Adding a winch to the plastic front bumper?

alM

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I have reached out to ROCKHARD4x4 for some information on their methods for making claims of winch weight ratings on this plate. Will forward any info I get from them.

Al

 

jeepguy225

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I came across this:

https://www.rockhard4x4.com/product_p/rh-90205.htm

and was wondering if it would work for the stock bumper on my gladiator?

I thought it might save me a lot of money not buying a new bumper so i could get a better winch. What do you think? I've never done this before so excuse my ignorance if this is a really bad idea.
Check this out, but instead of adding D-rings tabs, just keep the factory hooks on it.
 

MarineHawk

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Question is- will the air bag deploy with
The Rockhard set up???
The airbags deploy based on inertial issues (massive deceleration), not because some bumper, stock or not, has a button on it.
 

ShadowsPapa

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Lucifer

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Seriously, why would you add a heavy winch to a plastic bumper. I have the steel bumper that came with my LE and am still waiting on winch plates to be shipped. If you want a winch, find a shop that does this sort of thing. Also, you just bought an expensive toy but you're now trying to go the cheapest route? That would be like how Harley guys put chrome items on their bikes using double sided tape
 


ShadowsPapa

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Good grief, the haves against the have-nots again. Toy? Is that what this is to you? Mine is a truck - I'll use it. It's not just a toy. Now that I've bought it I'm out of extra cash for the most part and will have to do things little by little. Most folks aren't drowning in cash like some who mock others are.
The basis of the plastic bumper is steel. The guy is still attaching to the frame horns. It's still steel back there. It's solid - attached to the same place the TOW HOOKS are attached. If it's not pulling trees out of the ghost forests of Alaska, why does he need a 1,000 pound bumper and plate? Maybe this serves his needs - not yours?
Also, he's not DECREASING his payload with a heavy all-steel bumper and huge plate. Maybe he's done the math and values a bit of payload being left.
Takes nothing to spend a lot and bolt on parts - takes some thinking to do it cheaper. MAYBE he'll do this and then decide he's got more money later. Anyone can spend lots of money and bolt stuff on. Takes some brain power to do it cheaper but still fitting their needs.
I have my JT only because I sold a classic restored car and because someone without safety features on their car fell asleep and killed my father. (another thing the macho's complain about - safety features - had this guy had such things my Dad would be alive today - don't knock the collision avoidance systems - and lane departure feature that other Jeeps have)
I got my cars to gold award winners not be tossing tons of money at them all at once but by doing it a bit at a time as I could afford.
If I need a better bumper but can't afford new - I go to a swap meet and buy one a bit better than is on my car, then later buy a rechrome bumper and sell what I had and get all my money back and now have that to spend on a better grill. Most of us do that because we aren't swimming in cash like the big boys here.

No wonder some with the lesser desired Jeeps and the wimpy Overlands are afraid to post - they are afraid of being mocked and jeered at for not doing it how some believe it has to be done. (and yeah, I've received messages stating as much)

Some of us like our Jeeps stock, some don't need nor want a heavy all-steel bumper and don't need to pull 20,000 pounds of tree out of the ground, but still want a winch. Some of us like to keep the existing payload.
If he was doing something stupid, I'd be among the first to talk about it. But he's not.
And I'm reading how he did this because I may do similar - when you don't have money you have to think harder - you can't just toss dollars at something.
This place at times can sure be a rich playground for the elite. Some of us have fixed incomes but still want to play the game.
Or does this game require an official league ball with signatures from best hitters in order to play? Don't participate if you don't follow the rules of some of have deep pockets?
Way to make the guy feel like a second class person for sharing his ideas on doing it differently.
If I get booted, so be it. As Lois Lane said in Man of Steel "so, if we're done comparing xxxxs here........."
 

