"Sport S,ing" a Rubicon . . . ? and Towing Thoughts

[Pk2abilene]

If 650 lbs is the margins to make or break it for me with payload or towing, I would be looking for another vehicle. Quite frankly, I do not like going over 75% of rated capacity to begin with, let alone taking it to the max limit.

You are correct sir. A 4K Lance truck camper in the back of my 1 ton dually squatted it, and changed the handling enough, to need air bags to make it feel safe at highway speeds. It’s rated for way over that. People flirting with max tow in real life driving are kidding themselves

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[futzin']

If I was needing to buy today it would be an R-Pod 195 or a Rockwood Mini Lite 2109S.

We have a similar unit to the 2109S. 2015 25KS, Flagstaff MicroLite. We love it. We would not be towing it with a JT.

I want to tow (at least somewhat comfortably) a Homesteader Hercules 714HT round nose, with 4wheeler and camping/hunting gear inside. Also has AC, powered vent, windows. This thing is tall and catches a lot of wind, and I tend to pack heavy. Unfortunately, I've never weighed it. I need to get off my butt and do that. The other thing I really should do is load up the trailer and tow it with the wife's 2015 Durango with Pentastar V6, rated at 6200 lbs. The 'Rango and the trailer are seldom in the same place at the same time, but a test tow would give me an idea of how the JT would do with it. Wind dynamics would be different, though. I've only towed the Hercules around town once with the Rango, with a light load. It did fine; I used the paddle shifters to choose my shift points. I'm guessing 5K lbs should cover the loaded weight of it.

I'd love to not use a WDH; I strive to place my heavy items between the axles of the vehicle and over the axles of the trailer. Pretty sure I'd need one though, to help with sway. I'd be towing 2-3 hours, mix of interstate and 2 lane, primarily.

 

[bgenlvtex]

We have a similar unit to the 2109S. 2015 25KS, Flagstaff MicroLite. We love it. We would not be towing it with a JT.

I want to tow (at least somewhat comfortably) a Homesteader Hercules 714HT round nose, with 4wheeler and camping/hunting gear inside. Also has AC, powered vent, windows. This thing is tall and catches a lot of wind, and I tend to pack heavy. Unfortunately, I've never weighed it. I need to get off my butt and do that. The other thing I really should do is load up the trailer and tow it with the wife's 2015 Durango with Pentastar V6, rated at 6200 lbs. The 'Rango and the trailer are seldom in the same place at the same time, but a test tow would give me an idea of how the JT would do with it. Wind dynamics would be different, though. I've only towed the Hercules around town once with the Rango, with a light load. It did fine; I used the paddle shifters to choose my shift points. I'm guessing 5K lbs should cover the loaded weight of it.

I'd love to not use a WDH; I strive to place my heavy items between the axles of the vehicle and over the axles of the trailer. Pretty sure I'd need one though, to help with sway. I'd be towing 2-3 hours, mix of interstate and 2 lane, primarily.

Yeah looks like that 25KS is north of 4700 dry, meaning it is going to be the better part of 6k loaded. I contacted Forest River and asked them if they would build a 2109 with no slide. It really is unnecessary and I would estimate adds 300 pounds to the trailer. With a slide it is just under 4200 dry so maybe 38-3900 without a slide. They said "Ehhhhh, no.". There is a lot to like about that trailer but the weight combined with the aero concerns me, it needs to have less weight or be more aerodynamic or both.

I wouldn't even consider crossing the 50% tow rating mark on a mid sized truck without a weight distributing hitch, if for no other than the anti-sway component. Certainly not for marathon distances.

 

[WXman]

I'm no expert, but I don't think the suspension is the issue. It's the added weight from all of the armor underneath the Rubicon. If you removed the off roading armor/protection stuff underneath you're going to get pretty close to Sport S for towing and payload.

Primarily the tow rating on a Rubicon is derated because it weighs more. I don't think the suspension has much if anything to do with it.

Lockers, skid plates, bumpers, sway bar disconnect, rock rails, hood, wider axles, all add up to that 650 pounds I imagine.

More importantly since the notion that a Gladiator will actually tow 7000, much less 7650 without substantial distress is largely garbage, I think the whole point is moot.

The more I look into it, the more I'm starting to think this is true. The weight penalty is the only reason the Rubicon has lower payload and towing. So from a practical standpoint, Rubicon can haul and tow anything Sport Max Tow can.

