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biodiesel

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The cooling gurus discovered that swapping grilles on the 2014 - 2019 Ram trucks made a big difference in cooling. Some grille styles had larger openings and flowed more air to the radiator compared to other styles. So, sometimes small modifications can achieve big gains.

I've found that the third gen diesel engines run much cooler than the second gen engines, at least in the Ram 1500. I can benefit from the winter front cover on my 2020 when temps hit 30*F and below for best fuel economy. I don't need a winter front on my 2015 until temps get down below 15*F. One reason why the tow rating is so much higher on the 2020 trucks is because it can handle the heat. The 2014 - 2019 trucks were limited by heat. Ram also opened up the grille a lot more on the 2020+ trucks and relocated the intercooler.
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biodiesel

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Can’t compare the 3.0 in the Dodge, that’s a full-size truck, with lots of room in the engine compartment, with a different cooling system.
The tuning is different, also.

Diesel cannot out tow the 3.6 due to manufacture capacity limitations. The reasoning is the cooling system which has been discussed on this forum and various online reviews of the JT.

The diesel may be able to “out perform” the 3.6 when towing, but It will certainly not “out tow it” as stated in your post (due to manufacture capacity limits).
I can't speak for jdwhichard, but I'm guessing that he meant the diesel would outperform the Pentastar, and he would be right. Even FLT said there was a vast difference between the EcoDiesel and the Pentatar when it came down to towing.
 
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Dyzard

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I th
The tuning is different, also.



I can't speak for jdwhichard, but I'm guessing that he meant the diesel would outperform the Pentastar, and he would be right. Even FLT said there was a vast difference between the EcoDiesel and the Pentatar when it came down to towing.
I think when it comes to out performing I agree with your statement like its just a more powerful engine so yes it'll tow more smoothly and have less issues tugging that weight I think the real debate comes down to is it worth overloading your payload capacity because you can still get a decent well more than decent trailer these days at around 4500 lbs and that gives you 2k before you're at your legal limit. But with the payload capacity of around 1250 or whatever it is that tongue weight is almost half of your payload leaving you with close to 500-600 lbs payload left. Add the average adult just one and now you're looking at 300-400. Even if you take two vehicles and don't have family in the truck with you now you're left with very little weight. So any jeep upgrades even if you go light weight you're extremely limited on. And this is why I'm thinking go max tow. I could tow the same trailer, probably get worse gas mileage and not get up hills as easily but I'd be well within legal limits and have peace of mind thinking this is in the range I want and I'm not pushing my numbers at all.

Thats where my heads at anyways. Like I'd love a diesel but I think the payload capacity is what makes it a no for me, that and for the same price I can get some nice upgrades on the max tow for comfort and driving experience that I wouldn't be able to afford with the diesel.

Now the other issue is I wanted a willys because it came with some pretty nice stuff and I'm going to have to add that to the max tow so skid plates, lift, tires bumpers etc etc because I do want to wheel it, it definitely makes it an interesting build just being more cogniscent of what I'm putting on it so I don't max out the payload but I think that's quite a bit harder to do with the max tow over the diesel. Plus the wide Dana 44, and big brakes, axles are pretty much set XD
 

ssteve

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If you think you could be happy with the 3.6 go for it. I know that if it was the only motor option available that I wouldn't have ever even considered buying a JT. I am sure the safety nazi's will lose their stuff but I wouldn't hesitate to overload the diesel some if done properly. Id take a truck loaded low and a few hundred lbs over a truck right at capacity that has a roof tent, fluid on a rack etc which is pretty common these days. Timbrens, better shocks, good weight dist. hitch and send it.
 
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Dyzard

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If you think you could be happy with the 3.6 go for it. I know that if it was the only motor option available that I wouldn't have ever even considered buying a JT. I am sure the safety nazi's will lose their stuff but I wouldn't hesitate to overload the diesel some if done properly. Id take a truck loaded low and a few hundred lbs over a truck right at capacity that has a roof tent, fluid on a rack etc which is pretty common these days. Timbrens, better shocks, good weight dist. hitch and send it.
I had thought about this and was pretty convinced that oh it'll be fine just close to or just a bit overloaded but I think the big selling point for me is that I would really like it to be multi purpose, from towing, daily driver, and some wheeling. Granted I'm not going to do anything crazy wheeling. But I would still like to. And I think that's why the max tow suits my needs better. The diesel is tempting but I just feel ill be able to satisfy my needs more with the max tow
 

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Thats where my heads at anyways. Like I'd love a diesel but I think the payload capacity is what makes it a no for me, that and for the same price I can get some nice upgrades on the max tow for comfort and driving experience that I wouldn't be able to afford with the diesel.

