Pentastar power increase

[sharpsicle]

Read what I wrote. I am distilling the argument down to a single factor: Power-to-weight ratio. No considerations for Size, weight, number of cylinders, drag, manufacturer, color, time of day, political affiliation, nada. Just power to weight.
Jeep has what, say 5500 lbs and say 300 hp with my mods and measured at the wheel, say 200ish, OK...Following?
That's 27.5 pounds for each one of those skinny horsepowers...27.5
Now my hunkering Suburban with its muscular haunches is likely around 7400 pounds. But it put down right around 550 ft/lbs of torque on a Mustang dyno
So back to the math stuff once again. 7400/550=13.45
So Jeep pushes 27.5 pounds per horsepower, where the fat burb only has half that work, or 13.45 pounds
Jeep: 27.5
Burb 13.45
But we are not done
We must correct for gearing because wheel torque is a function of mechanical multiplication, right?
Well the Jeep has a 5.13 gear, 37" tire and a .67 overdrive
The Burb has a 4.56 gear, a 37" tire and a .75 OD
Both are aerodynamic train wrecks at 70 mph.
The Jeep has a final numeric ratio of 3.43
The fatso has a final drive ratio of 3.42
Hmmm, pretty doggone close right there
So all other things being equal the Chevy Big Boy has a lot more oomph pushing it than our skinny little V6
No considerations are given to anything else, OK?
Horsepower wins and if it helps in your mind make the Suburban, a, err, Hilux or something like that
And I appreciate your argument, it's all fun in the end and after the dust settles, we still live in a free country and drive Gladiators! ;-)

I mostly agree with this, and is the reason I'm saying don't compare the two. Completely different engine configurations give completely different results as you've clearly shown here. And you must be the first person I've seen make the argument that the number of cylinders doesn't matter. It completely matters. You're experiencing that fact first-hand, so why dismiss it? If you want V8 performance, get a V8! Constantly looking back at your Suburban and using it as the baseline for your Gladiator is honestly meaningless and I'm not sure why you keep doing it.

So I can see a good air path (intake piping) could add 10-15 HP, but I can't bite off on 20.
And sadly the pedal monster does not add any horsepower. It only makes he throttle body respond at a quicker rate. Nossir, without some better tuning we are extremely limited with respect to building in more power.

I think this joke is just going completely over your head each time.

Sponsored

 

[Flyin6]

I mostly agree with this, and is the reason I'm saying don't compare the two. Completely different engine configurations give completely different results as you've clearly shown here. If you want V8 performance, get a V8! Constantly looking back at your Suburban and using it as the baseline for your Gladiator is honestly meaningless and I'm not sure why you keep doing it.

I think this joke is just going completely over your head each time.

Joke, ya, you're right, missed that one...I guess I have my serious/analytical mode turned up too high.

Concur...I would want a V8, certainly...If it were reasonably available. But I'm stuck and trying to expand my battlespace from where I sit. So back to the reason I started this provocative thread. I want some tuning and I bet thousands of you do too! Give me that, and I'll go back to my corner and drive the lower 50 any darned time I want to!
Be good!

 

[@californiajeeping]

The fix for a pentastar is the ecodiesel which blows it away in every possible scenario. Tuning? With a tune and exhaust they make 330 to the tire and 550ish tq.

One recently dynod just over 300hp with 37” tires at 5000ft elevation!

When I had my petastar on 35” tires gladiator it was floored climbing the sierras and got about 14MPG.

try 20-24mpg with the diesel fully loaded on 38s

it’s not too late some ecodiesels are on a stop sale until the updated fuel pumps arrive then you can grab one.

 

[Flyin6]

The fix for a pentastar is the ecodiesel which blows it away in every possible scenario. Tuning? With a tune and exhaust they make 330 to the tire and 550ish tq.

One recently dynod just over 300hp with 37” tires at 5000ft elevation!

