Why do you like or dislike Auto start stop (ESS)?

[turd fergusen]

I have a manual and the only time ( once ) I observed it activating is when my wife drove it, we were talking to the neighbor. She put it in neutral and let the clutch out.

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[velogeek]

Skimming this thread has me very surprised at how many people just don't worry about their throwout bearing. Maybe it's just my habit because that was the one problem with Toyota's MTs but I always clutch out in neutral at a light. I mean why wear something you don't need to.

Now with the AT, it's just an annoyance. I'm rather quick with my foot from driving MTs most of my life and I was frequently getting over to the gas before it had settled after starting back up. Feels all kinds of weird and rough off the line if you don't give it a second.

I'm sure it's been mentioned but ESS is 100% one of those things that has been engineered to provide benefit in the government fuel economy and emissions testing and nothing else IMO. I have yet to see a real world test that showed any appreciable benefit and there's just no way it doesn't cause unnecessary wear.

 

[Chaimstein]

The only thing I dislike about it is having to pay for it. It doesn't bother me at all and it saves a little gas. I right foot brake when driving on-road and it always starts before I can get my foot on the gas pedal.

But, if it was optional how much would I pay to have it installed? Nothing. I wish we weren't forced to have it.

 

[Sespe]

Well, I've had an interesting update. I noticed recently it wasn't kicking in nearly as often. I scrolled through the dash menu screens and noticed "ESS disabled- vehicle charging". And it would remain this way for long trips, never reaching a full charge. My jeep never complains about low charge, never has problems starting, but seems to always need a charge.

I have one aftermarket power system addon, a switch pack for aux lights. I'm thinking of unhooking that for a bit and seeing if the vehicle charges faster.

 

[Jim_n_Tx]

I have driven Jeeps with manual transmissions since 1966, all without ESS. I have yet to need to replace a throwout bearing. I guess it makes the EPA happy to know that new Jeeps have this even if it is not utilized under normal driving conditions with my manual transmission. Just something else to malfunction.

 

[Gvsukids]

Well, I've had an interesting update. I noticed recently it wasn't kicking in nearly as often. I scrolled through the dash menu screens and noticed "ESS disabled- vehicle charging". And it would remain this way for long trips, never reaching a full charge. My jeep never complains about low charge, never has problems starting, but seems to always need a charge.

I noticed that same message on one I was test driving.

 

[Gatorized]

but I always clutch out in neutral at a light. I mean why wear something you don't need to.

I'm sure it's been mentioned but ESS is 100% one of those things that has been engineered to provide benefit in the government fuel economy and emissions testing and nothing else IMO. I have yet to see a real world test that showed any appreciable benefit and there's just no way it doesn't cause unnecessary wear.

What’s not to like- less wear on the bearing. Saves gas, less pollution.

The only thing I dislike about it is having to pay for it. It doesn't bother me at all and it saves a little gas. I right foot brake when driving on-road and it always starts before I can get my foot on the gas pedal.

But, if it was optional how much would I pay to have it installed? Nothing. I wish we weren't forced to have it.

I Consider it the free - no cost option. Cheap at twice the price!

 

[davetha]

You can always disable it with a Tazer if you don't like it. I don't mind all that much.

 

[turd fergusen]

I was taught never take the vehicle out of gear. So I have no issues with the ASS I will never use it, My wife accidentally used it once.

 

[NorthEast]

It was a bit odd at first but now it's a non-issue for me. If I'm in a situation where I think it could get annoying, I just press the button to disable it.

 

[velogeek]

What’s not to like- less wear on the bearing. Saves gas, less pollution

Having spent many years in the industry and knowing a few mechanical engineers with insight, it's pretty much a disinformation campaign that benefits the OEMs. It's been pushed by manufacturers through industry media because it helps them meet their targets for emissions and economy but it annoys most people - thus they need to generate acceptance and buy-in. It's why finding details other than It's so simple! and It works instantly! are hard to find.

FCA estimates their ESS system reduces CO2 by up to 2-3%. For FCA, that's massive. For you, it's much easier to just buy a smaller vehicle and have an exponentially larger impact. The problem is the up to qualifier... ESS is designed not to save you money but to help FCA in testing so the program is tailored specifically to those tests. You can turn it off because it annoys people but by having it start on ever startup, they check their emissions and fuel economy box because that is the start up and drive configuration.

Real world fuel savings are debatable just like the freeway rating is debatable. The test is not real world conditions, it's highly controlled for comparison sake and so each manufacturer is on the same ground with regulations. Either way, idle fuel losses are a rounding error for everyone not in constant traffic and that's literally the hardest scenario for your engine if you leave ESS engaged - you aren't idling long enough to generate real savings and your engine is restarting multiple times per minute.

Wear is definitely not debatable. ESS engines have specific designs and materials to tolerate the ESS process. That's all you really need to know - if ESS would damage a traditional engine, how can it possibly cause less wear than simply idling?

Leave it on if you want but for me, a Tazer was one of the first mods I installed so I don't have to worry about pushing the button.

 

[Gatorized]

Real world fuel savings are debatable just like the freeway rating is debatable. The test is not real world conditions, it's highly controlled for comparison sake and so each manufacturer is on the same ground with regulations. Either way, idle fuel losses are a rounding error for everyone not in constant traffic and that's literally the hardest scenario for your engine if you leave ESS engaged - you aren't idling long enough to generate real savings and your engine is restarting multiple times per minute.

Do your own real world testing... drive in city traffic for a week without ESS and a week with it.
Most will have moved on to some other vehicle long before the longevity of the power train and ESS system will ever be determined.

 

[DreamedofaJeepSomeday]

Most will have moved on to some other vehicle long before the longevity of the power train and ESS system will ever be determined.

Most, yes. All, no. I am currently driving a 2004 Dakota, that I purchased new, right now 341,000 miles. I expect to keep my Gladiator, once I get it, at least the same length of time. Maybe longer.

 

[obrianmcc]

I don't mind the system overall .... what does annoy me is the inconsistency in which it activates. I find it shutting down right at the moment I stop at a stop sign and for some reason when I pull into my garage it wants to shut down before I can get it into park. They need to update the system with a 5-10 sec delay. That would mostly resolves my dislikes.

 

[Cletus Bleeker]

Skimming this thread has me very surprised at how many people just don't worry about their throwout bearing. Maybe it's just my habit because that was the one problem with Toyota's MTs but I always clutch out in neutral at a light. I mean why wear something you don't need to.

Now with the AT, it's just an annoyance. I'm rather quick with my foot from driving MTs most of my life and I was frequently getting over to the gas before it had settled after starting back up. Feels all kinds of weird and rough off the line if you don't give it a second.

I'm sure it's been mentioned but ESS is 100% one of those things that has been engineered to provide benefit in the government fuel economy and emissions testing and nothing else IMO. I have yet to see a real world test that showed any appreciable benefit and there's just no way it doesn't cause unnecessary wear.

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