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4XE hybrid for the Gladiator ? ? ?

jurfie

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I was off 300LBS. It still adds 700 lbs. no thanks. But its a start. I can't wait to see a useful evolution of the hybrids. Its just not there yet.
Yes, it adds weight. But your point was that it would "cut the over all load capacity of the JT by 1/3 to 1/2 the over carrying cap." It doesn't; it actually has a (slightly) higher payload capacity and the same towing capacity. Where's the downside?
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Yes, it adds weight. But your point was that it would "cut the over all load capacity of the JT by 1/3 to 1/2 the over carrying cap." It doesn't; it actually has a (slightly) higher payload capacity and the same towing capacity. Where's the downside?
More weight always sucks off road. Lucky it’ll be down low and maybe not a total dealbreaker.

I’m curious to see if the extra weight hurts the gas only performance on these vehicles. Otherwise I don’t see much of a downside on-road.
 

dcmdon

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I was off 300LBS. It still adds 700 lbs. no thanks. But its a start. I can't wait to see a useful evolution of the hybrids. Its just not there yet.
You were off by 1000%.

The carrying capacity and tow rating are completely unaffected by the bump in curb weight.

I'm not a green person at all. But if I can get 375 hp out of a 4 dr pickup truck and still see 25 mpg around town. I'm thrilled.
 

dcmdon

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Yes, it adds weight. But your point was that it would "cut the over all load capacity of the JT by 1/3 to 1/2 the over carrying cap." It doesn't; it actually has a (slightly) higher payload capacity and the same towing capacity. Where's the downside?
There is no downside, other than cost, really. Assuming the suspension is appropriately engineered to deal with the increased weight.
 

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Haven't really looked for an answer but curious if you get the $7500 tax credit with these hybrids?
 

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dcmdon

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Haven't really looked for an answer but curious if you get the $7500 tax credit with these hybrids?
If you do, it almost becomes a no-brainer for someone who doesn't keep their car that long.

I tend to keep cars for 12+ years. So the idea of a drivetrain engineered by fiat and/or Chrysler with very limited hybrid experience, that is so complex is a concern for me.

Its interesting in that a lot of the battery reliability comes from software. How for do you let it charge, how fast do you let it charge, how far do you let it discharge.

Its a balancing act because all of these factors affect performance stats that drive sales (charging time and EV range) but also impact battery longevity.
 

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The most appealing jeeps to me are the simplest of each model. I guess if you are forced to make it a daily driver it might be appealing. But off road, 700 additional pounds for something that needs to be plugged in, (I did read that correctly, no?) is never appealing. Did they say it was a plug in hybrid? this is not appealing to trail enthusiasts, in the least. However. it is a formidable start, but the allurer most definitely ends there, with me anyway. May there always be a current bush along the road to your electrifying travels.
 

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Do people even research before posting “facts” anymore?

From Jeep.com:

Wrangler 4xe Sahara:
3F37A867-7D18-4494-93ED-FE00412C85B0.jpeg


ICE Wrangler Sahara:
237F1A28-B0CF-4F61-9589-EA23DA5633B8.jpeg
Yes, it adds weight. But your point was that it would "cut the over all load capacity of the JT by 1/3 to 1/2 the over carrying cap." It doesn't; it actually has a (slightly) higher payload capacity and the same towing capacity. Where's the downside?
You were off by 1000%.

The carrying capacity and tow rating are completely unaffected by the bump in curb weight.

I'm not a green person at all. But if I can get 375 hp out of a 4 dr pickup truck and still see 25 mpg around town. I'm thrilled.

That's not how any of this works.

The JL and JT are apples and oranges. You rightly noticed that on JL, they had enough wiggle room that they were able to drastically increase GVWR to keep the payload and towing the same or better. That worked OK for Wrangler, which has a MISERABLE payload and towing rating to begin with.

However, on JT they're already at max GVWR. I've seen some JT models, particularly diesels, stamped with 6,350 lb. GVWR numbers. In order to accommodate the 4xe equipment, they'd have to tack on another 700 lbs. which would then put the GVWR at 7,000+ lbs. At that point, you're literally talking Ram full size truck numbers. Would Jeep stamp the same total capacity on their midsize that Ram uses for their fullsize? I seriously doubt it. There is, after all, a limit to what the midsize chassis and dimensions can handle.

So the fact is, there is almost zero chance that the 4xe Gladiator will be able to retain payload and towing numbers that are equal to the currrent ICE Gladiator numbers. I will be shocked if they do that.

What you're probably going to see is the lowest payload and towing numbers of any Gladiator trim in the entire lineup. And when you combine that with a <20 mile electric range and a $10k higher starting price, it just makes absolutely no sense. There will be even less financial reason to buy a 4xe Gladiator than there is to buy the EcoDiesel.
 

dcmdon

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The most appealing jeeps to me are the simplest of each model. I guess if you are forced to make it a daily driver it might be appealing. But off road, 700 additional pounds for something that needs to be plugged in, (I did read that correctly, no?) is never appealing. Did they say it was a plug in hybrid? this is not appealing to trail enthusiasts, in the least. However. it is a formidable start, but the allurer most definitely ends there, with me anyway. May there always be a current bush along the road to your electrifying travels.
A plug in hybrid doesn't need to be plugged in. Once the battery runs down it works like a regular hybrid. Using the electricity for short bursts to supplement the gas engine's power.

A hybrid is a great combination with a 2 liter 4 cylinder engine. These engines can make very good power but sizing the turbocharger is always a compromise. Larger turbo for better efficiency at high RPM and high power. Smaller turbocharger for better efficiency at lower speeds. (more torque at low RPM).

