Eco diesel or 3.6 gas??

[Gruffid]

I have been considering trading in my fully loaded JTRD for a ‘22 or ‘23 with the 3.6L (otherwise same options). This is a little bit rambly- I’m typing this on my phone and it’s not easy to put everything in ideal order - my apologies.

Why would I consider going to a “lesser engine?” Everything is easier in the 3.6L. My wife has a 2021 JLUR with the 3.6L. That said, I get about 8-10 mpgs more and I have the 2” MOPAR lift and a warn Winch on my JTRD. Overall, the actual range between the two engine’s range is negligible since the diesel has a smaller tank, making the better fuel economy an non-issue regarding range per tank.

But I also have front end suspension bottoming out (yes even with the lift - just not as often). I also have engine power de-rating on hot days towing my 5,000lb trailer in 80* weather between San Antonio and South Padre Island (Texas). That terrain isn’t exactly difficult, or high altitude, or hilly. Imagine pulling onto an interstate while towing, and your truck suddenly - and without any warning or indication of why it’s doing this - cuts your power and now you’re on the interstate doing 45 mph - with a trailer. Now imagine a semi truck doing 80 mph running up your back bumper. It’s not a pleasant feeling, nor confidence inspiring.

Diesel fuel isn’t offered at every fuel station, and here in central Texas diesel is a minimum of $1.00 more than regular unleaded. DEF also isn’t available at every fuel station. Thanks to the recent recall/software update, I don’t use as much as before.

I also off-road in my JTRD. The torque is incredible, and I can idle up obstacles that the 3.6L crowd needs a little throttle to get through. But then I also have 400 lbs more than they do on the front axle. Which is why they can tow more and don’t have front end bottoming out issues.

But I think my JTRD still tows my trailer better than a 3.6L would - it has so much torque, I’ve spun the rear tires while towing. The overall suspension is better in the JTRD while towing - it handles bumps and road irregularities better than unloaded. Still, the 3.6L could legally (and more safely due to engine de-rating) tow more - up to 1,000 lbs more for the Rubicon trim; 1,750 lbs (I think) more for the Sport S, Max Tow version.

Anxiety about the diesel is real. It’s not range anxiety. It’s about de-rating, the DEF countdown to shutdown (imagine being on a multi-day off-road adventure and your dash suddenly tellls you the engine will not be able to start again in 400 miles unless you fill the DEF tank - it burns through DEF off-road very fast), and then there’s the bottoming out (my wife says I don’t have a real Jeep because it can’t handle the bumps like her JLUR can).

None of which is a problem with the 3.6L. And to be honest, we don’t have range anxiety with the 3.6L either. And if we did, the long range America extended/auxiliary fuel tank costs way less than the diesel upcharge. And then we could put a snorkel on, and put the ARB twin air pump behind the passenger side front wheel well, and get a dual battery system, etc. All of these you can’t have with a diesel. (Yes, there’s a snorkel for the diesel, but it’s hideous).

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[Zybane]

Some bad info put out on this thread about the diesel 5 yr/100K mile powertrain warranty. It doesn't just cover "internal parts".

E. PARTS COVERED The Powertrain Limited Warranty covers these parts and components of your vehicle's powertrain supplied by FCA US LLC:

Diesel Engine Cylinder block and all internal parts; cylinder head assemblies; core plugs; fuel injection pump and injectors; intake and exhaust manifolds; oil pan; oil pump; timing gear drive belts and/or chains and cover; turbocharger housing and internal parts; valve covers; water pump and housing; and seals and gaskets for listed components; glow plugs and all sensors.

Transmission Transmission case and all internal parts; torque converter; drive/flex plate; transmission range switch; speed sensors; pressure sensors; transmission control module; bell housing; oil pan; and seals and gaskets for listed components only.

Four-Wheel Drive (4WD) Transfer case and all internal parts; transfer case control module and shift mode motor assembly; axle housing and all internal parts; axle shafts; axle shaft bearings; drive shafts assemblies (front and rear); drive shaft center bearings; universal joints and yokes; disconnect housing assembly; and seals and gaskets for the listed components only.

