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ShadowsPapa

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This was a level lift - 2" - I was planning on wheels and tires - so if it stays at 4500, with just the engine cooling added... and my brother said something about a transmission cooling and making sure the tires are sufficient (he's going to send me more info I just don't know) ...how do I find out how much I would be able to tow?
Stock tires are sufficient - don't get hung up on load ratings for these trucks because even the stock tires have ratings that exceed anything the truck can carry.
I tow and for years have towed 5,000 and more with totally stock/factory tires, no fancy load ratings. I've towed heavy tractors with my trucks - always on factory tires.

The tires that came with my Overland have a max rating of 2535.
Take just the rear end of the truck, that means 5070 total over the two rear tires
Assuming a rear axle weight, stock, of 2500 pounds, that's still 2500 pounds for trailer tongue weight and payload - and your truck won't have that much payload.
10,000 pounds over 4 tires, a heavy Gladiator loaded down with accessories won't take over 6,000 pounds, that's 4000 pounds for tongue weight and payload - that the truck can't carry.
The tires will handle more than any Gladiator will handle.
Where people want the extra tire toughness is off-roading and such, but if you are talking towing, any tire rated at least as much as the factory tires, or even more, will be fine.
My tires don't even get warm on a hot day of towing.
I stop at rest areas, check the tie down straps holding my car onto my car hauler, check the hitch and safety equipment and check the tire sidewalls and bearing areas. They never run hot.
A key can be keeping the tires aired up for the extra load.
It's the air inside the tire holding the weight of the vehicle up - psi working against the tire's footprint. So more weight means you need to add air.
I might run my tires at 36 psi for normal driving, but I'll air up to 38-40 psi towing.
Think of a balloon - you push it against the floor with xx amount of pressure to squish it a given amount. If you put more weight on it you squish it more - so you add enough aid to keep it squished the same amount as before when the extra weight is added.
I air up for towing, and air back down when done.
You do want to make sure that you don't go down in tire weight ratings - that is definitely a legal area. If you exceed the tire's weight ratings while towing or hauling payload, that's a federal thing and troopers can stop you for that if they have reason to suspect, or if you have an accident, etc. (that's first-hand information from the horse's mouth)

You'll never be able to figure how much a modified truck can tow - it's all in the engineering - height/center of gravity, width, tire size and weight, and a whole lot more.
Tow ratings come from not only engineering for a goal, but SAE testing as well. They engineer toward a goal, run it through the testing to see if it can get through the test. If not, they go back and figure out where it failed and make the needed changes. Once it passes the testing, that's where it gets the rating for that model of truck, equipped as it comes from the factory.
There's no chart or formula where you can say "I've made this list of changes, now what is my rating".
Just know that your tow rating is as equipped from the factory. Modifications to wheels, tires, added accessories adding weight, changes in the height (a lift, which changes center of gravity, steering and braking performance) all work to change the towing ability in negative ways.
Because the testing is acceleration, steering, and braking under specific conditions, any change in height will drop the ability of a truck to safely tow down.
Larger tires reduce braking ability- increase braking distance, for example.
A lift makes it less stable in emergency towing situations.

In other words - we go right back to - you need to get a truck that's made to tow what you need to tow even after you modify it and end up reducing the towing ability by unknown numbers.
Don't take a 4500 pound towing capacity truck and think you are going to modify it and add weight and now be able to tow more.

You could get into civil court and insurance situations if you try to tow too much with a modified truck and have an accident.

I just can't see a way where this turns out as you want in the end since you also plan on modifications to it - and have already reduced the factory number with a lift.
Even a max tow with a lift won't still have the same capabilities and safety margins it came with from the factory once you start lifting and adding tires and wheels.

In other words - it's got to be a choice - will it be a work/tow vehicle, or one for play and mods?
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RockisJT

RockisJT

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Thank you, I should be paying you all for all the information you are providing even if it's not what I want to hear.

I'm a lady, so of course I want it all :angel: I want it to work for me and play a little. I love the look of it with the lift. If I knew all this before buying, I wouldn't have had the lift put on because it doesn't make sense - with my limited budget - to have it if it can't work for me too. I don't really want another full size truck.

