So disappointed in this Diesel platform; wish there was a return policy.

[brianinca]

The oil is going somewhere for the first few thousand miles. Say what you will, tolerances are engineered in, and the wearing in period may not require different behavior in some cases, but it is there regardless.

My wife was just teasing last night about manually calculating mileage every fill up on my gas JTR. At 13K I started seeing a 1 MPG improvement (~6%). It certainly wasn't from a change in driving style. Full synthetic is very effective lubrication, so break in is slower.

Back in the day, I put full synthetic in my Ford Ranger with a 60's tech German V6 from Ford Germany (pushrod). I pulled the trigger too soon (500 miles) and when it finally hit 21K the mileage jumped a solid 1.5 MPG (+14%) (. I waited until 1K to do the same with a 98 Ford with the OHC version of that motor, it broke in at 8K and gave me ~2 MPG more (nearly 20%). I gave that truck to my gardener's son this summer, 198K and still getting the same mileage, 14 MPG in town.

For sure the difference in tolerances in modern engines plays a role in reducing the impact of break-in, and I've had vehicles that didn't show a mileage improvement (2006 H2 for example) but it remains a thing. Ford switched to full synthetic gear oil for rear axles in that 98 Ford from 97, that was all for a .15 MPG improvement. Synthetic lubricants reduce friction & wear in ADDITION to more precise tolerances and better materials.

I not saying you shouldn’t take it easy during the first miles, I am saying there will be no noticeable difference in power or mileage after the initial period. Engines today are made with very precise tolerances and from materials that do not wear in significantly.

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[MOPAR Boy]

Hi, guys!

FWIW, I came very close recently to ordering a 2021 diesel Gladiator Rubicon. A very beautiful light/medium truck, no doubt about it, and how cool is that to be able to take off the doors and roof, and drive off-road, with the added ability to tow light loads, as necessary?

But, just like another poster here stated, I tend to overkill things, juxtaposed to pressing my luck. My towing needs are similar to the OP’s, pretty light weight and small stuff, but I never, ever, ever want to worry about over heating, and stressing both my vehicle and myself out, even when going up very steep and long hills at 70mph.

I have therefore recently made the decision to place an order for a 2022 F450, equipped with the 6.7L Power Stroke diesel. Yes, it’s going to cost me $20k over what the fully loaded Gladiator would have cost me, and it’s certainly no way going to be an off-roader (albeit I will spec it out with the Off/Road 4X4 package). But, I will have tons and tons of nice excess reserve power. So, no worries, and I will be a super happy camper, smiling all the way, as I tug my trailer up any hill, with my A/C blasting cool air, even if the ambient temp is north of a 100 degrees!

Of course, to each his own, and YMMV!

 

[jsalbre]

Hi, guys!

FWIW, I came very close recently to ordering a 2021 diesel Gladiator Rubicon. A very beautiful light/medium truck, no doubt about it, and how cool is that to be able to take off the doors and roof, and drive off-road, with the added ability to tow light loads, as necessary?

But, just like another poster here stated, I tend to overkill things, juxtaposed to pressing my luck. My towing needs are similar to the OP’s, pretty light weight and small stuff, but I never, ever, ever want to worry about over heating, and stressing both my vehicle and myself out, even when going up very steep and long hills at 70mph.

I have therefore recently made the decision to place an order for a 2022 F450, equipped with the 6.7L Power Stroke diesel. Yes, it’s going to cost me $20k over what the fully loaded Gladiator would have cost me, and it’s certainly no way going to be an off-roader (albeit I will spec it out with the Off/Road 4X4 package). But, I will have tons and tons of nice excess reserve power. So, no worries, and I will be a super happy camper, smiling all the way, as I tug my trailer up any hill, with my A/C blasting cool air, even if the ambient temp is north of a 100 degrees!

Of course, to each his own, and YMMV!

You said your towing needs are lightweight, what are you towing that made you choose an F450 diesel?

 

[tjZ06]

After reading this thread, some thoughts:

• As others have pointed out, and as the OP seemed to confirm, just flat-footing it isn't the way to go - managing power and heat will create better results
• While the owner's manual says no break in procedure is necessary, that doesn't actually mean things aren't breaking in
• The 500 mile restriction before towing is more about breaking in the axles and the rest of the drivetrain than it is for the engine
• Even though managing power creates better results, honestly it's still disappointing that towing at around half of the rated limit requires managing heat and maintaining reasonable speed isn't necessarily possible

I really was thinking about a diesel JTR (long-winded version here: https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/n00b-considering-a-diesel-gladiator-rubicon.46264/) but it seems like it'll be the same song and dance I'm going through with my WJ (closely monitoring heat, going slower than I'd like, looking into hood vents and other additional cooling, etc). I guess I'll wait to see if they do a V8 in the Gladiator, but I don't need/want the 392 and all the expensive options it requires (at least on the Wrangler you have to get the painted top and stuff like that). IF they do a 5.7L Hemi Gladiator perhaps that'll be the solution.