Up venture

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This is the route I'm going. Just need time to install. Yeah I know the rule of thumb is 1.5-2x the GVWR. My truck is rated at 5800 but a curb weight I'm around 4600 and for the most part I run pretty light and with a snatch block I don't feel like I would need more. Definitely could have used it this past weekend so I'm hoping to get it together soon before our next major snow.

pixlr_20191203093612919.jpg
 

ShadowsPapa

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Unless you are pulling something straight up........ it's macho to have a 10 ton winch, but in reality, so many of us load 3,000-4,000 pound cars onto trailers with a come-along and do fine. I have pulled dead cars with frozen front hubs onto trailers with a 2,000 pound winch and a snatch block.
Just need account for rolling weight, and the pull resistance if pulling out of a hole, up over a rocky ledge, etc. You are typically not pulling dead weight straight up and you double capacity with a snatch block - even more with another.
Having worked in a shop with wreckers pulling dead and smashed cars and trucks up over embankments, out of muddy fields, and so on..... capacity is nice, but sometimes it goes more for bragging rights, honestly - that's the thing, if people base it on reality and not emotion.
So with that winch you could LIFT 8,000 pounds dead weight straight up........... - your vehicle is not even 2/3 that even with some gear on board. Unless you intend to use it to lift your JT off the ground and up to the top of a ledge, it should get you out of almost any scrape.
That's a good deal on the bumper - but for me, towing, I don't want to give up the airflow. Otherwise, that's a tempting price.
 

Lucifer

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I didn't say he HAD to do anything. But i would think safety is a concern when putting something on your bumper that's going to pulling on something trying to get it out of a bad situation. But i guess since you've decided that you're speaking on his behalf. Yeah, this is a toy. If you're buying this to use just as a truck, you bought the wrong vehicle. People buy this for the fact that it's a Jeep, but it's just a little more than that. They're doing all the mods that are out there for the cool factor. This is not your typical truck, although it has the ability to do some things, it's not something that you wouldn't mind it getting trashed on a job site.There are just some people in this world who feel they need to complain about everyone and everything. You Shadowspapa just happen to be that perfect example. Like i said before, Take it to a shop and get expert advice from people who do these types of installs before you listen to some loud mouth who thinks he's a speaker of the people.
 

ShadowsPapa

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So pulling on the frame horns where the tow hooks are anchored isn't safe. He's going to rip the bumper and tow hooks off if he tries to use it. OK. Guess we'd better spread the word about those tow hooks being only for looks.

Speaking for all -
>>They're doing all the mods that are out there for the cool factor. <<
Not for utility like a front hitch to help park trailers or maneuver a boat trailer on the ramp, or winch to help in the case of a person who has a tree service........ and more... ok, only for the cool factor. So you are dictating why people buy these - all people.

>>Yeah, this is a toy. If you're buying this to use just as a truck, you bought the wrong vehicle. <<
Then it's just a toy for all of those who bought it to replace another truck and wanted something in addition to a boring truck or one that could actually haul or tow and still be able to have a larger rear seat area, better ground clearance, comfort for long trips, or something they could take the top off while taking a boat to the lake - it's a toy to all buyers, nothing else.

Maybe a toy for you - but I see differently in some of the responses by others who are actually using them as a truck.
Not everyone here is adding stuff - look at those running STOCK save for a few things like people do to any other truck - like I did with my Silverado. Maybe that was just a toy, too, since I added a few things to it over the years.

Expert advice - well, I've run shops, I've worked on MidAmerican Energy's trucks, installed hitches on farm trucks and other large trucks (hell of a lot bigger than these Jeeps), worked on wreckers - including winches, lockers, and more, repaired their back hoes and trenchers, built trailers, repaired tractors, extended grain truck frames, installed boxes and lifts, extended tractor frames to extend the wheelbase on Case's largest two wheel drive tractors.
I know nothing about frames, welding, structural strength, nothing.

I don't speak for everyone - but I do tend to speak up when I see those with less money to throw at stuff but still want to get something done get smacked down.

If people don't like what I say - they can ignore me. Free country - or is it?
 
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Bjeepz

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I ran the Warn stubby on both my JK and JKU with a Warn M8000s. I didn’t tow so that wasn’t a factor for me. OP If you’re not towing heavy loads frequently there should be no real concern with a winch mounted on top of the bumper.

My concern for you is buying a cheap ugly part that will eventually need replacing either due to the stock bumper being damage from very little and when you walk up to your sweet new JT will you really be happy with this cheap add on?

A good rig needs a quality steel bumper and a quality winch, a few hundred extra bucks up front will make you happier in the long run.
 