When I had my petastar on 35” tires gladiator it was floored climbing the sierras and got about 14MPG.

try 20-24mpg with the diesel fully loaded on 38s

it’s not too late some ecodiesels are on a stop sale until the updated fuel pumps arrive then you can grab one.

Man, don't tempt me!
If I could convert mine to diesel, I would.
I even started a thread here toying with the idea.
Perhaps someone will come along with a good diesel swap into the truck and I can bite off on that. Love diesels, and in hindsight am wanting to kick myself in the buttocks, but, that ship already sailed. I chose the lifeboat and here I am...

 

[sharpsicle]

Joke, ya, you're right, missed that one...I guess I have my serious/analytical mode turned up too high.

Concur...I would want a V8, certainly...If it were reasonably available. But I'm stuck and trying to expand my battlespace from where I sit. So back to the reason I started this provocative thread. I want some tuning and I bet thousands of you do too! Give me that, and I'll go back to my corner and drive the lower 50 any darned time I want to!
Be good!

Just remember to keep your goals SMART:

Specific
Measurable
Attainable
Relevant
Timely

I think the "match my V8's power" doesn't fit with at least 2 of those. Gotta play within the boundaries of the V6's capabilities.

 

[Wolf Island Diver]

Modifying engines is mostly dumb. The world is full of people driving around with expensive bits of trash bolted to their powertrain convinced that they’re making more power or MPGs. Little metal windmills, oiled filters, cat-back exhaust systems, etc. Then there’s a group that digs deeper and runs radical cams, tunings, deletes, etc. This will work to a point, but at the sacrifice of drivability, longevity, reliability, frequently mileage, money and sometimes legality. If it’s a demolition derby or autocross track rat, go for it. But not a road going thing you paid good money for.

The only way to really get more power out of an engine is to increase the movement of air and fuel through the system via displacement or charging. Everything else is small potatoes, or an outright scam.

Yes Maserati can take the 3.6 and tune it to be a higher performing engine. Nissan uses the same basic VQ engine in tons of vehicles with different tunings. But there’s a reason they don’t tune the Pathfinders version like an Infiniti coupe. They also use a lot of different components. Frequently, and critically, the bearings are often different in truck engines than in the sports car versions of the same engine. You don’t want a Maserati 3.6 in a Jeep. Personally I wouldn’t want one in a Maserati.

Tuning shops aren’t doing a lot to the 3.6 because no one wants a blown out 3.6 so there’s no ROI. If you ask your average tuning shop about Pentastar tuning, after giving you a disgusted look, they tell you engine swap. It’s just not a good ROI, yours or theirs.

If you want “power” for towing and off road, then you really want torque which means gearing. If you’re running bigger than stock tires, regear. Anyone who modifies their engine outside of cheap plug and play systems, like a Banks while running big tires, and they haven’t yet regeared back to the stock ratio, is an idiot. That being said, even without rehearing, I’ve yet to run out of low gearing off road on any Jeep (I’ve never not owned a Rubicon, with a lower low range).

If however you want to burn tires up the street, maybe not own a Jeep. Otherwise it’s supercharging, turbo charging or a swap. There’s an old saying “put an LS in it”. In this case, “put an LT in it”. You can usually find a LT or LS out of a wreck for a lot less than a stupid Hemi crate engine. They make kits to integrate the LT into the Mopar ecosystem.

P.s., I can chirp my 37” tires all day long from a stop, cause the truck to squat while driving around town with liberal use of the the vertical pedal and generally hoon it around if I want to albeit mildly, with no aftermarket tuning or even a throttle controller on stock 3.73 gearing. I also still get high 20s on the interstate. It only cost me $4k from Jeep. It’s called the Ecodiesel.

 

[Flyin6]

Just remember to keep your goals SMART:

Specific
Measurable
Attainable
Relevant
Timely

I think the "match my V8's power" doesn't fit with at least 2 of those. Gotta play within the boundaries of the V6's capabilities.

