Ecodiesel power derating as temps rise?

[Escape.idiocracy]

Looking at this picture. You have the 2 plugs and the heat exchanger passages. Oil will take the path of least resistance. Think most of it will flow out of the plugs. And you will still get flow through the heat exchanger. The percentages, I don't know. For full flow through the plugs. You would need a block off plate.

can we circle back to this??
Which is the oil in and which is the oil out?

I really think that you are hitting a point that’s being glasses over and could actually be an issue.

fluid is going to take the path of least resistance. So, for example if the “in” to the newly added oil cooler is tapped Prior to the oil filter- how much filtering is actually being done now vs how much is bypassing and only being cooled?

can a pipe cleaner be fed through these (or maybe it’s clear as day while handling the unit outside of the vehicle….) ??‍
Just looking for a warm and fuzzy that one problem is being worked while creating another….
?. Thank you all for your patience and understanding with the slow guy….. ???

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[pmpmstrb]

Got the oil filter housing today. Short version is that things look great. Best we can deduce is that the middle port on the right side is the feed from the engine into the housing. From there it goes thru the filter and to the oblong port on the left. It splits in that port and goes back into the engine and into the heat exchanger. After the exchanger the oil enters back into the engine thru the bottom right port. We're pretty sure that black circle is a tstat for the oil to allow the oil to get to temp. The top right port is for the oil to drain out of the filter cup when you remove the filter. We believe the sensor that came with the housing is the temp sensor and it's installed in the oil flow coming from the engine before it enters the filter and the exchanger. So when you're under the Jeep the rear port would be the feed and the front port would be the return. I don't see any benefit to making a block off plate like the 2nd gen had. Plus it would be an absolute PITA to get all the bolts out to install it. The coolant does not pass into the engine like the 2nd gen, it just goes in and out of the exchanger.

can we circle back to this??
Which is the oil in and which is the oil out?

I really think that you are hitting a point that’s being glasses over and could actually be an issue.

fluid is going to take the path of least resistance. So, for example if the “in” to the newly added oil cooler is tapped Prior to the oil filter- how much filtering is actually being done now vs how much is bypassing and only being cooled?

can a pipe cleaner be fed through these (or maybe it’s clear as day while handling the unit outside of the vehicle….) ??‍
Just looking for a warm and fuzzy that one problem is being worked while creating another….
?. Thank you all for your patience and understanding with the slow guy….. ???

Please read my original post. I've quoted it to make it easier. All the answers are there.

 

[NCJL]

I’ve read that the port below the oil filter, the “black circle” is the oil pressure sensor not oil temp.
I have no idea.

 

[pmpmstrb]

I’ve read that the port below the oil filter, the “black circle” is the oil pressure sensor not oil temp.
I have no idea.

That might be possible, no way to tell without looking at the motor side which I can't do. There is a temp sensor by the filter though.

 

[NCJL]

That might be possible, no way to tell without looking at the motor side which I can't do. There is a temp sensor by the filter though.

I went back and read the bypass oil filter installation instructions for the ED. They say sensor closest to the oil filter is pressure.

I was thinking about the extended time to build pressure when adding an external cooling loop between the oil pump and pressure switch. Would the added loop stay primed after shut off? If not the extended delay in oil pressure could be noticed by ECM along with adding “cold start” oil flow delays.

Looking at the pictures it appears the factory has designed the oil filter/cooling assembly to trap oil after shut off. The elevation of the extended cooler should be installed below the factory designed oil return level into the engine, which appears to be around the mid point of the assembly. Parking on a slight grade could also play into this.

Just thinking.

 

[NCJL]

More thoughts.
Will lower oil temps create more soot to build up? The higher temps are used to burn off soot. Could we be solving one problem and creating a long term problem? More regens?

 

[22EcoDs]

I went back and read the bypass oil filter installation instructions for the ED. They say sensor closest to the oil filter is pressure.