One negative thing about the diesel is the following emissions parts are 3yr/36K mile:

t. FCA US LLC covers
all of these parts under the Basic Limited Warranty for three years or
36,000 miles, whichever occurs first.
Diesel
• Charge Air Cooler (CAC)
• Crankcase Ventilation System
• Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Valve and Control System
• Fuel Cap, Tank Assembly, Fuel Pump, and Fuel Lines
• Mass Air Flow Sensor
• On-Board Diagnostic-System Components
• Oxygen Sensors
• Throttle Body
• Urea (DEF) Tank and Control System
• Vacuum Hoses, Clamps, and Fittings (as well as Tubing used for these
components)
• Vacuum, Temperature, Altitude, Speed, and Time Sensitive Valves,
Sensors, and Switches (used in these components)

And these are EIGHT YEARS OR 80,000 MILES:

B. PARTS COVERED FOR EIGHT YEARS OR 80,000 MILES If your vehicle has one of the following parts, this Federal Emission Warranty covers that part for a period of eight years or 80,000 miles, whichever occurs first, calculated from the start of the Basic Limited Warranty as set forth in “section 2.1 E”. The covered parts are:
• Nitrous Oxide Sensors • Oxidation Catalyst/Particulate Filter Assembly • Particulate Matter Sensor • Powertrain Control Module (PCM) • Selective Catalytic Reduction Catalyst Assembly • Transmission Control Module (TCM)


https://msmownerassets.z13.web.core...adiator/P133405_22_J_D_GW_EN_US_t_DIGITAL.pdf

 

[@californiajeeping]

I have been considering trading in my fully loaded JTRD for a ‘22 or ‘23 with the 3.6L (otherwise same options). This is a little bit rambly- I’m typing this on my phone and it’s not easy to put everything in ideal order - my apologies.

Why would I consider going to a “lesser engine?” Everything is easier in the 3.6L. My wife has a 2021 JLUR with the 3.6L. That said, I get about 8-10 mpgs more and I have the 2” MOPAR lift and a warn Winch on my JTRD. Overall, the actual range between the two engine’s range is negligible since the diesel has a smaller tank, making the better fuel economy an non-issue regarding range per tank.

But I also have front end suspension bottoming out (yes even with the lift - just not as often). I also have engine power de-rating on hot days towing my 5,000lb trailer in 80* weather between San Antonio and South Padre Island (Texas). That terrain isn’t exactly difficult, or high altitude, or hilly. Imagine pulling onto an interstate while towing, and your truck suddenly - and without any warning or indication of why it’s doing this - cuts your power and now you’re on the interstate doing 45 mph - with a trailer. Now imagine a semi truck doing 80 mph running up your back bumper. It’s not a pleasant feeling, nor confidence inspiring.

Diesel fuel isn’t offered at every fuel station, and here in central Texas diesel is a minimum of $1.00 more than regular unleaded. DEF also isn’t available at every fuel station. Thanks to the recent recall/software update, I don’t use as much as before.

I also off-road in my JTRD. The torque is incredible, and I can idle up obstacles that the 3.6L crowd needs a little throttle to get through. But then I also have 400 lbs more than they do on the front axle. Which is why they can tow more and don’t have front end bottoming out issues.

But I think my JTRD still tows my trailer better than a 3.6L would - it has so much torque, I’ve spun the rear tires while towing. The overall suspension is better in the JTRD while towing - it handles bumps and road irregularities better than unloaded. Still, the 3.6L could legally (and more safely due to engine de-rating) tow more - up to 1,000 lbs more for the Rubicon trim; 1,750 lbs (I think) more for the Sport S, Max Tow version.

Anxiety about the diesel is real. It’s not range anxiety. It’s about de-rating, the DEF countdown to shutdown (imagine being on a multi-day off-road adventure and your dash suddenly tellls you the engine will not be able to start again in 400 miles unless you fill the DEF tank - it burns through DEF off-road very fast), and then there’s the bottoming out (my wife says I don’t have a real Jeep because it can’t handle the bumps like her JLUR can).

None of which is a problem with the 3.6L. And to be honest, we don’t have range anxiety with the 3.6L either. And if we did, the long range America extended/auxiliary fuel tank costs way less than the diesel upcharge. And then we could put a snorkel on, and put the ARB twin air pump behind the passenger side front wheel well, and get a dual battery system, etc. All of these you can’t have with a diesel. (Yes, there’s a snorkel for the diesel, but it’s hideous).

I get it completely but at the same time I feel like the Diesel has opportunity for improvement and the gasser does not. Hell they break just driving around with the cam and lifter issues people are exp. I have yet to get into a Derate but I have seen 260 degrees on back to back test runs on a 100 degree day up a hill. I will say the diesel will easily pull the speed limiter up the mountains and the 3.6L would barely pull 75-80mph.

If your ecodiesel is derating constantly I would consider adding an aftermarket oil cooler or having one made. If I was towing alot this would be what I would look toward doing. Once that is done you shouldnt exp any derates. Also we are on the cusp of aftermarket companies producing thicker/more efficient radiators and charge coolers. Only a matter of time .

 

[2TH MVR]

I'll add that if you had a diesel truck before (I did: F350 Turbodiesel) then we are more used to the nuances of owning a diesel. We're more tolerant lol.

Gas owners who have never owned a diesel are probably not used to the low torque, heavier front end weight, DEF, maintenance, etc. etc.

