Was the Driver a Member? [⚠️ Admin Warning: NO POLITICS]

[ShadowsPapa]

In the real world most people show obvious signs that they are dangerous long before the stabbing, shooting, or even swinging starts

Really? You believe that?

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[WestwallNF104A]

I'm definitely not trying to get within 21' of anyone armed with anything acting aggressively. If you find yourself there on the other hand you gotta do what you gotta do. At that point your life has already been bet for you. At that point if you're not the target backing away and drawing is probably the move. I just don't like the one size fits all 21' rule. Is there a child closer to the knife wielding psycho than I am? My child? At that point I'm probably getting closer not moving away. It's good for people to be aware of just how much distance an attacker can cover quickly, just as it's good advice to not try to draw from the drop but sometimes you're left without a choice. Better to die fighting than watch your kid take a knife in the neck, unless you're some people in this thread. Then you should non-violently persuade the crazy not to hurt anyone.

I agree to all points.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I'm definitely not trying to get within 21' of anyone armed with anything acting aggressively. If you find yourself there on the other hand you gotta do what you gotta do. At that point your life has already been bet for you. At that point if you're not the target backing away and drawing is probably the move. I just don't like the one size fits all 21' rule. Is there a child closer to the knife wielding psycho than I am? My child? At that point I'm probably getting closer not moving away. It's good for people to be aware of just how much distance an attacker can cover quickly, just as it's good advice to not try to draw from the drop but sometimes you're left without a choice. Better to die fighting than watch your kid take a knife in the neck, unless you're some people in this thread. Then you should non-violently persuade the crazy not to hurt anyone.

Can't argue with that - Anyone mess with my family, they'll find out fast just how much I'd do to protect them, regardless of consequences to me.

 

[Zachanadandy]

Really? You believe that?

For the most part absolutely. Everyone wants to do way too much talking and posturing and bs. How many pushing matches have you seen that may or may not eventually turn into punches thrown? I think just sudden, unprovoked stabbing, shooting, and even sucker punches are incredibly rare. Do they happen? Sure, but I think you've got better odds of getting struck by lightning. Not worth worrying about and not exactly something you can prepare for anyway so why bother?

 

[Lost1wing]

You know a simple question was asked at the beginning of this thread was he a member. Eleven pages later there has been comments ranging from religion to craziness to personal opinion and personal stories. Topic lost

Funny you say that. I clicked on the thread today just to see the direction it is headed.

 

[Lost1wing]

I miss the way this forum was 4 years ago.

BC (before covid). I wasn't on this forum four years ago, or was I. Anyhow, other forums that I look at are the same way. The chatter was mainly on topic and very little talk about society. The lock down messed with peoples heads.

 

[Lost1wing]

Really? You believe that?

I do. He said most people. I think he is talking about most people we (you) deal with on a daily basis. That, however, changes when you do a 2am walk in downtown Baltimore or Chicago.

 

[Janster]

People get used to TV and movies and shots knocking people backward or instantly stopping them. Someone on an adrenalin rush would require a good kill shot to stop.

I don't understand the idea that all crazies are going to be going wildly mad, waving a knife or acting like they are obviously after someone - it's not always the case.

Failure Drill: Two shots to the chest (kill zone) quickly and one to the head…..
Bill Drill: 6 shots to the kill zone as quickly as possible.

Practice, practice, practice….

My husband and I just had an Advanced Pistol class on Saturday with our little 9mm conceal carry pieces. A class with about 14 people, majority of them Law Enforcement with fullsize 9mm’s. We did well for being civilians and were complimented by them. Learned a lot and have lots of new ideas for training.

For the record…not only is it for self defense, but it’s for fun like any other hobby.

 

[Janster]

when you do a 2am walk in downtown Baltimore or Chicago.

Who does that?? Are you out of your fricken mind?? F’ that!!

 

[Lost1wing]

Who does that?? Are you out of your fricken mind?? F’ that!!

It happens! Look at that last brawl that made the news. Those people should have been sleeping instead of fighting.

 

[Alpine Warthog]

Without writing a whole sermon here...This is from several pages ago, but lets talk it out anyway...

When Jesus was backed into a corner he chose to die. (Then rise again, but still)

The fact that He was going to rise again was the whole point. This wasn't about self-defense, this was about sacrifice and the defeat of death. Now, hear me out,

Except, he previously said they had everything they needed. The transgressors are the ones with the sword.

Where in the Bible? Jesus hated the religious leaders.
You are placing your life over their life. Jesus went to the cross for sinners...

He hated the actions, not the people. There was more than one religious leader that came to Him and He did not reject them. He corrected them. Just like with the prostitute, He saved her and said to the crowd, free from sin? You can throw the first rock. He let her go, but He ALSO told her to stop doing what she had been doing.
As for rebuking Peter in the garden at his arrest, you're forgetting the rest of what Jesus said, “Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?” (Matthew 26:53–54). The whole point of being on Earth as a man was to give the Jews the opportunity to accept Him as savior and then He'd have been the Messiah they'd been looking for. But the entire time, He knew they wouldn't and He'd end up on the cross. He then became Messiah anyway.