I was thinking about the extended time to build pressure when adding an external cooling loop between the oil pump and pressure switch. Would the added loop stay primed after shut off? If not the extended delay in oil pressure could be noticed by ECM along with adding “cold start” oil flow delays.

Looking at the pictures it appears the factory has designed the oil filter/cooling assembly to trap oil after shut off. The elevation of the extended cooler should be installed below the factory designed oil return level into the engine, which appears to be around the mid point of the assembly. Parking on a slight grade could also play into this.

Just thinking.

Would directional flow valves fix this at the cooler? Preventing drainage

 

[Rusty PW]

I have a 34 row Setrab oil cooler on my Nismo. It's position between my radiator and intercooler. It's mounted with the ports on top. If it was mounted any other way. It would drain out everytime you shut the engine off. On restart, you would have an air pocket. If it was mounted with the ports down. It would always have an air pocket that you could never get rid of. It's fed from a thermostatic plate between the block and oil filter. The oil pressure sensor is in the block where the oil filter is. It senses pressure after the filter, now after the cooler.

I also have a diff cooler mounted in the rear of the car. It's a smaller Setrab cooler. It's mounted with the ports up. I'm using a Tilton continuous duty pump and fan.

Plus I'm using a even smaller Setrab cooler on the power steering.

If I'm going to add a cooler to the JT. I'm using a 34 row cooler mounted in front, behind the grill. And using a remote thermostatic plate with an open temperature of 180F. Oil feed and return using the 2 plugs on the bottom of the filter housing.

 

[22EcoDs]

More thoughts.
Will lower oil temps create more soot to build up? The higher temps are used to burn off soot. Could we be solving one problem and creating a long term problem? More regens?

Plotting exhaust temp during full cycle (from cold start) would be able to determine if this is an issue. If it is, a thermostat would resolve it. Find one that say opens only at 230* oil temp?

 

[Rat2Desert]

i had a similar experience like that

Identical experience as well, in Quartzite in the summer. I even let it idle while gassing, drove to a parking spot, then shut down. Derated as I accelerated to get onto the freeway. At least from reading this forum I knew what it was, but very unnerving still.

on page 28 of this thread there's a note about reporting to the NTHSA, I think very valuable to do this. I would hope if enough of us report it they will force Jeep to address the issue, just even via a warning that derate is near or to idle for 5 minutes or whatever.

 

[pmpmstrb]

Identical experience as well, in Quartzite in the summer. I even let it idle while gassing, drove to a parking spot, then shut down. Derated as I accelerated to get onto the freeway. At least from reading this forum I knew what it was, but very unnerving still.

on page 28 of this thread there's a note about reporting to the NTHSA, I think very valuable to do this. I would hope if enough of us report it they will force Jeep to address the issue, just even via a warning that derate is near or to idle for 5 minutes or whatever.

I'm so glad I was aware of it before it happened. Had I not been I would've freaked out.

 

[CrazyCooter]

I have yet to hear back from NHTSA, so I have to assume it's low priority or like everyone else....they are understaffed with large % of underachievers/silent quitters left over to handle the workload.

 

[Rat2Desert]

I have yet to hear back from NHTSA, so I have to assume it's low priority or like everyone else....they are understaffed with large % of underachievers/silent quitters left over to handle the workload.

Yeah, seems like all government agencies have gone from slow to reverse the past few years. I have not heard anything either.

 

[CrazyCooter]

Yeah, seems like all government agencies have gone from slow to reverse the past few years. I have not heard anything either.

This is why we need more government regulation and control..........To make life better!

 

[Rat2Desert]

This is why we need more government regulation and control..........To make life better!

sigh . . . don't get me started. And I wish I even had my Jeep to be able to worry about a derate . . . 2 1/2 months in the shop so far. Everything is backed up due to supply line issues, lack of mechanics, people testing positive and out of the shop for 10 days. I can't decipher what are real issues and what are just morale/underachieving/general malaise

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