I only need a little bit more to overcome this hunting-for-power thing. 50 should easily do it and make this thing livable.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

Man, don't tempt me!
If I could convert mine to diesel, I would.
I even started a thread here toying with the idea.
Perhaps someone will come along with a good diesel swap into the truck and I can bite off on that. Love diesels, and in hindsight am wanting to kick myself in the buttocks, but, that ship already sailed. I chose the lifeboat and here I am...

I wouldn’t swap in a motor that is available from the factory. Too much work and it probably won’t turn out as good as one that is factory built.

 

[sharpsicle]

I wouldn’t swap in a motor that is available from the factory. Too much work and it probably won’t turn out as good as one that is factory built.

I would agree with this too. No better configuration than factory.

I also think this is becoming a sunk-cost fallacy. Because of how much was spent on the truck with the wrong engine, a move can no longer be justified in his mind to one with the right one. Until that gets resolved, the frustrations will probably continue.

 

[Wolf Island Diver]

Just remember to keep your goals SMART:

Specific
Measurable
Attainable
Relevant
Timely

Looks like your HR department hired the same consultants as mine to sell us bottled common sense. Now I’ve got to create an entirely new set of bullshit yearly goals, that I’ll never look at again until my review when they give me the “merit increase” they’d already decided to give me before the meeting and we review my attainment & “alignment with corporate goals” with management that doesn’t care or think about them either except twice a year.

Through some amazing quirk of the org chart I don’t have to do these reviews from the other side with any of my subordinates. But I suspect that will change next year. Thank God they don’t drug test post-hiring because I’m going to need the assistance of some medicinal foliage to get through asking my people how they see their “personal goals aligning with sector objectives for 2024….blah blah blah….” over Teams without tearing my own face off or putting my head through the window.

 

[TheRealStreetcommander]

The world is full of people driving around with expensive bits of trash bolted to their powertrain

LMAO. It's fun to say incendiary and hyperbolic things. It's more fun when their mostly true...

The VM Motori based diesels are excellent but expensive, difficult to attain, and soon to be fully orphaned. This is not a judgment on the engine but rather a product on the guberment gods we choose to worship and their unelected administrative states bestowed with power and immunity to perform all manner of evildoing and reprobate activities.

 

[Flyin6]

Modifying engines is mostly dumb. The world is full of people driving around with expensive bits of trash bolted to their powertrain convinced that they’re making more power or MPGs. Little metal windmills, oiled filters, cat-back exhaust systems, etc. Then there’s a group that digs deeper and runs radical cams, tunings, deletes, etc. This will work to a point, but at the sacrifice of drivability, longevity, reliability, frequently mileage, money and sometimes legality. If it’s a demolition derby or autocross track rat, go for it. But not a road going thing you paid good money for.

The only way to really get more power out of an engine is to increase the movement of air and fuel through the system via displacement or charging. Everything else is small potatoes, or an outright scam.

Yes Maserati can take the 3.6 and tune it to be a higher performing engine. Nissan uses the same basic VQ engine in tons of vehicles with different tunings. But there’s a reason they don’t tune the Pathfinders version like an Infiniti coupe. They also use a lot of different components. Frequently, and critically, the bearings are often different in truck engines than in the sports car versions of the same engine. You don’t want a Maserati 3.6 in a Jeep. Personally, I wouldn’t want one in a Maserati.

Tuning shops aren’t doing a lot to the 3.6 because no one wants a blown out 3.6 so there’s no ROI. If you ask your average tuning shop about Pentastar tuning, after giving you a disgusted look, they tell you engine swap. It’s just not a good ROI, yours or theirs.

If you want “power” for towing and off road, then you really want torque which means gearing. If you’re running bigger than stock tires, regear. Anyone who modifies their engine outside of cheap plug and play systems, like a Banks while running big tires, and they haven’t yet regeared back to the stock ratio, is an idiot. That being said, even without rehearing, I’ve yet to run out of low gearing off road on any Jeep (I’ve never not owned a Rubicon, with a lower low range).