-TJ

 

[tjZ06]

Hi, guys!

FWIW, I came very close recently to ordering a 2021 diesel Gladiator Rubicon. A very beautiful light/medium truck, no doubt about it, and how cool is that to be able to take off the doors and roof, and drive off-road, with the added ability to tow light loads, as necessary?

But, just like another poster here stated, I tend to overkill things, juxtaposed to pressing my luck. My towing needs are similar to the OP’s, pretty light weight and small stuff, but I never, ever, ever want to worry about over heating, and stressing both my vehicle and myself out, even when going up very steep and long hills at 70mph.

I have therefore recently made the decision to place an order for a 2022 F450, equipped with the 6.7L Power Stroke diesel. Yes, it’s going to cost me $20k over what the fully loaded Gladiator would have cost me, and it’s certainly no way going to be an off-roader (albeit I will spec it out with the Off/Road 4X4 package). But, I will have tons and tons of nice excess reserve power. So, no worries, and I will be a super happy camper, smiling all the way, as I tug my trailer up any hill, with my A/C blasting cool air, even if the ambient temp is north of a 100 degrees!

Of course, to each his own, and YMMV!

You'll like the F450 for towing, for sure. My brother-in-law just got a 2021 F450 and tows a ~40 foot toy hauler with it. The 6.7L and the 10-speed are a great combo. But, it's definitely a big vehicle and wouldn't be ideal for the use-case I have (I actually have a 3/4 ton Duramax for heavier towing already).

-TJ

 

[MPMB]

You said your towing needs are lightweight, what are you towing that made you choose an F450 diesel?

Daddy's X24.

 

[aj8544]

The de-rating of the towing numbers for the diesel compared to the 3.6 considering their torque output should be a blatant indicator that heat is an issue. Jeep has also stated so ever since they announced the diesel coming to the JT. I’ve seen too many posts here and on FB regarding how the diesel will tow far superior to the gasser, regardless of it’s towing rating being lower. Many such comments draw comparisons to the diesel in a Ram being rated higher. The fact is if Jeep could make the diesel tow more in the JT they damn sure would… It is rated lower for a reason- there is simply no room for adequate cooling of an engine that by nature runs hot.

I’m pulling a 6100lb 26ft travel trailer with my gas Rubicon (fully loaded weight per CAT scale). Ive pulled long severe grades in 95+ degree weather. Not one time have I had any sort of temperature issue or had the truck pull power due to overheating.

Would I love more power, lower rpms and the torque of a diesel? Of course. But not at the cost of overheating.

If towing is a priority the gasser is the only way to go, especially when payload capacity is considered.

 

[MOPAR Boy]

My guess is based on the fact that the long pole in the tent on the towing capabilities of the diesel Gladiator is its inherent cooling limitations, hopefully we may see some kind of cooling improvements in future iterations.

 

[jsalbre]

My guess is based on the fact that the long pole in the tent on the towing capabilities of the diesel Gladiator is its inherent cooling limitations, hopefully we may see some kind of cooling improvements in future iterations.

I wouldn’t expect to see an improvement. They really wrung as much as they could out of it:

https://jalopnik.com/the-engineering-behind-the-jeep-gladiators-tow-rating-1833657453

 

[rharr]

The fact is if Jeep could make the diesel tow more in the JT they damn sure would… It is rated lower for a reason- there is simply no room for adequate cooling of an engine that by nature runs hot.

The fact is if Jeep could make the diesel tow more in the JT they damn sure would… It is rated lower for a reason- there is simply no place ***to compromise for adequate cooling at the cost of the jeep image aka aesthetic, aerodynamics, MPG fleet standards, standardized parts, for a engine design*** that by nature runs hot.

Agree fully, the JT is a wrangler with a stretched frame, classic jeep recipe first, truck second.

New buyers are fooling themselves if they think otherwise.

Like I said you buy a jeep to play in the dirt, you buy a truck to pull things, you buy a JT to play in the dirt and carry a little extra crap a JK can't.

If Jeep really wanted to make a truck they wouldn't have used the wrangler as basis of design, to many limiting factors.

I don't care how much you spend on a JT, price doesn't qualify it to be a truck. The inflated cost is paying for 4x4 system, big axles, stronger parts for off-road use, removable door ability, removable roof ability, big hard bumpers, folding windshield, brand name.

