School a Toyota guy on reliability

[Chadh1972]

Be warned on 18 and newer Toyota’s. If you do any suspension mods, they will not do any recalls or maintenance on the radar/PCS system. They put a sticker on my steering column saying my truck has been modified and they will not be responsible if I get in an accident while using PCS or the radar. They also made me sign a waiver before I could get my truck back. This all occurred, after I took it in for an emissions recall they didn’t tell me about. I only found out, when DMV wouldn’t let me update the annual registration. Plus, once they did the emissions recall my truck is now averaging 11.6 mpg. Mind you my truck is only running 34’s with a 2.75” lift.
We just bought my son a 19 JLU and are loving it. Looking at replacing my tundra with a JT Rubicon.

Jeep has their own lift and they recalibrate your speedo for you if you change tire or gear size.

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[LostWoods]

Be warned on 18 and newer Toyota’s. If you do any suspension mods, they will not do any recalls or maintenance on the radar/PCS system. They put a sticker on my steering column saying my truck has been modified and they will not be responsible if I get in an accident while using PCS or the radar. They also made me sign a waiver before I could get my truck back. This all occurred, after I took it in for an emissions recall they didn’t tell me about. I only found out, when DMV wouldn’t let me update the annual registration. Plus, once they did the emissions recall my truck is now averaging 11.6 mpg. Mind you my truck is only running 34’s with a 2.75” lift.
We just bought my son a 19 JLU and are loving it. Looking at replacing my tundra with a JT Rubicon.

Jeep has their own lift and they recalibrate your speedo for you if you change tire or gear size.

They didn't refuse to do the work outside the initial 2-3 weeks before the secondary guidance was issued at which point it was the waiver of liability and the sticker. This is textbook modification of the truck outside the intended operating parameters so why should they take responsibility for it? The system was designed to operate in an OEM configuration and lifting changes that outside any testing parameters.

I'm willing to put $20 on Jeep doing the exact same thing if they have to recall. Recalls are federally mandated once issued and Toyota couldn't refuse to do them just because it was lifted. A JL/JT uses a very similar system and the variance in height and rake (which is waaaay worse on a Jeep) would require a substantial tolerance built into the programming.

That said, Toyota never tagged my Tacoma as modified and I didn't even have the original grille installed where the radar sensor is. As with most things, it depends on the dealership. I absolutely hated the system in my Tacoma as it tried to kill me on more than one occasion so that was a hard 'no' on the shopping list when I bought the JT.

 

[Chadh1972]

They didn't refuse to do the work outside the initial 2-3 weeks before the secondary guidance was issued at which point it was the waiver of liability and the sticker. This is textbook modification of the truck outside the intended operating parameters so why should they take responsibility for it? The system was designed to operate in an OEM configuration and lifting changes that outside any testing parameters.

I'm willing to put $20 on Jeep doing the exact same thing if they have to recall. Recalls are federally mandated once issued and Toyota couldn't refuse to do them just because it was lifted. A JL/JT uses a very similar system and the variance in height and rake (which is waaaay worse on a Jeep) would require a substantial tolerance built into the programming.

That said, Toyota never tagged my Tacoma as modified and I didn't even have the original grille installed where the radar sensor is. As with most things, it depends on the dealership. I absolutely hated the system in my Tacoma as it tried to kill me on more than one occasion so that was a hard 'no' on the shopping list when I bought the JT.

They wouldn’t even do the recall. I understand saying they won’t stand behind the update, due to the modifications, but to not do it. So people are reporting the dealerships turned the system off and now they have malfunction light on. The radar recall is the minor issue. The loss of 2mpg after an emissions recall is why I’m dumping it.

 

[hjdca]

They wouldn’t even do the recall. I understand saying they won’t stand behind the update, due to the modifications, but to not do it. So people are reporting the dealerships turned the system off and now they have malfunction light on. The radar recall is the minor issue. The loss of 2mpg after an emissions recall is why I’m dumping it.

Check your speedo and odometer with a GPS. The dealer might have messed up your adjusted speedo calibration for the bigger 34" tires when they hooked up to your computer. Without the re-calibration, Bigger tires will make your speedo and odometer register less miles than you are traveling and will look like worse gas mileage

 

[LostWoods]

They wouldn’t even do the recall. I understand saying they won’t stand behind the update, due to the modifications, but to not do it. So people are reporting the dealerships turned the system off and now they have malfunction light on. The radar recall is the minor issue. The loss of 2mpg after an emissions recall is why I’m dumping it.

That's just a misinformed service advisor then. There was a supplementary notice that went out as to how to do the recall on lifted and those with modified grilles.