However, it's important to remember that there is a legal aspect to this also. From a legal standpoint, the door placard rating is king. So even if you stripped a Rubicon down completely and rid it of 400 lbs. of curb weight so that it would match the Sport, you'd still have a 400 lb. lower payload, and consequently a much lower practical tow rating if you carry a family in the truck with you.

I've been saying all along that guys who are buying Gladiator primarily as a truck to use for work should go with the Max Tow and I still think that's true.

And, Gladiator was tested using SAE J2807, so the tow ratings are not overblown and unrealistic. They are very realistic and safe, IF you follow the manual.

 

[Rex3rd]

The more I look into it, the more I'm starting to think this is true. The weight penalty is the only reason the Rubicon has lower payload and towing. So from a practical standpoint, Rubicon can haul and tow anything Sport Max Tow can.

However, it's important to remember that there is a legal aspect to this also. From a legal standpoint, the door placard rating is king. So even if you stripped a Rubicon down completely and rid it of 400 lbs. of curb weight so that it would match the Sport, you'd still have a 400 lb. lower payload, and consequently a much lower practical tow rating if you carry a family in the truck with you.

I've been saying all along that guys who are buying Gladiator primarily as a truck to use for work should go with the Max Tow and I still think that's true.

And, Gladiator was tested using SAE J2807, so the tow ratings are not overblown and unrealistic. They are very realistic and safe, IF you follow the manual.

Another thing to realize just like the weight of the Rubi kills the tow rating by the time you add hevy steel bumpers a winch a bedrack ect it slowly eats your towing and payload numbers.

 

[Ichthus]

ACAD made the implication earlier, but just to be clear: nothing you do will change or increase the tow rating of a Gladiator....or any vehicle. The tow and load capacity are determined by highly regulated tests and are partially calculated using the gross vehicle weight. This is why trim levels and options and even engine upgrades can reduce allowed loads.

Basically, from what I understand, the manufacturer sets a goal load/tow rating, tests to assure that it can achieve that, makes adjustments as needed, then certifies it. If, later, they add weight to the vehicle in the form of a Diesel engine, steel bumpers, etc, but don’t want to pay for new certifications, then the tow and load ratings are simply reduced.

All we can do, with modifications, is help the truck tow better...or screw it up. Throw a WDH and airbags in the back and the truck will perform better, but it won’t change the rating. Add a 707hp Hemi V8 and it will tow better, but it won’t change the rating. If anything, what we should consider is that the weights should probably be decreased to account for the weight we have added.

That said, it sounds like you’re more worried about the rated margins between capability and load, with the expectation of towing about 5k lbs...so get whatever trim level you like, upgrade the brakes, and go have fun.

 

[bgenlvtex]

The more I look into it, the more I'm starting to think this is true. The weight penalty is the only reason the Rubicon has lower payload and towing. So from a practical standpoint, Rubicon can haul and tow anything Sport Max Tow can.

However, it's important to remember that there is a legal aspect to this also. From a legal standpoint, the door placard rating is king. So even if you stripped a Rubicon down completely and rid it of 400 lbs. of curb weight so that it would match the Sport, you'd still have a 400 lb. lower payload, and consequently a much lower practical tow rating if you carry a family in the truck with you.

I've been saying all along that guys who are buying Gladiator primarily as a truck to use for work should go with the Max Tow and I still think that's true.

And, Gladiator was tested using SAE J2807, so the tow ratings are not overblown and unrealistic. They are very realistic and safe, IF you follow the manual.

LOL, it's 2019. Leftists ignore every legal concern they wish. Millions of illegals flood our country. Millions more defraud the welfare services of the taxpayer. Leftists beat their political opponents with impunity and the political elite fleece the taxpayer for trillions of dollars a year. Globalist elites trade in human lives and rub it in our noses. The alphabet agencies have long ago departed the well being of the American citizen and have become agents of politics.


GVWR placard on my Jeep is the rough equivalent of the tag on my mattress.

 

[WXman]

LOL, it's 2019. Leftists ignore every legal concern they wish. Millions of illegals flood our country. Millions more defraud the welfare services of the taxpayer. Leftists beat their political opponents with impunity and the political elite fleece the taxpayer for trillions of dollars a year. Globalist elites trade in human lives and rub it in our noses. The alphabet agencies have long ago departed the well being of the American citizen and have become agents of politics.


GVWR placard on my Jeep is the rough equivalent of the tag on my mattress.

This is all 100% true.

However, sad thing is, the upstanding citizen like you or I will get hammered to the wall first time we cause a car crash while overloaded.

There's always somebody just looking for a reason to sue. If you're the sued, and you're broke or illegally here, you get a free pass. But if you're sued and you have a family, career, and bank account you're F****D.