Still no word from the dealer.
 

Gvsukids

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If you go back to page 2 of this thread, it seems like there are several models that will meet your towing capacity requirements, but are not “Max Tow.”

Might make it easier to find a replacement.

Just a thought.
I didn't see any on page 2.
 

johnchabin

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They've got themselves covered in the language.

The HITCH has a 7650 towing capacity when "properly equipped" = Max Tow.

Then it says, do not exceed what's in the owners manual.

Go off this:

1707347512720.png
Here’s what ecidiego posted… breaks it all down 👍
 
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RockisJT

RockisJT

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I called today about 4 since I hadn't heard. Sales manager said he couldn't get the higher ups together today. I will know what options (if any) I will have by Monday around 2.

I did ask what the odds were of undoing the deal and he said he couldn't answer that.
 

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Idlethunder

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I called today about 4 since I hadn't heard. Sales manager said he couldn't get the higher ups together today. I will know what options (if any) I will have by Monday around 2.

I did ask what the odds were of undoing the deal and he said he couldn't answer that.
Hopefully I’m wrong but in my opinion, you will not come out of this with what you thought you were buying if you are nice about it. There are lots of Gladiators with a high enough rating to tow what you have mentioned but your current one isn’t it.

I read somewhere in this thread that your current JT is rated to tow 6,000 pounds. Using your numbers, the trailer and single horse come in at 4,900. As ShawdowsPapa has mentioned, on top of the weight of horse and trailer, you have to add the weight of all modifications, yourself and any passengers, plus all the gear you are carrying. Weight adds up very quickly and if you are in a high stress situation like trying to get your horse and yourself away from a fire, you want the odds stacked as heavily as possible in your favor.

Using my Gladiator as an example when I’m alone I’m carrying at least 600 pounds more than it weighed stock. That is just myself, the lift, a heavy steel bumper with winch, steel slider/steps, a few tools, and basic recovery gear. I think my estimate is fairly close, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it is 700 or a little over. If my wife and the dogs are with me, there’s at least another 225. You were told that they were upgrading your Jeep to a Max Tow and that’s what you paid for. There is nothing wrong with being nice and treating people with respect, that’s how I go into every situation. The problem here is that so far they have not shown you the same courtesy. I have a feeling you will need an attorney to make this right.
 

nanook12

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I would undo the deal and get the diesel powered max tow or rubicon. They have to power / suspension you will need to tow a horse trailer. I prefer the Rubicon with the 3.73 gears.
 
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RockisJT

RockisJT

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Hopefully I’m wrong but in my opinion, you will not come out of this with what you thought you were buying if you are nice about it. There are lots of Gladiators with a high enough rating to tow what you have mentioned but your current one isn’t it.

I read somewhere in this thread that your current JT is rated to tow 6,000 pounds. Using your numbers, the trailer and single horse come in at 4,900. As ShawdowsPapa has mentioned, on top of the weight of horse and trailer, you have to add the weight of all modifications, yourself and any passengers, plus all the gear you are carrying. Weight adds up very quickly and if you are in a high stress situation like trying to get your horse and yourself away from a fire, you want the odds stacked as heavily as possible in your favor.

Using my Gladiator as an example when I’m alone I’m carrying at least 600 pounds more than it weighed stock. That is just myself, the lift, a heavy steel bumper with winch, steel slider/steps, a few tools, and basic recovery gear. I think my estimate is fairly close, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it is 700 or a little over. If my wife and the dogs are with me, there’s at least another 225. You were told that they were upgrading your Jeep to a Max Tow and that’s what you paid for. There is nothing wrong with being nice and treating people with respect, that’s how I go into every situation. The problem here is that so far they have not shown you the same courtesy. I have a feeling you will need an attorney to make this right.
I am hoping against hope that I will not need an attorney. My feeling is they are waiting to hear from their attorneys.

I have found a used sport s with max tow - 8K miles. If they reverse the deal I'm going to try for that one. My brother thinks if they do offer to reverse the deal they may make it contingent on choosing something from their lot. I hope that's not the case. They don't have anything that would work for me.