I'm curious what emissions recall you had done though... I never got a notice for that one on my 2018.

Check your speedo and odometer with a GPS. The dealer might have messed up your adjusted speedo calibration for the bigger 34" tires when they hooked up to your computer. Without the re-calibration, Bigger tires will make your speedo and odometer register less miles than you are traveling and will look like worse gas mileage

Toyotas don't allow for speedometer or tire re-calibration so I doubt anything was screwed up. The re-calibration they do is just related to the height and angle of the sensors to make sure they're within spec.

 

[Chadh1972]

That's just a misinformed service advisor then. There was a supplementary notice that went out as to how to do the recall on lifted and those with modified grilles.

I'm curious what emissions recall you had done though... I never got a notice for that one on my 2018.



Toyotas don't allow for speedometer or tire re-calibration so I doubt anything was screwed up. The re-calibration they do is just related to the height and angle of the sensors to make sure they're within spec.

The recall is KOA

 

[nlicalsi91]

I'm a Toyota nut, specifically Land Cruisers, but I have a Tacoma also. This new JT is in many ways checking a lot of the boxes that a 70 series Land Cruiser checks, and also a lot of the boxes that we dream of the Tacoma checking, but the Tacoma is steadily devolving into a more and more car-like luxury truck with some nagging reliability problems. But reliability has always been T's strong suit - amazing reliability.

So if I bought one of these Jeep critters, what can I expect, reliability-wise? I think the Pentastar is a pretty tried and true engine - what kind of longevity are we looking at? What about the manual transmission? If the Wrangler format (and this is basically that format) has a reliability problem, what is it?

Thanks a lot.

I have a 2005 Land Cruiser, original owner, with 81,000 miles. Never had a single problem. All I did was oil changes every 3k miles. It sits right next to my 2015 JKU which in the past 74,000 miles has had the oil cooler housing seal, rear main seal replaced and all 24 lifters and tappets replaced in the engine. A Jeep will never be as reliable as the older Toyota’s but I love mine to death!

 

[@californiajeeping]

I had a 2015 jk 2 door 6 speed.

I had three issues:

1) throw out bearing creaking noise. Dealer replace 2 in 40kish.

2) lifter tick when engine was hot. Dealer changed a lifer/follower.

3) battery died at 40k dealer did not replace it and said it was fine after leaving me stranded twice. 120$ later and 5 minutes good to go.


I had 35s on it and would bounce it off the rev limiter almost every shift did burnouts and railed that jeep. It did rock crawling foredyce all the ohv areas it was awesome. I beat the hell out of it and in 4 years sold it for exactly what I paid for it as far as purchase price. Lost tax licence and all modifications obviously.

No Tacoma holds their value like that none. Base models are better than rubicons as they cost less and depreciate slower as they are cheaper used so more desirable. Just my opinion.

 

[Old Skool]

The only real Toyota competitors to the JL are the Series 70 trucks and the Hilux, both are unavailable in the US due to emission controls and not meeting safety standards. Look both up and they are very stripped down and simplified vehicles regard electronics and controls. Both are very austere in any refinements and creature comforts. Not much to go wrong with the mechanicals and pretty easy to maintain and repair in a shade tree mechanic sort of way. Makes them very popular in 2nd and 3rd world counties.

We used a Series 70 crew cab in Namibia last year and while I found it very capable and reliable there was not much more to praise in it. All the outfitters use them but they still have problems.

The "HI-LUX" can't be sold in the United States due to the "CHICKEN-TAX" Thanks to The "L.B.J." Administration go on you tube type in the Chicken tax and Light Trucks

I believe Canada won't allow Hi-Lux or any foreign made Trucks the Tarriffs would be "25%"
That's why Toyota and Nissan built factories in the United States

 

[Dryfly24]

Lifelong Toyota guy turned JT owner here.

Traded in a beautifully modded up 2019 Tacoma for my 2020 Rubicon JT and haven’t looked back. My JT ticks all the boxes the Tacoma couldn’t for me. Nice truck but I hated the Tacoma.

The ultimate question that only time can answer is how well will the Jeep hold up? Reliability is the big question. But in every other head to head category, I like the JT better.

I have been driving Jeep products on and off the last 25 years and constantly wranglers as daily drivers since 2011.

My only warranty repairs were as follows:
2012-Cylinder Head replacement—known issue on ‘12 3.6
Turn Signal switch replacement. Traded at 43k miles.

2014- no issues traded at 53k miles

2016- no issues traded at 40k miles

2018 JL currently at 21kmiles—steering damper replaced, software flash for electric power steering stiffness in cold temperatures.