If however you want to burn tires up the street, maybe not own a Jeep. Otherwise it’s supercharging, turbo charging or a swap. There’s an old saying “put an LS in it”. In this case, “put an LT in it”. You can usually find a LT or LS out of a wreck for a lot less than a stupid Hemi crate engine. They make kits to integrate the LT into the Mopar ecosystem.

P.s., I can chirp my 37” tires all day long from a stop, cause the truck to squat while driving around town with liberal use of the the vertical pedal and generally hoon it around if I want to albeit mildly, with no aftermarket tuning or even a throttle controller on stock 3.73 gearing. I also still get high 20s on the interstate. It only cost me $4k from Jeep. It’s called the Ecodiesel.

Ya, some good points but a lot of opinions too.

I don't think I ever drove a stock anything, and my stuff does not suffer from loss of reliability or live short lifespans. Witness my Duramax truck I recently sold. Had it for over 10 years. Tuned to make 600 HP and 1,200 torque. Had a bigger turbo, larger fuel injection pump, 4.56 and so forth. It was dead reliable and 20mpg highway/17 around town. You already know about the burb...Crazy gas/supercharged power in that thing and you could drive it to Taiwan if someone built a bridge.

There is this overriding belief that if you tune things and make them more powerful, then their reliability goes to crap. Not true, really. Do it right and you get the same reliability/lifespan.

I flew a regional jet that had GE CF34 fans. I think mine made 14,400 thrust each. The same exact engine sits on the pylon of the A10 where it makes substantially more power. Do you think the Air Force is taking chances with their expensive planes and pilots? Nope, the engine is just built and operated well.

I do believe that OEM wishes that we would leave stuff alone so they don't have to warranty the repairs. With OEM, it's ALL about the bottom line. I think things like engines and drivetrains are built with a pretty large margin of safety so that we make it to 3 years or 36,000 miles with no visits to the garage except for oil changes. That's what I think.

America's real problem with modifying things is that we are festooned with boneheads who don't know up from down. Give a high schooler HP tuners with all of that kid's experience and you can get a lot more power and also a fat repair bill in a day or two.

 

[Belcher24256]

Jeep gave you the answer… came in a 3.0 variation… ??‍

Very true statement! I add a 3000 pound boat behind mine and head up the mountain and you never know it’s behind you where torque/power is concerned.

 

[Flyin6]

Looks like your HR department hired the same consultants as mine to sell us bottled common sense. Now I’ve got to create an entirely new set of bullshit yearly goals, that I’ll never look at again until my review when they give me the “merit increase” they’d already decided to give me before the meeting and we review my attainment & “alignment with corporate goals” with management that doesn’t care or think about them either except twice a year.

Through some amazing quirk of the org chart I don’t have to do these reviews from the other side with any of my subordinates. But I suspect that will change next year. Thank God they don’t drug test post-hiring because I’m going to need the assistance of some medicinal foliage to get through asking my people how they see their “personal goals aligning with sector objectives for 2024….blah blah blah….” over Teams without tearing my own face off or putting my head through the window.

I think I'd hate to be you at the moment!
Get to retirement, if that is even possible anymore.
Then stop drinking the Kool-Aid, buy a flannel shirt, meet your buddies for breakfast, and go buy guns.
You have my prayers, sounds like you need them!

 

[Beungood]

The aftermarket is ignoring it because there is not enough demand to justify the expense.

I have plenty of power to accomplish everything I need to do. I can cruise along at 80mph with no issues, and have easily hit over 95mph passing other vehicles on two lane highways. Like many of the Gladiator owners that buy and never visit forums like this, I drive a mostly stock Overland.

Maybe if the prices they charge were more affordable more people would avail themselves of it?

Sponsored