I'll gladly place my families lives over anyone attacking them unprovoked......Punch, kick, stab, shoot, or anything you can, as violently as you can, to stop the monster. If your god has a problem with that he can burn in hell with him.

Exodus 22:2–3: "If a thief be found breaking in, and be smitten that he die, there shall be no bloodguiltiness for him."
Luke 11:21: "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are safe".
God even supports violently defending your possessions, but if you're scared and looking for an excuse to run away and leave the families safety in God's hands you can interpret it however you'd like.

God does not advocate for allowing bad things to happen to others, you're 100% correct.

..... If your God actually supports the interpretation you seem to he is Satan in my book.

He doesn't. And isn't. Self defense is completely within biblical standards. There are pacifists that use "turn the cheek" as justification for doing nothing. Holocaust anyone? It's simply not the way Christ conducted business.

 

[Janster]

It happens! Look at that last brawl that made the news. Those people should have been sleeping instead of fighting.

I know it happens.... I was being somewhat funny/sarcastic.

I don't think anyone on this forum would do that.

And even if you had to (for whatever reason).....I'd drive 3 miles (the LONG way) just to go 3 blocks in order to avoid certain areas. or call an uber just for 3 blocks.

 

[Alpine Warthog]

Again, not anti-gun. I'm just saying seems like there's a lot of people getting ants in there pants wanting to go out and "put someone in their place" by showing off their hardware. I'd rather just glide on down the road and make sure I'm not near these crazies when they decide they've been wronged.

Karens attempt to put people in their place without guns all the time without being armed. The lunacy there is beside the point. The people that carry guns and then brandish them are not usually legal carriers. But there are idiots everywhere. That doesn't stop you from being the guy who's gliding down the road staying away from crazies. You can't control others, and having your own weapon doesn't stop you from being that same guy gliding down the road.

I will concede (in the snarkiest troll way possible) that state to state this likely varies greatly when it comes to police. I realize many of you I'm debating with are in some of the far west states I'm unfamiliar with. In NJ, police have a duty to act and are usually held accountable by courts if they don't.

New Jersey police are sworn to "protect and serve" the public through their oaths and mission statements, BUT they generally do not have a specific legal duty to protect individuals from immediate harm. U.S. Supreme Court rulings have established that police lack this individual duty to protect, with some exceptions like their duty to intercede when fellow officers violate rights. This means that while officers are expected to respond to emergencies and take action, a specific individual cannot sue police for failing to protect them unless a special relationship or known danger creates an exception.
The "Public Duty Doctrine"
General Obligation vs. Individual Duty:
The concept of police having a "duty to protect" is often limited by the public duty doctrine. This means that while police have a general duty to the community as a whole to prevent crime and maintain order, this duty does not automatically extend to a specific individual.
Supreme Court Rulings:
In cases like DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services (1989) and Town of Castle Rock v. Gonzales (2005), the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that police do not have a constitutional obligation to protect individuals from private harm, even when aware of specific threats.
Exceptions to the Rule:
Special Relationship:
An exception to the public duty doctrine can occur when a "special relationship" exists between the police and an individual. This might include situations where:
An individual is taken into police custody.
An individual is being threatened or is under police protection.
Duty to Intercede:
Police officers have a legal duty to intercede when they witness a fellow officer using excessive force or violating a citizen's constitutional rights.
What This Means in New Jersey:
Oaths and Mission:
New Jersey police officers take oaths and have mission statements that commit them to protecting the public and upholding the law.
Action vs. Legal Duty:
This means they will routinely respond to and take action in dangerous situations. However, the failure to be present or prevent harm does not automatically create liability for the police, unless one of the specific exceptions applies.

 

[Gvsukids]

He hated the actions, not the people.

True.

God does not advocate for allowing bad things to happen to others, you're 100% correct.

What do you mean, when you have the Book of Job, plagues...?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I do. He said most people. I think he is talking about most people we (you) deal with on a daily basis. That, however, changes when you do a 2am walk in downtown Baltimore or Chicago.

Nice to believe, makes one feel safer, but it's not fact.
The outward signs aren't going to be recognized by "most people" - unless trained to look for such signs because they are subtle, staring, facial expressions, nervousness, body language.........
How many people can scan the dozen or 3 dozen around them and know that the person is about to go on a killing spree and isn't just a socially anxious person? I'm betting I show the signs every time I'm in a store! In fact, count on it.
But no, he's wrong in that people who do knife attacks are "obvious" to anyone but a trained or very very aware person (which lets out 99% of our society)

From training sites (research, did it for years as part of my job):

the element of surprise is a primary tactic for attackers, so these signs can appear only moments before the assault.

and from another -

Protection from a knife attack · Proximity and Speed: Knife attacks usually occur at close quarters, giving the attacker the advantage of being within striking ...

Sorry, they don't come at a person or group, knife visible, making a pending attack easy to see. In fact, just the opposite. Most get to within 8 to 10 feet and the only signs are what you might see in a person heading into a job interview.......... clothing adjustment, acting nervous, and so on.
The only real defense is training - what to look for, such as what LEOs typically get, so they can quickly tell a threat from an innocent.

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