Overall my Jeeps have been exceptionally realiable and I would recommend over any Toyota product!

Not trying to be an ass but just saying. Those all sound like they were low mileage vehicles. Pretty hard to make such a bold claim as “exceptional reliability” with that mileage. I’ve seen Toyota’s that were abused and had mileage well into the 300K - 400K’s with zero issues other than routine maintenance work.

That to me says exceptionally good reliability. That’s what I’d love to see out of my JT.

 

[WXman]

Lifelong Toyota guy turned JT owner here.

Traded in a beautifully modded up 2019 Tacoma for my 2020 Rubicon JT and haven’t looked back. My JT ticks all the boxes the Tacoma couldn’t for me. Nice truck but I hated the Tacoma.

The ultimate question that only time can answer is how well will the Jeep hold up? Reliability is the big question. But in every other head to head category, I like the JT better.




Not trying to be an ass but just saying. Those all sound like they were low mileage vehicles. Pretty hard to make such a bold claim as “exceptional reliability” with that mileage. I’ve seen Toyota’s that were abused and had mileage well into the 300K - 400K’s with zero issues other than routine maintenance work.

That to me says exceptionally good reliability. That’s what I’d love to see out of my JT.

Well seeing as how Toyota trucks have a history of being pure garbage, I can't imagine that your JT would last any less time on the road than a Tacoma.

The first gen of Toyotas were literally rusted when they rolled them off the ship. I guess the salt in the air over the pacific ocean ate them up. Maybe that's why you had to pay extra if you wanted bumpers.

The second gen (first Tacoma) had a cool feature. The frame would fold like a lawn chair. Made it really easy to fit them into a garage.

The third gen loved to eat head gaskets. And the plastic beds cracked in cold weather or when loaded heavy. And the recalls and TSBs started to pile up by this point....

Here we are with the 2022 models coming out on basically the same platform we saw in 2004. Drum brakes? Seating position from the Corolla? Worst transmission in the segment? Weakest engine in the segment? A locker that takes 4 minutes to engage? The worst fuel economy, lowest payload, and least towing in the class? And people buy this garbage over every other brand?

I just don't get it....

Like I've said before, show me a Toyota with 400k on the clock and I'll show you six Jeep XJs with 500k on the clock. Toyota reliability is one of the greatest myths spread to the American people in history.

My wheeling buddy in college ran a Tacoma. If I had a $10 bill for every time I towed him home on a trailer behind the Jeep I just wheeled with him all weekend I could buy something very nice today.

 

[dcmdon]

The "HI-LUX" can't be sold in the United States due to the "CHICKEN-TAX" Thanks to The "L.B.J." Administration go on you tube type in the Chicken tax and Light Trucks

I believe Canada won't allow Hi-Lux or any foreign made Trucks the Tarriffs would be "25%"
That's why Toyota and Nissan built factories in the United States

That's also why the Subaru Brat was imported with seats in the bed.

see. Its not a truck. Its a 4 passenger coupe.

Re reliability. Its farcical to suggest that Jeeps have long term reliability on par with Toyotas. Yes tundras rusted in the past. And that's a big deal.

But rust won't leave you stranded somewhere. Pretty much all Toyotas and especially the Land Cruiser are known for running 200k miles with no serious mechanical issues.

 

[LostWoods]

Well seeing as how Toyota trucks have a history of being pure garbage, I can't imagine that your JT would last any less time on the road than a Tacoma.

The first gen of Toyotas were literally rusted when they rolled them off the ship. I guess the salt in the air over the pacific ocean ate them up. Maybe that's why you had to pay extra if you wanted bumpers.

The second gen (first Tacoma) had a cool feature. The frame would fold like a lawn chair. Made it really easy to fit them into a garage.

The third gen loved to eat head gaskets. And the plastic beds cracked in cold weather or when loaded heavy. And the recalls and TSBs started to pile up by this point....

Here we are with the 2022 models coming out on basically the same platform we saw in 2004. Drum brakes? Seating position from the Corolla? Worst transmission in the segment? Weakest engine in the segment? A locker that takes 4 minutes to engage? The worst fuel economy, lowest payload, and least towing in the class? And people buy this garbage over every other brand?

I just don't get it....

Like I've said before, show me a Toyota with 400k on the clock and I'll show you six Jeep XJs with 500k on the clock. Toyota reliability is one of the greatest myths spread to the American people in history.

My wheeling buddy in college ran a Tacoma. If I had a $10 bill for every time I towed him home on a trailer behind the Jeep I just wheeled with him all weekend I could buy something very nice today.