When you start throwing "I paid blah blah blah and it's not towing my trailer", think of it this way. Spending the same money on a Lotus sports car, would you expect that to tow a 5k trailer up a hill? That money is going to other things it was design primarily for.

 

[Mac]

The fact is if Jeep could make the diesel tow more in the JT they damn sure would… It is rated lower for a reason- there is simply no place ***to compromise for adequate cooling at the cost of the jeep image aka aesthetic, aerodynamics, MPG fleet standards, standardized parts, for a engine design*** that by nature runs hot.

Agree fully, the JT is a wrangler with a stretched frame, classic jeep recipe first, truck second.

New buyers are fooling themselves if they think otherwise.

Like I said you buy a jeep to play in the dirt, you buy a truck to pull things, you buy a JT to play in the dirt and carry a little extra crap a JK can't.

If Jeep really wanted to make a truck they wouldn't have used the wrangler as basis of design, to many limiting factors.

I don't care how much you spend on a JT, price doesn't qualify it to be a truck. The inflated cost is paying for 4x4 system, big axles, stronger parts for off-road use, removable door ability, removable roof ability, big hard bumpers, folding windshield, brand name.

When you start throwing "I paid blah blah blah and it's not towing my trailer", think of it this way. Spending the same money on a Lotus sports car, would you expect that to tow a 5k trailer up a hill? That money is going to other things it was design primarily for.

The JT is a lot more than a JL with a stretched frame, there have been a number of articles explaining all the differences and why it so much more than that and why has much higher capabilities than a JL. A JT is just as much a truck as any other midsized truck, Tacoma, Ranger, or GM twins, not everyone needs a full-size truck, I had a Tundra crewman with the 5.5' bed and for my type of use the JT is just as capable, I haul stuff in the bed almost every weekend and frequently tow boats ranging from 1200lbs to 3500lbs.

 

[Glad_he_ate]

Idk mine tows nice… hills np flats np heat np. Perhaps it just don’t get hot enough in ny.

 

[yolo]

The fact is if Jeep could make the diesel tow more in the JT they damn sure would… It is rated lower for a reason- there is simply no room for adequate cooling of an engine that by nature runs hot.

Read https://jalopnik.com/the-engineering-behind-the-jeep-gladiators-tow-rating-1833657453 and you will see Jeep imposed limitations to what the cooling engineers could do. There are plenty of ways Jeep could have cooled things down, starting with redesigning/upgrading radiators, transmission and inter-coolers. But, with the self-imposed restrictions placed on the engineers, along with reusing cooling components from the JL, there was not much they could do.

I think it's funny they talk so much about all the effort that went into maximizing cooling utilizing such a small part of the grill, and yet, they placed the horns and front trail cam so it blocks the majority of airflow to the transmission cooler (if you look inside the grill, at the very top, you will see the bottom few inches of the transmission cooler). It's like the engineers worked in silos.

I'm not as mad as I was a few days ago, so I plan on doing everything I can to improve the cooling as I really, really want to keep this truck. Maybe jeep will come out with improvements for later model gladiators we can have installed.

 

[yolo]

Idk mine tows nice… hills np flats np heat np. Perhaps it just don’t get hot enough in ny.

I've only had it happen to me on really hot days (95+ degrees), when towing ~4500 lbs, and going up and down hills and/or stop and go traffic.

But when it does derate, and you are going up a big hill on I-10 (80 MPH speed limit), and the best you can do is 45mph with your hazard lights on hoping nobody plows into your rear, it kinda sucks.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I not saying you shouldn’t take it easy during the first miles, I am saying there will be no noticeable difference in power or mileage after the initial period. Engines today are made with very precise tolerances and from materials that do not wear in significantly.

As a person who has built engines for a few years - even years ago there wasn't an appreciable break-in period. In fact I have a manual from Ford that says no special break-in is required. That manual is from the late 1950s.
Dana/Perfect Circle has a break-in procedure in a book I have from the 70s that says if you follow the procedures they outline in the book, the engine is effectively broken in.
The proof is in the fact that when you open up an engine with 100,000 miles on it you still see the machining marks on the rings and you still see the nice cross-hatch pattern on the cylinder walls.

Synthetic vs. non-synthetic is no different in wear or break-in. Wearing in will be the same.
As long as it's a quality oil rated highly in wear prevention, it doesn't matter the base. Some "dino oils" do a better job of protecting than some synthetics - so..........

Increases of mpg on engines in the last 20 years is more about the engine controls than breaking in. Things do loosen up a bit but it's broken in way before 2,000 miles. Things do keep loosening up but that's wear, not breaking in.

for those that don't believe me - I guess I get out my books and pics again and explain it all in detail.
This is 2021, not 1950.

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