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Hmm, this is an interesting solution. No More Dry Starts

Minty JL

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I had one and took it out.

I could not get the thing to stop leaking
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LouisvEarlleJT

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All I know is, I dry started our old 2017 Grand Cherokee for 285,000 miles while changing the oil every 10k and not a mile sooner, but often 1000-1500 later and it's still fine today.

So it's a pass from me.
Yeah, I think there is a large market for anyone willing to make car parts for things that sound like problems but really aren’t. Rake that cash in.

Put this right up there with the folks preaching about catch-cans on their N/A nearly stock Jeeps.
 

willys 41

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Yeah, I think there is a large market for anyone willing to make car parts for things that sound like problems but really aren’t. Rake that cash in.

Put this right up there with the folks preaching about catch-cans on their N/A nearly stock Jeeps.
Than I assume that all modification or improvements to all cars / trucks / jeeps is a wast of time and not necessary. I assume that the engineers got it all right the fist time like the Boeing 737.
It is nice to live in a world that every thing is perfect.
 

ShadowsPapa

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We've owned 5 Pentastar 3.6 2nd gen (PUG) equipped Jeeps.
None have ever had any "rattle" at start-up.


revving while in park at those RPMs. Does anyone know at what RPM the shift from low lift to high lift occurs? I assumed it was at or close to the ~2800 RPM mark where the oil pump kicks into the 2nd stage. The rattle does reduce in amplitude after a mile or two, so wondering if that’s the lash adjusters “pressurizing”, but that seems like a long damn time if so.
Properly operating lash adjusters, like old-school lifters, should self-adjust after just 1 or 2 "cycles", meaning 2 to 4 revolutions of the crankshaft. At 3,000 rpm, that's 50 revolutions every second - it should be less than 1 second to self-adjust.

Jeep Gladiator Hmm, this is an interesting solution. No More Dry Starts 1723313405272-nc


If you change oil viscosity by much you can make this a lot worse. you can also make the transition between valve lift stages rattle because the oil isn't flowing fast enough. Flow rate matters with these. There's a high volume pump for a reason.

Jeep Gladiator Hmm, this is an interesting solution. No More Dry Starts 1723313148925-7n


When you start these engines, the oil pump is in high volume mode - oil pressure builds FAST. It jumps up to about 70 psi within a couple of seconds, then drops back to low volume mode. It does this to fill everything near instantly upon startup (cold or hot start)

Running heavy oil and cold temps may make the owner/driver feel good, but really does the engine no favors (and so far no one has any proof it's helping anything but make them feel better.

Than I assume that all modification or improvements to all cars / trucks / jeeps is a wast of time and not necessary. I assume that the engineers got it all right the fist time like the Boeing 737.
It is nice to live in a world that every thing is perfect.
Oh, so that's what he was saying - everything is perfect and ALL mods are totally unnecessary.
I took if that most of the time, they are simply owner preferred changes,, and often a placebo or feel good, while some are actually improvements.
But if he was saying ALL are unnecessary because everything is perfect, that's different.
Seems that Boeing thing keeps being brought up. How about a new one?
 

WK2JT

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We've owned 5 Pentastar 3.6 2nd gen (PUG) equipped Jeeps.
None have ever had any "rattle" at start-up.




Properly operating lash adjusters, like old-school lifters, should self-adjust after just 1 or 2 "cycles", meaning 2 to 4 revolutions of the crankshaft. At 3,000 rpm, that's 50 revolutions every second - it should be less than 1 second to self-adjust.

1723313405272-nc.png


If you change oil viscosity by much you can make this a lot worse. you can also make the transition between valve lift stages rattle because the oil isn't flowing fast enough. Flow rate matters with these. There's a high volume pump for a reason.

1723313148925-7n.png


When you start these engines, the oil pump is in high volume mode - oil pressure builds FAST. It jumps up to about 70 psi within a couple of seconds, then drops back to low volume mode. It does this to fill everything near instantly upon startup (cold or hot start)

Running heavy oil and cold temps may make the owner/driver feel good, but really does the engine no favors (and so far no one has any proof it's helping anything but make them feel better.