Troybilt

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I didn't say he HAD to do anything. But i would think safety is a concern when putting something on your bumper that's going to pulling on something trying to get it out of a bad situation. But i guess since you've decided that you're speaking on his behalf. Yeah, this is a toy. If you're buying this to use just as a truck, you bought the wrong vehicle. People buy this for the fact that it's a Jeep, but it's just a little more than that. They're doing all the mods that are out there for the cool factor. This is not your typical truck, although it has the ability to do some things, it's not something that you wouldn't mind it getting trashed on a job site.There are just some people in this world who feel they need to complain about everyone and everything. You Shadowspapa just happen to be that perfect example. Like i said before, Take it to a shop and get expert advice from people who do these types of installs before you listen to some loud mouth who thinks he's a speaker of the people.
If your skill level is not up to installing a winch than yes please take it to a shop. The rest of us will do it ourselves while we pound beers.:beer::beer::beer:.

Neither one is wrong:headbang:
 

ShadowsPapa

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I realize in reality the tow hooks are attached to the bumper which is attached to the frame by the 8 bolts which attach the bumper.
This may be viewed by some as not sufficient. But if the tow hooks are rated for the vehicle and could be attached otherwise to recover then why not in this circumstance.
I am not saying this my forever solution and may next spring upgrade the bumper and allow for lower winch placement.
I am just waiting for the firestorm here.
My "guess" is the bumper FACE is a polycarbonate - not your grandfather's plastic. Could be wrong but many many auto makers are using it now because it's not a crystalline structure like other plastics. Only the bumper face is "plastic", my guess, a polycarbonate.

The base of the bumper is steel. That's the real bumper. So we can't really call it a plastic bumper with that steel structure behind it. It has a poly face over steel.
The tow hooks would be mounted to something that Jeep made to be strong enough to pull another vehicle with - or where another vehicle could pull the JT with. The tow hooks would never be placed on anything fragile, it's assumed you would use them either to pull or be pulled. Otherwise you'd see a disclaimer "not to be used for real, these are for macho looks only, to impress people".
If you want more capacity and don't want the full force of the pull to be placed on your winch mount, use a bloody snatch block and split the force - if you need to pull yourself out of something put the snatch block on a tree or solid object "out there" and run the cable through it and back to a tow hook. If you are pulling something else - another vehicle, put the snatch block on the other vehicle and again, run the cable through it and back to a tow hook. That way half the force is on the tow hook. You can use multiple snatch blocks if you have enough cable and cut the load even more. If you intend to use the Jeep for anything, get a good snatch block and a good tow strap and keep both with the vehicle at all times. That way if someone ELSE pulls you out of a bind, you'll have a good strap and snatch block and don't have to worry about someone putting a chain on and messing things up.
I only use straps on vehicles I care about. (I've made most of my own shop equipment - engine hoist, engine stand, and have a gantry crane that can lift a sprint car straight up so you can back a trailer under it and set the car down onto the trailer. Also home-built)
 
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alM

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Appreciate the support. I of course am willing to take constructive criticism but yes we all have places to direct discretionary money. You need to balance. If I determined that setup was a hazard I would change setup. But there is no supportive evidence of that. The Winch is not connected to plastic. I see steel bumpers with the winch mounted on top, and not down lower inline with the frame. They are still indirectly attached to the frame, as is the ROCKHARD4x4 setup.
Have a Merry Christmas everyone!, and have fun in the snow ❄ if you get it.
 

Bjeepz

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Appreciate the support. I of course am willing to take constructive criticism but yes we all have places to direct discretionary money. You need to balance. If I determined that setup was a hazard I would change setup. But there is no supportive evidence of that. The Winch is not connected to plastic. I see steel bumpers with the winch mounted on top, and not down lower inline with the frame. They are still indirectly attached to the frame, as is the ROCKHARD4x4 setup.
Have a Merry Christmas everyone!, and have fun in the snow ❄ if you get it.
It is a hazard..... for your eyes!! it is also a lot of extra work to install over just picking up something like an inexpensive smittybilt stubby. but that is just my opinion, best of luck to you.

 

 
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