Mark another one dead

[Deleted member 28696]

1. Can’t overstate that. If it weren’t for my close friends out here, I’d be gone.

2. I think that’s what happened here. The kickdown was too much. In that sense, could I have seen it coming and prevented it? Probably. But if that’s the case, it was inevitable. If it wasn’t this time, when I was close to home, it would have eventually happened, potentially out on the trails.

As for rebuilding, still on the fence - there is a stock engine on eBay with 4K miles, but a 392 swap is oh so tempting.

An LS swap would be nice, the hemi might be more straight forward.

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[BlueScapegoat]

2JZ and N54 this is not. If you can, protect yourself.

But how cool would a 2JZ be...

Anyway, I've got a diesel Gladiator, no personal experience with the 3.6, but I have a supercharger on the 4.0 in my TJ. It's a risk that's taken when you decide to slap boost onto an engine not designed for boost. Seems like everybody involved here is pretty realistic about it. That extra pressure is pushing a bunch of parts beyond what their engineered safe margins are, and some parts may not be up to the task. I haven't followed the 3.6 forced induction world at all, but if Dave's tunes are running around in multiple Jeeps, and pulling loads, and the AFR looks good, and the data logging looks good, then I doubt it's a bad tune to suddenly affect one in such a catastrophic way. Sounds like bad luck with an OEM part that let go. I'm just speculating, though. Parts fail.

What boost are people targeting with the pentastar anyway? I run my 4.0 at 6-7ish. Just curious how high strung they are, pretty sure the 3.6 is a considerably higher compression ratio, no? 4.0 is a tractor engine by comparison

 

[1BadCtdBrute]

To those that have watched the video I posted, any ideas as to the sound/origin??

 

[ryanlsmith]

To those that have watched the video I posted, any ideas as to the sound/origin??

I thought it was the lifter tick, but sounds like you tried fixing that already. Definitely doesn’t sound pleasant. Hopefully you can get some input from someone more knowledgeable.

I still haven’t decided which direction to go. Stock for stock, not sure how I feel about this engine in general.

 

[1BadCtdBrute]

Same here. It’s a “modern flat-tappet” POS to me as of now.

 

[1BadCtdBrute]

What boost are people targeting with the pentastar anyway? I run my 4.0 at 6-7ish. Just curious how high strung they are, pretty sure the 3.6 is a considerably higher compression ratio, no? 4.0 is a tractor engine by comparison

Mine is on the stock Magnuson pulley so not much. I don’t blame the tune in any way, shape, or form. This is a re-engineered minivan motor and I should have known better. My 2009 JKUR, with an even worse example of a motor, has 160k miles, and gets beat on in the mountains. My son’s ‘99 XJ has 320k miles and purrs like a kitten. It’s a failure in assembly in my opinion. No place in any of the wrenching I’ve done have I used black or dark gray RTV but it’s on the timing chains and in the VVL solenoid screens, so who knows??

 

[1BadCtdBrute]

This…… wiped rod bearings??? And more Three Bond. It was pretty over-applied to the lower pan.

 

[DAVECS1]

This…… wiped rod bearings??? And more Three Bond. It was pretty over-applied to the lower pan.

I am not sure what the bearing construction is in these engines but usually a rod bearing has a copperish glitter color. That looks like straight iron or aluminum

 

[1BadCtdBrute]

Whatever it is my engine knocks like it has no oil in it. Luckily it has maybe 100 miles on it since the Magnuson install. What would be iron/steel and not be the brand new cams/lash adjusters/followers/phasers??? I did have the wrong lash adjusters on bank 1, and the VVL solenoids all looked much worse than the pickup screen, clogged with Three Bond. It’s been suggest that it could be a timing chain tensioner but I think it would have to be all of them for the chain to have enough slack to contact anything. That sound would be easier to hear/find. My knock is in the V of the motor. If anyone has any ideas I am listening. I’m out tons of $$ on this already, might as well throw away some more.

 

[jwolfejt]

I have built in pretty stout torque management on the 850Re. The torque converter should unlock on a down shift and allow the gear to slide in. I actually have been working to make that a smoother transition.

This was complete unexpected as I have about 400 hours of data on this version of 2021 tune.

I have nothing solid to go off of here. Anything would be speculation.

And as far as how things are going, that is all Ryan he is being a very reasonable about this.

I am pretty rattled.

Before today I would of swore up and down this platform can be made to work reliably long term, now I have no leg to stand on

Its more than likely not an issue that either you or the OP could have seen. Nowadays i see plenty of people pushing close to 400whp with stock honda longblocks (B series) back in the late 90s/early 00's people used to blow them up ALL the time at very low boost levels. Friend of mine had a really similar issue to this with a Miata s/c he installed (jackson racing I believe) he had a tank of bad gas - pretty much identical issue - could also be this and you guys don't know about it. Was the OP's PCM the Late '21 change ? If so i am in the same boat and unsupported even though superchips lists support (I think I know better). I am pretty surprised that there isn't very many turbo options out there for these engines -they seem like prime candidates for this. "It's not built for forced induction" is nonsense... sure you would want a stronger bottom end for more boost and probably more relaxed ring gaps. But there are plenty of folks with challengers pushing 440whp with ripp superchargers and minimal issues. I do not see any significant design flaws with these engines at all... any issues they have had is mainly due to bad batch parts, etc. I've had plenty of good friends who have pushed these engines beyond 100k and one who has put over 280k miles on his 1500 ram.

I love the Hemi's and the way they sound but you won't find a shortage of people there complaining about valve traing ticking/valve noise (and cams being ground down due to failed roller lifters) and you WILL absolutely have to take the heads off to fix that issue on a Hemi. @ryanismith I would just replace it with a new longblock and move on from this. From what i've seen of Hemi swaps they are insanely expensive $40k+ installed and the installers will not sell you a DIY kit of sorts (from what I was told) it requires the cab to be pulled off the frame, old mounts cut off and new ones welded on (it is not a job for the faint of heart), would be really cool don't get me wrong, but figuring the financial hurt your going through it makes no financial sense.

I am genuinely surprised there is limited stuff out there when it comes to upgraded internals for these engines.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Folks have been hotrodding since prohibition

Since before that........

 

[ShadowsPapa]

1. California sucks. You need some 93 Octane goodness.

Only if the detonation couldn't be controlled with tune and valve manipulation, etc.
Octane only reduces the fuel's tendency to self-ignite.

Detonation does cause a very high, very sharp jump in pressure - of very short duration, but was there detonation going on here?

 

[Elff]

Sadly he was not logging so we will never know

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Sadly he was not logging so we will never know

When these detonate, it's a distinctive ping. Don't know how loud the added equipment is on these as far as the SC, belts and so on. IF the RPM was high enough, there shouldn't have been any detonation but if it was "romped" starting at a lower RPM, who knows.
RPM helps prevent detonation.

Even at that, the 3.6 was redesigned in 2015 (for the 2016 model years and forward) with the idea of turbo being an eventuality, even direct injection at some point.
The bearings in these aren't like the bearings of 10 years ago.

And yes, I saw reference to open deck earlier - these are but there are open deck engines handling a whole lot more boost than this would have been running by a large margin.

 

[rharr]

@OP, No autopsy yet? Or very least a drain pan drop?

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