Now the other issue is I wanted a willys because it came with some pretty nice stuff and I'm going to have to add that to the max tow so skid plates, lift, tires bumpers etc etc because I do want to wheel it, it definitely makes it an interesting build just being more cogniscent of what I'm putting on it so I don't max out the payload but I think that's quite a bit harder to do with the max tow over the diesel. Plus the wide Dana 44, and big brakes, axles are pretty much set XD
This is where you're going to get in trouble. Bumpers and armor are heavy so you'll need to go superlight mode to still be able to actually tow. It's not hard to add 400# or more to the truck in armor and even in a max tow, that's almost a third of your payload rating. Figure in the larger tires (150# for a set) and beefier suspension along with two adults and your max tow can no longer max tow because 10% tongue weight puts you way over GVWR.

This is what I was getting at earlier... you either buy the truck to tow and do very little else with it or you need to get something bigger that can do both. A mid-size pickup just doesn't have the payload to armor up and safely tow even a 3,500 lb trailer.
 

biodiesel

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This is what I was getting at earlier... you either buy the truck to tow and do very little else with it or you need to get something bigger that can do both. A mid-size pickup just doesn't have the payload to armor up and safely tow even a 3,500 lb trailer.
It's easier said than done since so many people can only afford one vehicle to cover multiple applications. But I agree, if you're going to off-road, then you need to be towing something very lightweight, which is why I posted the link to lightweight off-road trailers.

My purpose for a Gladiator EcoDiesel is to use it as an utilitarian vehicle. It will be the perfect little tractor for driving on forest/BLM roads, towing a small utility trailer, and still be a good commuter to town or the city to pick up parts, groceries, etc. There's nothing on the market that really compares to the Gladiator, so it's good for what I would use it for.

But I also have two Ram 1500 trucks and we'll be replacing the 2500 Cummins with a 3500 Cummins, so we've got all our vehicular wants/needs covered.

They say a jack of all trades is a master of none, but the Gladiator does many things well, but not to the extreme.
 
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Dyzard

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Yeah I understand all that and I'm not going to be going crazy with anything at all I've been looking at the lighterweight bumpers and as far as road armor goes I'm more concerned with specific skid plates just going to have to be mindful
 

danielspivey

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I ran this by a buddy of mine who works for State Farm and is an adjuster. He said it is very hard for them to prove the over capacity based on add ons, numbers, lifts etc. they would actually have to prove that that model, with those mods has a particular capacity. An example would be how to calculate that 35s actually take away from tow capacity.... how would they prove that they decrease towing ability? He was like it’s not like to tires are in the cab, they aren’t putting the weight on the suspension.


He said the capacity stickers are mostly for law enforcement, they can easily glance and make a determination. An example would be a guy with 1500 lbs of concrete in the bed. That would be easy to calculate and give a ticket.

He did tell me they had issues denying claims when they insured both a tow vehicle and trailer, and the capacities didn’t match. An example of that would be getting a 8k dry trailer and towing it with a rubicon. The neglect would be partially on them for insuring it in the first place. He did emphasize that the door jam capacities are mostly for law enforcement and scale stations.

in regards to the JT being a “rock crawler”, sorry I just find this comical. Are people really buying them to be a rock crawling machine? Why not buy a JLU? Gladiator is likely most optimal for over landing. They are also definitely targeted to get the audience of people like me. People who like jeeps but need moderate towing capacities. Are they made to tow every day? Heck no. Can you technically tow a 7500 k trailer of hay if you need to, yep.

These were made to meet the demand of lots of markets. Are they a towing machine? Nope. Are they designed to be a rock crawler? No, That rear break over angle proves they weren’t. Can they do a lot of things good? Yep.
 

Jeeperjamie

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I ran this by a buddy of mine who works for State Farm and is an adjuster. He said it is very hard for them to prove the over capacity based on add ons, numbers, lifts etc. they would actually have to prove that that model, with those mods has a particular capacity. An example would be how to calculate that 35s actually take away from tow capacity.... how would they prove that they decrease towing ability? He was like it’s not like to tires are in the cab, they aren’t putting the weight on the suspension.


He said the capacity stickers are mostly for law enforcement, they can easily glance and make a determination. An example would be a guy with 1500 lbs of concrete in the bed. That would be easy to calculate and give a ticket.