I can't afford a top of the line Gladiator unfortunately, well I could but I would have to sell my horse and that's not happening :)

I do have a tendency to look for the best in people, but that hasn't gotten me very far with this situation. The sales manager does appear sincere but I'm not holding my breath.
 

Idlethunder

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I am hoping against hope that I will not need an attorney. My feeling is they are waiting to hear from their attorneys.

I have found a used sport s with max tow - 8K miles. If they reverse the deal I'm going to try for that one. My brother thinks if they do offer to reverse the deal they may make it contingent on choosing something from their lot. I hope that's not the case. They don't have anything that would work for me.

I can't afford a top of the line Gladiator unfortunately, well I could but I would have to sell my horse and that's not happening

I do have a tendency to look for the best in people, but that hasn't gotten me very far with this situation. The sales manager does appear sincere but I'm not holding my breath.
I can't criticize you, I’m the same way. Sadly, there are a lot of people out there who don’t care about the other guy, and it seems many of those people work in sales. In your situation, for me at least, giving them the benefit of a doubt kind of went out the window when they installed a receiver and called it the Max Tow package.

I’m trying not to think too harshly of them without hearing how far they are willing to go to try to resolve the situation. From the things you’ve said it sounds like the sales manager is trying and I truly hope that he is. The problem with that is that every vehicle I’ve bought in the last 30 years had to be approved by the sales manager so I just don’t see how he could have been oblivious to the situation. My thought is that he knew about it and thought they could get away with it.

I don’t blame you for not wanting to get an attorney involved. I have no idea how lawyers operate in your area but here they will talk to you and give you their opinion before taking a case. Having never used one for anything like this, even one who is able to help will almost certainly slow the process. Resolving it yourself will be the best and fastest option.

If they do offer a buyback of some sort or a trade for a Gladiator they have on the lot, if the deal can be made to your satisfaction, I’d seriously consider it, although I would find another dealer if you ever needed warrantee work. They may not have anything in stock you are crazy about but if they have or can get a max tow, just about anything you can imagine can be done aftermarket and if you do your research, it will be better than OEM. One of the great things about this forum and the Jeep community overall is that owners are happy to help and share their knowledge. One of the reasons I bought my Gladiator was because I knew there was so much aftermarket support, but I was very surprised how easy it is to find answers or help when needed. One of the people who has several posts in this thread is ShadowsPapa. I cannot count the number of times his posts have helped me and 95% of that came from just reading conversations I was never involved in. I use him as an example because I saw his name toward the top of this page but there are many, many others who are just as helpful.

Whatever happens next, use common sense, and remember it is your money and you need to be happy when this is straightened out.
 

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Killroy Was Here

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I would undo the deal and get the diesel powered max tow or rubicon. They have to power / suspension you will need to tow a horse trailer. I prefer the Rubicon with the 3.73 gears.
Only problem with that advice is they don't make a Rubicon with the Max Tow package as an option.
 

Gvsukids

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I would undo the deal and get the diesel powered max tow or rubicon. They have to power / suspension you will need to tow a horse trailer. I prefer the Rubicon with the 3.73 gears.
No Max Tow on a diesel.

Only problem with that advice is they don't make a Rubicon with the Max Tow package as an option.
Or diesel.
 

nanook12

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Rubicon diesel doesn’t need the max tow. It does fine with the 3.73 gears….has the stiffer suspension, extra cooling and bigger alternator! The additional torque is the main advantage though and the fuel economy doesn’t hurt…
 
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RockisJT

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Nevermind... it doesn't have the transmission cooler, etc.

Can I hear more about this? What about gas? All they have on site are Rubicon's and Mojave's.
Jeep Gladiator Newby Looking for Security Options 1707668034144
 

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Mr._Bill

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Nevermind... it doesn't have the transmission cooler, etc.

Can I hear more about this? What about gas? All they have on site are Rubicon's and Mojave's.
Jeep Gladiator Newby Looking for Security Options 1707668034144
That Rubicon listing, with a gas engine, automatic transmission, and factory Tow Package, will get you the highest Tow Rating possible without going to a Max Tow model.
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