 

[bgenlvtex]

This is all 100% true.

However, sad thing is, the upstanding citizen like you or I will get hammered to the wall first time we cause a car crash while overloaded.

There's always somebody just looking for a reason to sue. If you're the sued, and you're broke or illegally here, you get a free pass. But if you're sued and you have a family, career, and bank account you're F****D.

I know, I'm just venting. I'm a law abiding individual (other than speed laws) and like you point out that is rooted in the fact I have something to lose.

I've had enough of people disrespecting the laws of our nation for political convenience.

Torches and pitchforks, now on sale Aisle 5.

 

[Bobzdar]

The more I look into it, the more I'm starting to think this is true. The weight penalty is the only reason the Rubicon has lower payload and towing. So from a practical standpoint, Rubicon can haul and tow anything Sport Max Tow can.

However, it's important to remember that there is a legal aspect to this also. From a legal standpoint, the door placard rating is king. So even if you stripped a Rubicon down completely and rid it of 400 lbs. of curb weight so that it would match the Sport, you'd still have a 400 lb. lower payload, and consequently a much lower practical tow rating if you carry a family in the truck with you.

I've been saying all along that guys who are buying Gladiator primarily as a truck to use for work should go with the Max Tow and I still think that's true.

And, Gladiator was tested using SAE J2807, so the tow ratings are not overblown and unrealistic. They are very realistic and safe, IF you follow the manual.

The main towing limitation of the gladiator, at least in max towing trims, is cooling - not weight. It will overheat if loaded more than the rated amount on a long hill in hot temps. The max tow got 4.10 gears and the exact tire size specified to keep the penta star in its sweet zone for efficiency so it wouldn't overheat. The Rubicon while heavier, also has larger tires that affect the tow rating. That's why it's gcwr is slightly lower than the sport s max tow - it'll overheat as it doesn't quite have the right gearing for maximum towing. There's a very good article on jalopnik that explains all of it - including why the diesel is rated less.

So even if you get a sport s max tow and 'Rubicon' it, you'll hurt it's ability to tow as soon as you bolt bigger tires on it. It'll still have the door placard saying it's safe, so you won't get sued, but if you take it in for an overheated engine under warranty and were towing 7600lbs with bigger tires, expect it to get rejected.

That said, in my (Rubi with tow package) experience it doesn't struggle at all with 5000lbs. I don't know that I'd push the full 7k regularly, but 5000-6000 is fine.

 

[futzin']

That said, in my (Rubi with tow package) experience it doesn't struggle at all with 5000lbs. I don't know that I'd push the full 7k regularly, but 5000-6000 is fine.

This is good to hear, thanks for the input. Can you remind me what you're towing? And I'd love to see a pic of your Grand Wagoneer. Man, I love those things! Amazing how often you still see them on TV . . .

 

[Bobzdar]

This is good to hear, thanks for the input. Can you remind me what you're towing? And I'd love to see a pic of your Grand Wagoneer. Man, I love those things! Amazing how often you still see them on TV . . .

Here's the gw towing my airstream. It has a harder time than the JT.

 

[futzin']

Beautiful combo!!

 

[Alaska-HWY JK]

The main towing limitation of the gladiator, at least in max towing trims, is cooling - not weight. It will overheat if loaded more than the rated amount on a long hill in hot temps. The max tow got 4.10 gears and the exact tire size specified to keep the penta star in its sweet zone for efficiency so it wouldn't overheat. The Rubicon while heavier, also has larger tires that affect the tow rating. That's why it's gcwr is slightly lower than the sport s max tow - it'll overheat as it doesn't quite have the right gearing for maximum towing. There's a very good article on jalopnik that explains all of it - including why the diesel is rated less.

So even if you get a sport s max tow and 'Rubicon' it, you'll hurt it's ability to tow as soon as you bolt bigger tires on it. It'll still have the door placard saying it's safe, so you won't get sued, but if you take it in for an overheated engine under warranty and were towing 7600lbs with bigger tires, expect it to get rejected.

That said, in my (Rubi with tow package) experience it doesn't struggle at all with 5000lbs. I don't know that I'd push the full 7k regularly, but 5000-6000 is fine.

What terrain are you towing on, what rpm’s and gear are you in? I know these Pentastars need to rev to make power but it seems a bit high. I guess the A/S is more slippery than a lot of trailers.

 

[HONCHO]

I bet if the old 360 had 8 speeds behind it instead of 3 it would do real good . lol

Here's the gw towing my airstream. It has a harder time than the JT.

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