physicians do on humans.

Just doesn’t make sense.

Also, when you combine over charging by jobs that’s are “fixed hours” it’s gets even worse. There was a boat mechanic that used to live in my town who would charge people a killing on cleaning the carbs... he would charge a set Hourly amount for each carb, and other work, even though it took him far less to do it when he had things apart. I remember he cleaned the carbs on one guys motor, impeller and oil change... had it done in about 2.5 hours.,, charged the guy for around 8 hours. The guys was in there bitching how are you going to charge me 8 hours when I dropped it off less than 4 hours ago?

Some get screwed when you have a novice dragging on the hourly rate and you get screwed when you are an expert charging you for more hours than it really took them. The local auto shop here in my town has experienced guys who charge how long it actually takes them. Most dealers that I have seen have young guys in there working ... like less than 21.

how did you charge customers When you were working for a shop? How do you charge now?

Didn't really think you were trashing anything...... not really.
But there ARE those shop mechanics who rape and pillage, so to speak.

Flat rate can be tricky. Let's say there's a JT comes in with a pretty decent lift (meaning not any little 2") and it's got the braces, all sorts of stuff that gets in the way. The shop is allowed a flat 1.9 hours, PERIOD. If it takes them 2.5 because of all the extra stuff - tough, they eat that. But if the next one takes 1.75 hours - well, it all averages out.
Then you get non-warranty work where it's expected to pay lowest price, even if the vehicle is causing pains and taking longer than flat rate........ but that's all they charge for - and the only way to make up for that is flat rate on a job that may take 30 minutes less.

Last shop where I worked for someone else - We used to quote flat rate - but charge for the time actually spent where possible. If that time was going to be MORE than the flat rate estimate, we CALLED the customer. Rust, broken things, stuff that just is totally unexpected or hard to plan for.

If it took less, we charged less.
But then this wasn't warranty work I'm talking about.
Warranty work we reimbursed at a very spectific flat rate - sometimes you lost your shirt that day, sometimes you did well and made up for the last guy's pain in the butt.

We had an engine job years ago where the engine core was toast - not worth doing all the work. It was a SBC (Small Block Chevy) 350. The best bet was a short block. So we ordered a Chevy 350 short block. I was on vacation and one of the other mechanics did the work. When I came back a week later - that car was STILL there, with a weird vibration. It was like the engine was out of balance. The flex plate had the necessary weight, the dampener hadn't shifted or gone bad, what the heck was up?
So - I asked - how is this one balanced - internally or externally - and that got them thinking. They checked into the numbers on the block and crap, the short block that was sent to them was a SBC 400!! Not a 350. One being interally balanced, the other externally. So they had to pull things apart again, swap out flex plate and dampener and such, put it back together, vibration gone.
That cost them a LOT of hours - but can you charge the customer?
You just ate probably a grand worth of time and effort while putting all of the other jobs scheduled for that time slot off by a week. (this is why I laugh when people expect to take a car in at 9:00 am and the shop is to start work immediately and finish in 2 hours as that was their appointment - screw that, I've been there)

I could try to remember things from the past where I go so good at doing it that I could come in below flat rate - I had tricks and learned ways - but then the next job took a bit more because of unforeseen circumstances - not your fault.

I charge time and material for things that aren't restorations of given items - I estimate best I can and try to pad the estimate a bit - and call if it would take more, and charge less if it takes less.
Door hinges on some cars - you have to take the cluster out, the dash apart, to get to the bolts that hold the hinges to the body structure - what if you run into wiring issues, parts that won't come apart as they should, or plastic that's aged and breaks, mods an owner has made. Should take xx hours - could take an hour more. It's tough.
First shop I worked in while I was in high school was a tune-up on a Cobra 'stang 429 I believe. Can't recall exact details. So what should a Ford tune-up take? Changing spark plugs? Pretty quick, right? How about half a day to change spark plugs - the beast had headers and we had to figure out - you have to lift the engine up a few inches. So you tell the guy xx dollars and it ends up double that.

For me, on restorations of small things - it's a flat charge.
70 for a blower motor (and I lose money on that) 25 to clean and plate the squirrel cage fan (that's a loser, too, but it's my thing - customer service and keeping these cars original). Some take hours just to prep, so I lose on those, but it's covered in the grand scheme of things because it's a flat $50 to plate a wiper motor mounting plate, 180 to restore the wiper motor to like new. 170 for alternator restoration - plating all parts originally plated, to the original factory type finish and appearance.
People expect a given price for these restorations. Some never even ask - they send me the stuff and say let them know what they owe when I'm done, some ask but it's just so they can prepare. or even pre-pay! One guy sent me two starters and an alternator and sent the payment for each with them.
(there's only one other guy that can do the wiper motors and I've seen his work, and two shops now send the wiper motors to me instead of the other guy, and no one else does the alternator restorations or starters like I do)
They expect a flat known price. They want a number - and it better not be too low.