You don't get it because you clearly have a bias.

Both are good vehicles and the 4.0L era was pinnacle Jeep. The 90's Toyota Pickup/Tacoma was pinnacle Toyota trucks (minus the 3.0L head gaskets). The difference is that Jeep has not maintained a reputation for longevity since that time while Toyota, even with the frame recall, still sees the Tacoma regularly surpassing high marks. The Tacoma definitely has its shortcomings but mechanical reliability is not one of them.

And, let's be real here, the frame rust issue is just as much lack of preventative care as anything given how many flawless ones I've seen from the rust belt. Your beloved XJ fares no better in the same conditions.

 

[Dryfly24]

Well seeing as how Toyota trucks have a history of being pure garbage, I can't imagine that your JT would last any less time on the road than a Tacoma.

The first gen of Toyotas were literally rusted when they rolled them off the ship. I guess the salt in the air over the pacific ocean ate them up. Maybe that's why you had to pay extra if you wanted bumpers.

The second gen (first Tacoma) had a cool feature. The frame would fold like a lawn chair. Made it really easy to fit them into a garage.

The third gen loved to eat head gaskets. And the plastic beds cracked in cold weather or when loaded heavy. And the recalls and TSBs started to pile up by this point....

Here we are with the 2022 models coming out on basically the same platform we saw in 2004. Drum brakes? Seating position from the Corolla? Worst transmission in the segment? Weakest engine in the segment? A locker that takes 4 minutes to engage? The worst fuel economy, lowest payload, and least towing in the class? And people buy this garbage over every other brand?

I just don't get it....

Like I've said before, show me a Toyota with 400k on the clock and I'll show you six Jeep XJs with 500k on the clock. Toyota reliability is one of the greatest myths spread to the American people in history.

My wheeling buddy in college ran a Tacoma. If I had a $10 bill for every time I towed him home on a trailer behind the Jeep I just wheeled with him all weekend I could buy something very nice today.

Lol… Lets just say I‘ve read very similar posts about Jeep’s over on the Toyota sites from the Toyota fan boys. Any brand with a deep fan base is going to be full of these posts with massive exaggerated claims about the poor quality competition. Theres always an acorn of truth turned into a massive oak tree of claims.

I don’t feel like getting into a long internet debate or argument over something I really have no interest in because I have no brand loyalty to any manufacture.

I Will say from personal experience I’ve had way less problems from any Toyota I’ve ever owned than any other make of vehicle - and I’ve driven many because I spent 23 years with an entire pool to choose from at work.

The worst I ever drove was the brand new Dodge Durango converted into a K-9 unit. Biggest POS I ever drove; by 18K miles, they had to give me an F-150 because the Durango had spent more time in the dealer’s repair shop than it had on the road.

I‘ve seen many Corolla‘s and camrys passed around family and friends that were well north of 400k. Same with Tacomas and Tundras. None of those issues you mentioned. I guess we were just lucky. The reason it took me so long to buy a Jeep was becaue of all the problems my brother experienced with his, but he just kept buying new ones hoping his luck would improve till he finally just gave up.

Again, not a fan boy or I wouldn’t be driving a JT which as I’ve said many times over, is the most fun I’ve ever had with any previous vehicle I’ve owned. I absolutely love this truck but if it turns out to be a hunk of junk I’ll move on. I‘ll be hugely disappointed yes, but I don’t don’t owe the brand anything. I don’t owe ANY brand anything. On the contrary I believe the manufacture’s owe us - the consumers.

I’m gonna leave it at that. I’m sure you’ll be chomping at the bit to point out how wrong I am and how Jeep is the end all and be all of reliability because Toyota is put together with duct tape and twine, etc.

Feel free. IDGS, it’s just a brand on an inanimate object and I’m not married to any of them. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. People get wrapped up in this stuff way too much IMO…

 

[dcmdon]

Sample sizes of one don't count.

Its all about probability.

You are far less likely to end up with
1) a problem that leaves you on the side of the road dead
2) a problem that the dealership can't seem to figure out and fix

with a Toyota.

With that said, I'm getting ready to roll the dice on a Jeep.

But I'm not going to delude myself into thinking I'm getting something as reliable as a Land Cruiser. Which was also one of our considered vehicles. But the Jeep won out because of the fun factor and the pickup truck utility.

p.s. Initial quality is a nice feather to have. But it measures the number of problems that you have in the period immediately after delivery. While this is nice. Its not how most of us define reliability.

https://www.businessinsider.com/longest-lasting-car-brands-miles-2020-4#1-toyota-18

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