I knew going in that the JTRD had a new 3rd gen ecodiesel. I don't have bottoming out issues because at day 1 .... I had the Mopar 2 in installed. I also purchased an extended warranty due to this new platform and engine. I plan on keeping this JTRD for a long time.

The posted derates are concerning. I haven't had one yet, but I have watched the oil temp rise going up hills in the Arizona heat with a full load of adults (4) and gear. I'm starting to think that the oil temp above 250 might be normal operating temp???? I don't know.

The DPF system is also concerning. I make sure to drive my Jeep for extended miles and speed (commuting).

The diesel is a great Jeep. It just needs real world after market improvements such as an external oil cooler.

I also did not buy the JTRD to tow with. I mean. Come on. I towed a heavy boat with my F350 one ton.

I wanted a Jeep to offroad in and have the ability to haul stuff in the bed. So far .... It's been good.

 

[Koolcarguy]

I test drove the Eco diesel for the first time last week. I was impressed with it but is it worth the added price and the extra costs associated with the higher cost of diesel, def fluid, and most importantly, reliability. Reliability is the big one with me. For the folks with the newest version, how has it been holding up??

Ok so here my 2 cents....we own 3 21 jt diesels between me and my son and my wife has a 22 Jk Rubi diesel. I personally own 7 Jeeps from a Cj to Jlu with that said we have a combined 98k miles on the 4 diesels NOT 1 ISSUE !! My wife gets 30 mpg in her stock Jlu Rubi but she drives well like a grandma lol i get 23 ish in my Jt Rubi on 37 and 25 ish in my Jt Sport s. I'm a believer!! After buying 20+ new Wranglers i will never buy another without the diesel!! Power,reliability and fuel mileage makes owning a diesel well worth the price

 

[Koolcarguy]

Thanks, definitely something to consider. It wasn't going to be my everyday vehicle and would be sitting even at my house from time to time. It wouldnt be a problem at home but to arrive somewhere and expect it to be ready and find it had a dead battery would be an issue.

So my 21 Jt Rubi has 1100 miles on it i got it in October only been out of my shop 4 times never had a battery issue actually never had a battery issue on the other 3 my son got his same day matching Gecko Jt Rubi diesels he has 30k miles on his and hasn't even started his gas Jlu since getting the Gladiator!!

 

[TurboHarley]

I test drove the gasser at the local dealer and left a bit disappointed although I liked the truck. So I found a dealer about 250 miles away that had a diesel in stock and was able to cut the deal and they agreed to deliver it to my door at no additional cost. At this point I still did not drive the diesel but bought it anyway. As most have mentioned, I feel I got my monies worth and I'm extremely happy with the performance of the diesel. Average fuel mileage with 35's 20-21 around town and 23 -25 on the highway.

 

[alpineovernappa]

I had the 3.6 in my JKUR for 8 years/70k miles and thought it was a great power plant for that. I drove a 3.6 gladiator rubi and I couldn’t have been more underwhelmed. It was more gutless than a Tacoma (if that’s even possible). With the added weight of the gladiator, it was diesel or no gladiator for me. I’d be curious how many people have actually driven both and still chose the gasser. You really have to drive both to make an informed decision- specs and stats alone just don’t do justice to how different the two vehicles are

 

[NachoRuby]

You really have to drive both to make an informed decision- specs and stats alone just don’t do justice to how different the two vehicles are

My pocketbook informed me that I can't afford a diesel.

 

[alpineovernappa]

My pocketbook informed me that I can't afford a diesel.

Thats definitely a factor. Gone are the days of buying a diesel because it’s more cost effective. I drive ~25k a year and don’t expect my diesel to ever offset the added costs of $4k upcharge plus $80 fuel filters, $200 oil changes (DIY), regular def, etc. I bought mine purely because of the enjoyment of driving it and the range. I get 475 miles of usable range (DTE typically reads 515) on my stock sport s. Recently switched to a full rubicon suspension, rubicon takeoff tires, a rooftop tent and still get a usable range of 410 miles with a DTE of 450. Range was a huge factor for me

 

[Gruffid]

I'll add that if you had a diesel truck before (I did: F350 Turbodiesel) then we are more used to the nuances of owning a diesel. We're more tolerant lol.

Gas owners who have never owned a diesel are probably not used to the low torque, heavier front end weight, DEF, maintenance, etc. etc.

I knew going in that the JTRD had a new 3rd gen ecodiesel. I don't have bottoming out issues because at day 1 .... I had the Mopar 2 in installed. I also purchased an extended warranty due to this new platform and engine. I plan on keeping this JTRD for a long time.

The posted derates are concerning. I haven't had one yet, but I have watched the oil temp rise going up hills in the Arizona heat with a full load of adults (4) and gear. I'm starting to think that the oil temp above 250 might be normal operating temp???? I don't know.

The DPF system is also concerning. I make sure to drive my Jeep for extended miles and speed (commuting).