The electric drivetrain makes full torque at 0 rpm. so it is a great compliment in that it can fill in the low RPM holes as well as turbo lag. This allows engineers to use a larger turbo for more efficiency at higher power
 

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jurfie

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The JL and JT are apples and oranges. You rightly noticed that on JL, they had enough wiggle room that they were able to drastically increase GVWR to keep the payload and towing the same or better. That worked OK for Wrangler, which has a MISERABLE payload and towing rating to begin with.
You seriously think Jeep purposely kept their payload numbers low in the Wrangler? The one thing that people have been complaining about for years and the reason people buy Land Cruisers and Troopies outside of NA rather than Wranglers for overlanding? I doubt that very much.

So the fact is, there is almost zero chance that the 4xe Gladiator will be able to retain payload and towing numbers that are equal to the currrent ICE Gladiator numbers. I will be shocked if they do that.

What you're probably going to see is the lowest payload and towing numbers of any Gladiator trim in the entire lineup.
I guess we’ll see when it comes out. No point speculating and making a decision one way or the other until it is released.

And when you combine that with a <20 mile electric range and a $10k higher starting price, it just makes absolutely no sense. There will be even less financial reason to buy a 4xe Gladiator than there is to buy the EcoDiesel.
For you.
 

jurfie

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The most appealing jeeps to me are the simplest of each model. I guess if you are forced to make it a daily driver it might be appealing. But off road, 700 additional pounds for something that needs to be plugged in, (I did read that correctly, no?) is never appealing. Did they say it was a plug in hybrid? this is not appealing to trail enthusiasts, in the least. However. it is a formidable start, but the allurer most definitely ends there, with me anyway. May there always be a current bush along the road to your electrifying travels.
No, you didn’t read that correctly. It does not NEED to be plugged in.
 

RobertRinAustin

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What you're probably going to see is the lowest payload and towing numbers of any Gladiator trim in the entire lineup. And when you combine that with a <20 mile electric range and a $10k higher starting price, it just makes absolutely no sense. There will be even less financial reason to buy a 4xe Gladiator than there is to buy the EcoDiesel.
The $7500 tax credit goes a long way towards leveling the price difference.
 

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That's not how any of this works.

The JL and JT are apples and oranges. You rightly noticed that on JL, they had enough wiggle room that they were able to drastically increase GVWR to keep the payload and towing the same or better. That worked OK for Wrangler, which has a MISERABLE payload and towing rating to begin with.

However, on JT they're already at max GVWR. I've seen some JT models, particularly diesels, stamped with 6,350 lb. GVWR numbers. In order to accommodate the 4xe equipment, they'd have to tack on another 700 lbs. which would then put the GVWR at 7,000+ lbs. At that point, you're literally talking Ram full size truck numbers. Would Jeep stamp the same total capacity on their midsize that Ram uses for their fullsize? I seriously doubt it. There is, after all, a limit to what the midsize chassis and dimensions can handle.

So the fact is, there is almost zero chance that the 4xe Gladiator will be able to retain payload and towing numbers that are equal to the currrent ICE Gladiator numbers. I will be shocked if they do that.

What you're probably going to see is the lowest payload and towing numbers of any Gladiator trim in the entire lineup. And when you combine that with a <20 mile electric range and a $10k higher starting price, it just makes absolutely no sense. There will be even less financial reason to buy a 4xe Gladiator than there is to buy the EcoDiesel.
They only added 100Lbs to the GVWR of the Rubicon going from Diesel to 4xE. So your comparison of adding 700lbs to Gladiator GVWR is a bit off.

Edit: the Diesel Sahara has a GVWR of 5900Lbs, so it appears to be a 300lb difference between powertrains, that would still keep the Gladiator under 7000lbs rating.
 
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Sazabi19

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That's not how any of this works.

The JL and JT are apples and oranges. You rightly noticed that on JL, they had enough wiggle room that they were able to drastically increase GVWR to keep the payload and towing the same or better. That worked OK for Wrangler, which has a MISERABLE payload and towing rating to begin with.

However, on JT they're already at max GVWR. I've seen some JT models, particularly diesels, stamped with 6,350 lb. GVWR numbers. In order to accommodate the 4xe equipment, they'd have to tack on another 700 lbs. which would then put the GVWR at 7,000+ lbs. At that point, you're literally talking Ram full size truck numbers. Would Jeep stamp the same total capacity on their midsize that Ram uses for their fullsize? I seriously doubt it. There is, after all, a limit to what the midsize chassis and dimensions can handle.

So the fact is, there is almost zero chance that the 4xe Gladiator will be able to retain payload and towing numbers that are equal to the currrent ICE Gladiator numbers. I will be shocked if they do that.

What you're probably going to see is the lowest payload and towing numbers of any Gladiator trim in the entire lineup. And when you combine that with a <20 mile electric range and a $10k higher starting price, it just makes absolutely no sense. There will be even less financial reason to buy a 4xe Gladiator than there is to buy the EcoDiesel.
You're forgetting about the $7,500 tax credit (which is given in a weird way and may not be the full amount) as well as the fact that even though it starts $10k higher, it has several things included in it the ICE vehciles in those trims don't, like leather seating (which I don't want in my Jeep), 8.4" screen w/nav, and the upgraded audio. I think there are more things included but those are the big ones for me, so that's several thousand that gets knocked off immediately.

Leather seats: $1,700 - $1,750 (do these stack, like seat + leather color? If so combine those)
8.4 nav + audio: $2k

So for now we'll say the PHEV portion is a $6k option... and if you do it right the tax thing can get you ahead :D
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