He did tell me they had issues denying claims when they insured both a tow vehicle and trailer, and the capacities didn’t match. An example of that would be getting a 8k dry trailer and towing it with a rubicon. The neglect would be partially on them for insuring it in the first place. He did emphasize that the door jam capacities are mostly for law enforcement and scale stations.

in regards to the JT being a “rock crawler”, sorry I just find this comical. Are people really buying them to be a rock crawling machine? Why not buy a JLU? Gladiator is likely most optimal for over landing. They are also definitely targeted to get the audience of people like me. People who like jeeps but need moderate towing capacities. Are they made to tow every day? Heck no. Can you technically tow a 7500 k trailer of hay if you need to, yep.

These were made to meet the demand of lots of markets. Are they a towing machine? Nope. Are they designed to be a rock crawler? No, That rear break over angle proves they weren’t. Can they do a lot of things good? Yep.
Tell these guys it's comical. It's all about knowing what your doing. If he replaced that stock rear bumper with a high clearance rear bumper he would cut out some that scraping but either way it's getting it done. Rock Crawling philosophy, if your not scraping then your not doing it right.

 

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Jeeperjamie

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Saw this, not a Max tow but a Rubcion and he seems to love how it tows. 3.5" lift and 37's towing almost 7,000lbs

 

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Another one for reference. On 38's and 3.5" lift towing around 4500lbs

 

GoVR46

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in regards to the JT being a “rock crawler”, sorry I just find this comical. Are people really buying them to be a rock crawling machine? Why not buy a JLU? Gladiator is likely most optimal for over landing. They are also definitely targeted to get the audience of people like me. People who like jeeps but need moderate towing capacities. Are they made to tow every day? Heck no. Can you technically tow a 7500 k trailer of hay if you need to, yep.

These were made to meet the demand of lots of markets. Are they a towing machine? Nope. Are they designed to be a rock crawler? No, That rear break over angle proves they weren’t. Can they do a lot of things good? Yep.
I built my JT for rock crawling, Go ahead laugh at me.
At least I'm out there having fun with a more versatile vehicle then a Wrangler. (I can haul multiple motorcycles without a trailer.)
Was supposed to have done the Rubicon trail last year but Covid postponed it.
Will be doing the Rubicon trail this year once the snow starts melting.

Cheers.

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I'm definitely not a member of the tattle-tale safety police, but I think it's borderline stupid when a guy throws 37-39" tires and a lift kit on a midsize truck and then tows a sizeable trailer with it. If he has to make a panic maneuver, how do you think those tall sidewalls and flexy suspension are going to react? It's not going to end well.

Yeah I've towed with 35s, but when I towed HEAVY I put the stock tires and wheels back on my JT simply for the safety and performance benefit.

There's an old saying that I've tried to remember over the years. "Just because you can doesn't mean you should."

As far as the legal aspect goes, if a guy had no worries about getting into trouble with the law or having a potential insurance claim denied, then what he could do is go ahead and get the EcoDiesel in the JT and then add the Timbren SES kit to it. Then he'd have the practical ability to handle large payload WITH the superior torque of the EcoDiesel engine. It would be the best possible combo. It would slightly decrease your off-road articulation, but for use as a truck on-road it would be as good as it gets.
 

Jeeperjamie

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I'm definitely not a member of the tattle-tale safety police, but I think it's borderline stupid when a guy throws 37-39" tires and a lift kit on a midsize truck and then tows a sizeable trailer with it. If he has to make a panic maneuver, how do you think those tall sidewalls and flexy suspension are going to react? It's not going to end well.

Yeah I've towed with 35s, but when I towed HEAVY I put the stock tires and wheels back on my JT simply for the safety and performance benefit.

There's an old saying that I've tried to remember over the years. "Just because you can doesn't mean you should."

As far as the legal aspect goes, if a guy had no worries about getting into trouble with the law or having a potential insurance claim denied, then what he could do is go ahead and get the EcoDiesel in the JT and then add the Timbren SES kit to it. Then he'd have the practical ability to handle large payload WITH the superior torque of the EcoDiesel engine. It would be the best possible combo. It would slightly decrease your off-road articulation, but for use as a truck on-road it would be as good as it gets.
What about a spacer lift, stock suspension but 2.5 spacers and 37's that are E Rated, stiffer sidewall, would that not be safer. Here in NC I see plenty of trucks lifted and with 37" plus tires towing heavy equipment and stuff around.
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