The diesel is a great Jeep. It just needs real world after market improvements such as an external oil cooler.

I also did not buy the JTRD to tow with. I mean. Come on. I towed a heavy boat with my F350 one ton.

I wanted a Jeep to offroad in and have the ability to haul stuff in the bed. So far .... It's been good.

I definitely agree. I have owned diesels since 2004 (2004.5 Chevy 2500 LLY Duramax, 2006 GMC 3500 LBZ Duramax, 2011 Ford F-350 6.7L Powestroke, 1997 GMC Suburban K2500 6.5L, 2019 Ford F-150 3.0L Powerstroke). Getting used to the nuances of diesel powered vehicles takes some getting used to in order to navigate through some of the inherent challenges of diesel vehicle ownership these days.

That said, this truck with this engine is not well matched. Fiat or Stellantis should have done their homework better with regard to the DEF usage and de-rating (individual problems not likely related) - both of which don’t seem to be an issue with the Ram ecodiesel, and then done better homework with the suspension.

As for towing, yes if you’re going to tow heavy, this truck is not for you - there’s no way, it’ll tow 10K+ lbs. you’ll definitely need a 3/4-ton or heavier duty truck. I can even understand that it would struggle at max towing capacity of 6,000 lbs, being a mid-size truck. But towing less than that, shouldn’t be met with de-rating and overheating.

Check out TrailRecon. He doesn’t have his JLURD anymore because it de-rated while going up a mountain pass. Check out Casey250 with his JLURD and his buddy with the Blue JTRD (Epic Adventure Outfitters’ Kahn truck) - they both de-rated at the same time on the same trip going up a long incline. Neither were towing.

 

[NC_Overland]

I had the 3.6 in my JKUR for 8 years/70k miles and thought it was a great power plant for that. I drove a 3.6 gladiator rubi and I couldn’t have been more underwhelmed. It was more gutless than a Tacoma (if that’s even possible).

What? That’s the exact opposite of what most people say. The 3.6l/5at was kind of a dog, but the 3.6l/8at brings it to life.

It’s not possible. I drove a Tacoma about two miles and turned around and went back to the dealership because it was completely unacceptable. My 3.6l/7at feels feels fine.

Something was wrong with the 3.6l gladiator you drove or it had bigger tires on stock gears or something.

 

[Jag]

My fuel pump went tits up on 4/11/2022, it is still in the shop waiting on that last part (fuel tank pump). I tried to trade for a gas Rub but he wanted too much boot. The upside is the dealer gave me a loaner, 2021 Ram 1500. I guess I could use WV's Lemon Law but think the dealer could use the supply train issue so I am waiting it out......

 

[alpineovernappa]

What? That’s the exact opposite of what most people say. The 3.6l/5at was kind of a dog, but the 3.6l/8at brings it to life.

It’s not possible. I drove a Tacoma about two miles and turned around and went back to the dealership because it was completely unacceptable. My 3.6l/7at feels feels fine.

Something was wrong with the 3.6l gladiator you drove or it had bigger tires on stock gears or something.

What? That’s the exact opposite of what most people say. The 3.6l/5at was kind of a dog, but the 3.6l/8at brings it to life.

It’s not possible. I drove a Tacoma about two miles and turned around and went back to the dealership because it was completely unacceptable. My 3.6l/7at feels feels fine.

Something was wrong with the 3.6l gladiator you drove or it had bigger tires on stock gears or something.

Neither of them were autos. Not a big fan of having to double or triple downshift to pull a grade on a stock truck. The 8speed does a great job of making the 3.6 livable but it still triple downshifts (rubi trim) to compensate for the lack of low end torque. The addition of the 8speed is probably the single best thing about the JL platform, but it still doesn’t make up for the lack of power in the 3.6 IMO. I like the 3.6 in the JK and JL, just not with the weight of the JT.

 

[NC_Overland]

Neither of them were autos. Not a big fan of having to double or triple downshift to pull a grade on a stock truck. The 8speed does a great job of making the 3.6 livable but it still triple downshifts (rubi trim) to compensate for the lack of low end torque. The addition of the 8speed is probably the single best thing about the JL platform, but it still doesn’t make up for the lack of power in the 3.6 IMO. I like the 3.6 in the JK and JL, just not with the weight of the JT.

That makes a lot more sense. My JK was a 6 speed. It was a 3.8l and a rubicon so it needed the 6 speed and 4.10s to get out of its own way when I moved to CO. I had to put a CAI and superchips tuner on it and run the 93 octane tune (ran fine on 91) for it to be livable there.

I get what you are saying though. My Canyon was also a 3.6l/8at and I miss the power. It was several hundred lbs lighter and 308hp. 0-60 in 6.1 sec bone stock. It was fun to pass people. It pulled hard to the 7200. RPM rev limiter.

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