Oh, so that's what he was saying - everything is perfect and ALL mods are totally unnecessary.
I took if that most of the time, they are simply owner preferred changes,, and often a placebo or feel good, while some are actually improvements.
But if he was saying ALL are unnecessary because everything is perfect, that's different.
Seems that Boeing thing keeps being brought up. How about a new one?
Yeah, at this point there’s not much I can do about the clatter at 2k RPM. It hasn’t seemed to get worse, so just going to turn up the radio. I put this one up there with my 1st to 2nd shift squeal that seems to be common with the ZF 8 speed. I’ve had 3 and all 3 have done it. Worst case, it’s replacing an expensive component.
 

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LouisvEarlleJT

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Than I assume that all modification or improvements to all cars / trucks / jeeps is a wast of time and not necessary. I assume that the engineers got it all right the fist time like the Boeing 737.
It is nice to live in a world that every thing is perfect.
Not what I said. But I could be clearer, so I’ll do that.

This modification preys on folks who are anxious about protecting arguably the most important part of their expensive purchase. Buzz words like dry-start get locked in and get folks worrying about it things that they don’t actually need to be worried about because they don’t exist.

There are modifications that are purely aesthetic, ones that are functional, and ones that are snake oil.

I’d argue this falls into the third category. The first two are fun and what this whole thing is all about.
 

willys 41

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Not what I said. But I could be clearer, so I’ll do that.

This modification preys on folks who are anxious about protecting arguably the most important part of their expensive purchase. Buzz words like dry-start get locked in and get folks worrying about it things that they don’t actually need to be worried about because they don’t exist.

There are modifications that are purely aesthetic, ones that are functional, and ones that are snake oil.

I’d argue this falls into the third category. The first two are fun and what this whole thing is all about.
Simple test.
Let your jeep set over night and remove the oil filter.
You will find NO oil in the filter housing and the filter doesn't even have oil dripping from it.
ALL the oil has drained out of the filter and oil cooler housing back to the pan.
All that air in the filter housing now has to be pushed though oil galleys.
The Baxter set up has two anti drain back valves. One in the Baxter and one in the screw on filter.
The filter company's put anti drain valving in there filter for this very reason.


Jeep Gladiator Hmm, this is an interesting solution. No More Dry Starts pur
 

WK2JT

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I’m aware. On the surface this seems like an awful thing. But it’s not.

If you think it’s worth your money then go for it.
I think this one falls somewhere in the middle. Are there millions of pentastars on the road with the OEM filter and driving hundreds of thousand miles… of course. Is the Baxter system snake oil… not by the definition. It likely provides a bit more start up protection, but referring back to point one it’s likely not necessary. Point 3 though is my warm fuzz feeling not hearing a coffee can full of nuts and bolts falling down a staircase every time I start it up now. I swear my engine is happier and says thank you to me every time I start it now.
 

willys 41

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I think this one falls somewhere in the middle. Are there millions of pentastars on the road with the OEM filter and driving hundreds of thousand miles… of course. Is the Baxter system snake oil… not by the definition. It likely provides a bit more start up protection, but referring back to point one it’s likely not necessary. Point 3 though is my warm fuzz feeling not hearing a coffee can full of nuts and bolts falling down a staircase every time I start it up now. I swear my engine is happier and says thank you to me every time I start it now.
I agree. No more rattle rattle on both my Wranglers.
And as far as the cost. Its a drop in the bucket compared to the 30to 40k in mods I have done to my Willys.
 

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Mad Mac

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Back in the day
when shade tree mechanics changed their own oil
it was customary for some
to fill the new oil filter before screwing it on
and crank the engine with the coil disconnected
to prime the engine with oil before starting.
For you youngsters out there, a coil... never mind.

My 1995 Nissan Hardbody pickup
would clatter like a son of a gun on startup
until I drove about a block.
It was my habit to park "tactically"
with my nose pointed down the steep driveway
for a fast getaway.

