Ecodiesel power derating as temps rise?

[CrazyCooter]

I would assume with a larger than required cooler with fan running, one would see oil temps in the 200° or actual coolant temp whichever is less? Should be interesting what it does under a serious load.

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[CrazyCooter]

Maybe I stand alone with this- I think it would cause Jeep to simply update the tune with less power.

Then it wouldn't pass the J2807 towing test at 6000lb?

 

[@californiajeeping]

I would assume with a larger than required cooler with fan running, one would see oil temps in the 200° or actual coolant temp whichever is less? Should be interesting what it does under a serious load.

It won’t get below engine coolant temp unless you bypass the coolant going to the heat exchanger

 

[pmpmstrb]

It won’t get below engine coolant temp unless you bypass the coolant going to the heat exchanger

Which I haven't done yet. But I did just order a set of the coolant line clamp plier things so I can play around with it without actually having to remove the coolant line.

 

[pmpmstrb]

I would assume with a larger than required cooler with fan running, one would see oil temps in the 200° or actual coolant temp whichever is less? Should be interesting what it does under a serious load.

Going camping in 2 weeks. Will definitely know then.

 

[Rusty PW]

It won’t get below engine coolant temp unless you bypass the coolant going to the heat exchanger

Yep. With the oem heat exchanger still plumped into the system. What ever the oil cooler cools the oil to. The heat exchanger will put some heat back into the oil. One way of keeping the heat exchanger out of it. Is to install a 3 way bypass valve into the coolant lines to it. Warm weather, switch the valve to bypass the heat exchanger all together. Cold weather, switch the valve to flow coolant through the heat exchanger to heat the oil up some.

 

[Hondo1]

Which I haven't done yet. But I did just order a set of the coolant line clamp plier things so I can play around with it without actually having to remove the coolant line.

Don’t do that, the coolant goes from oil cooler to egr cooler.

 

[CrazyCooter]

It won’t get below engine coolant temp unless you bypass the coolant going to the heat exchanger

Thats what I have observed on long downhills is that oil equalizes with coolant temp wirth no loads. Assuming it's the thermostat in the oil filter adapter.

 

[@californiajeeping]

Going camping in 2 weeks. Will definitely know then.

Let us know how it fares. I am also looking at adding the cooler. I think it provides more flow than the bypass setups.

 

[Rat2Desert]

Maybe I stand alone with this- I think it would cause Jeep to simply update the tune with less power.

Perhaps, though in this particular circumstance I don't think it would helped to have less power. It was just myself in the vehicle, not towing, very lightly loaded. Quartzite is at the bottom of a long downhill, even with an ambient of 115 my temps were low when I stopped.

I've done a lot of towing heavily loaded since and not had a derate. I keep EGTs below 1200 and never shut down until I'm stopped for the day.

 

[Escape.idiocracy]

Perhaps, though in this particular circumstance I don't think it would helped to have less power. It was just myself in the vehicle, not towing, very lightly loaded. Quartzite is at the bottom of a long downhill, even with an ambient of 115 my temps were low when I stopped.

I've done a lot of towing heavily loaded since and not had a derate. I keep EGTs below 1200 and never shut down until I'm stopped for the day.

For sure, I just dropped another note on one of your other posts- similar. Jeep advertises x towing capacity- it should be ok to do this and not have to jump through hoops.
Factory turbo timer and egt gauges should have been standard as well.
I have a full size diesel for towing big/heavy…. Not asking a lot from the jeep….

 

[NCJL]

Got the bypass filter and cooler installed with a few hundred miles of comparison complete.

The first 4 pics were done after the exact same drive. Only difference is time of day. On this drive with factory set up I would see peek oil temp at 240*. The pics were taken after coming to stop. The drive is a gradual climb with lots of corners. Average speed is about 45mph

Factory

Bypass filter and cooler. No fan.
Edit. This pics is the last pic in post.

Bypass filter and cooler with Fan On.

Bypass filter and cooler with Fan On plus Water Wetter added to the coolant.

As you can see not much difference. The difference I saw while driving was the peek oil temps. The first pic was 240*, second pic was 237*, third pic was 235* and fourth pic 231*. The biggest difference was adding the Water Wetter to the coolant. Maybe the factory uses a not so “cool” coolant for the EcoDiesel.

Today we also did the drive that caused my first experience derating (National Forest). I derated due to hi temps causing many false sensor readings. Not specifically oil temp. When the derate happened I immediately started looking at oil temp for the rest of the trip home. Had to stop many times to cool off to get home that day. On this day the oil temps peeked at 248* and consistently showed above 240*. I traced this to wire harnesses directly above the power steering pump.

Today I never had a Peek oil temp above 235*.

The Bypass filter and cooler system has added 3 quarts of oil to the system. At 25 PSI oil pressure the flow rate is .75 quarts per minute.

The cooler is cooling the oil by 75* plus. I’m only estimating this by the fact that I cannot touch the oil pressure line leaving the engine, however I can touch and hold in my hand the return line and fill cap without issue when the engine oil is at 205*.

 

[bl1ndman]

I had a thought today. I was wondering the theoretical difference would be made by ether a EGR delete or deactivation. Not say one should do it, because of the implications, just wondering what an A/B test would result in.

From my understanding, the ERG valve get extremely hot (+1100 F) but the job of the EGR is to lower combustion temps.

So I am wondering if not having to cool the EGR would make up for the increase in combustion temps that are absorbed into the engine?

 

[Gladihater]

Diesel engines actually do better the hotter they get. Unfortunately this whole system exists for the sole purpose of reducing N02out the tail pipe. In order to do that, they have to introduce O2 to cool the combustion chamber below the NO2 producing threshold which is about 2400 degrees. This of course makes the combustion less efficient and introduced soot into the combustion chamber, intake manifold and EGR - All the typical symptoms that have plagued Diesel engines for years and why the DPF and EGR delete even exist. It also creates a more back pressure which for a turbo is less efficient because it has to do more work. So you introduce a problem, then use DPF to try and fix that problem and to keep it all in check, I’m guessing the ECU derates power to ensure that when the combustion gets too hot (sustained towing in hot temps over grade) that the EGR can keep emissions in check. So I personally don’t think it’s a design problem. I think it’s a meeting diesel emissions solution that was designed in. The reason for derating is a complete hypothesis on my part.. but I think it’s to pass emissions. I’ll bet if you remove all that crap, you’ll have cooler temps. I think what people are doing with cooling is a bandaid to the bigger issue or “solution” depending on how you look at it. Cooling things externally will only get you so far (but maybe enough for an individuals needs). It will always be relative to the load and ambient temps over time. I’ve seen videos on delete systems and in the Jeep eco diesel it looks like a nightmare. Anyway, just my thoughts

 

[Gladihater]

correction… I said EGR to keep things in check when I meant ECU.

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