It's a bit different for me as I do award winning work with things others can't or won't.
(I used to have a decent reputation and was eating lunch one time at work and got a call from the manager of Bud MulCahey's Jeep in Des Moines. It was a call to offer me the job of service manager. I did't even have to interview, just say yes. I turned it down as I loved my boss at the time. He was a really cool older fellow who treated us VERY well.)

Me - if the person doing the work is top notch, I'll pay for that expertise. That's what a guy in IL told me - he said he knew my work and would pay whatever it took to get me to do his restorations. He even posted a youtube video of a Rebel Machine I did and pointed out well the starter worked on the 11:1 compression that engine had. I feel the same - if I know the person doing the work is tops, I'll pay extra. My problem is that my expectation of excellence most can't meet. If I were unablre to work on my own cars, there are only 4 or 5 people I know of in the country I'd trust to do the work to my expectations.
SO - maybe I'm not the best person to ask these questions!

It's a mixed bag. If the shop is doing top work - I'll pay for that top work. If their work is mediocre, I don't even want to take a vehicle there.

My boss years ago had three customers that he'd only let me do the work on their cars. Actually, it was at the customers' request. One was an IHP trooper - he literally kept white gloves in his glove box and checked door handles, steering wheel, glass and other areas and those gloves had better stay white.

So my take on things is likely different than anyone else.

 

[Scottdip]

Could someone tell me if this gear installed by my dealer for the tsb is the proper one?

 

[JeepTrucker]

Could someone tell me if this gear installed by my dealer for the tsb is the proper one?

It is the stock gear, not the new TSB gear. The new gear should be:

 

[ShadowsPapa]

What JeepTrucker said.

 

[Scottdip]

This really pisses me off. Guess I’ll be headed to the dealer Monday morning....ugh

 

[4xjeepr]

Took my JT to M&L Motors in Lexington NC yesterday for the steering issue. Brought the TSB number with me as well (they can look it up, I shouldn't do all their work). Also had heating/ cold air issue checked out. One hour later, tech found no code issues, all were without error. Heating issue was corrected, due to incorrect setting causing one vent to blow cold air after a shirt period. Even though tech found no error codes for steering and no recalls or campaigns had been issued, my new parts were ordered for the TSB. I'll be called as soon as they are in to complete the repair. Dealer gave me no issues about correcting the problem or questioning the TSB. I will update once I get the repair completed.

 

[MrZappo]

My take is simple. And people like @ShadowsPapa are not who I am talking about. If I could get someone like that to work on my jeep I'd be a happy man.

The typical people (at least in my personal experience) at dealer service departments don't care much and are sloppy.

In my case, I simply needed the tsb done. One trip for diagnosis and one trip for the work.

As it stands now, It is going to take me a minimum of 4 trips to get this done.

Trip 1: diagnosis
Trip 2: all day to install new gear and screws
Trip 3: return trip to recenter steering wheel that wasn't checked on the 2nd trip.
Trip 4 (future): return trip to get the proper steering gear installed as they installed the wrong one the first time.

The first guy ordered the wrong thing, the second guy didn't check and installed it anyways, the same guy didn't check the steering wheel after he aligned the truck. The third guy aligned the steering wheel (mostly).

No one actually did their job with any degree of professionalism or accuracy. All of it to my detriment.

This dealer literally did every step wrong. Every step. And the sad thing is that if I had a lift, I (as an unskilled member of the public) could have done all of this myself the first time.

These people can't be this dumb. My conclusion is that they just don't care enough to pay attention.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

My take is simple. And people like @ShadowsPapa are not who I am talking about. If I could get someone like that to work on my jeep I'd be a happy man.

The typical people (at least in my personal experience) at dealer service departments don't care much and are sloppy.

In my case, I simply needed the tsb done. One trip for diagnosis and one trip for the work.

As it stands now, It is going to take me a minimum of 4 trips to get this done.

Trip 1: diagnosis
Trip 2: all day to install new gear and screws
Trip 3: return trip to recenter steering wheel that wasn't checked on the 2nd trip.
Trip 4 (future): return trip to get the proper steering gear installed as they installed the wrong one the first time.

The first guy ordered the wrong thing, the second guy didn't check and installed it anyways, the same guy didn't check the steering wheel after he aligned the truck. The third guy aligned the steering wheel (mostly).

No one actually did their job with any degree of professionalism or accuracy. All of it to my detriment.

This dealer literally did every step wrong. Every step. And the sad thing is that if I had a lift, I (as an unskilled member of the public) could have done all of this myself the first time.

These people can't be this dumb. My conclusion is that they just don't care enough to pay attention.

I hear ya! And I agree! Mine wasn't as bad as you have to deal with - oily frame and suspension parts, not up to minimum on fluid, wheel slightly off center.

I literally walked out of one job because of the crap I saw - DANGEROUS stuff, too - crappy brake work. I backed up my truck to the door, loaded my tools and drove away and never went back, never said a word.

 

[HWKIGRL]

This really pisses me off. Guess I’ll be headed to the dealer Monday morning....ugh

If you go to the first page of this post the TSB with part numbers is listed. The gentlemen that answered are going off look and number, you may want to print the page and your photo for reference when you speak with the dealership.
Good luck.

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