Then I noticed if I pulled in
and parked like a normal person
pointed up the driveway
it didn't clatter.

That's when I learned
that the overhead valve cam valley oil
drained back into the oil pan
through a drain hole in the front of the valley
so that it would not run dry under hard acceleration.
For you youngsters out there,
before overhead cams... never mind.

When I parked pointed downhill
the oil would drain out of the cam valley overnight
causing the clattering dry start in the morning.
If I parked pointed uphill, no clattering.
From then on, I parked pointed uphill.

This brings me to my question.
Are those of you experiencing clattering on starting
parked pointed downhill?
 

Charles 236

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Back in the day
when shade tree mechanics changed their own oil
it was customary for some
to fill the new oil filter before screwing it on
and crank the engine with the coil disconnected
to prime the engine with oil before starting.
For you youngsters out there, a coil... never mind.

My 1995 Nissan Hardbody pickup
would clatter like a son of a gun on startup
until I drove about a block.
It was my habit to park "tactically"
with my nose pointed down the steep driveway
for a fast getaway.

Then I noticed if I pulled in
and parked like a normal person
pointed up the driveway
it didn't clatter.

That's when I learned
that the overhead valve cam valley oil
drained back into the oil pan
through a drain hole in the front of the valley
so that it would not run dry under hard acceleration.
For you youngsters out there,
before overhead cams... never mind.

When I parked pointed downhill
the oil would drain out of the cam valley overnight
causing the clattering dry start in the morning.
If I parked pointed uphill, no clattering.
From then on, I parked pointed uphill.

This brings me to my question.
Are those of you experiencing clattering on starting
parked pointed downhill?
On some old engines, the oil drained from the end(s) of the head(s). Best example I can think of off the top of my head is the 426 Hemi. When Chrysler designed the heads, and adapted the 426 wedge block to use them, they put the oil drains at the front and rear ends of the heads and block.

The Pentastar engine has the oil drains on the outboard sides of the heads. There is no problem with oil being trapped in the heads, there is plenty of drainage for the oil. In these engines, parking uphill or downhill doesn't affect oil retention in the heads.

As for startup noises, I have owned three Pentastar engines, two "Classic" Pentastars and the upgraded Pentastar in my JT. I don't consider any Pentastar engines I have owned to be excessively noisy on startup. Also, I have worked on hundreds more since the Pentastar first came out. I do find that there is more valve train "noise" in the upgrade engines than the "Classic" Pentastar, but I attribute it to the Variable Valve Lift rocker arm design.
 

629

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I know this is reviving a several month old thread however it seems more appropriate than starting a new one based on the discussion here.

Looking at a cutaway of the current 3.6 it appears it already has an anti drain back valve under the oil filter? Am in incorrect here? I guess I’m saying is this even needed for a latest gen 3.6, I see that the reviews are 50% 50%…?

I just purchased my first Jeep new enough to not have an 258, 304, 4.0 6 or 2.5 4 (2023 Gladiator) I’m researching the engine and obviously oil changes etc. I came across the oil filter draining discussion.

I found the Baxter kit talk. I do all my own work on my vehicles (I have a bunch). Just trying to make this one last as it’s really nice.
 

willys 41

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I know this is reviving a several month old thread however it seems more appropriate than starting a new one based on the discussion here.

Looking at a cutaway of the current 3.6 it appears it already has an anti drain back valve under the oil filter? Am in incorrect here? I guess I’m saying is this even needed for a latest gen 3.6, I see that the reviews are 50% 50%…?

I just purchased my first Jeep new enough to not have an 258, 304, 4.0 6 or 2.5 4 (2023 Gladiator) I’m researching the engine and obviously oil changes etc. I came across the oil filter draining discussion.

I found the Baxter kit talk. I do all my own work on my vehicles (I have a bunch). Just trying to make this one last as it’s really nice.
What I found on my first oil change surprised me.
I left the jeep over night and drained the oil the next morning.
When I removed the filter cap and pulled the filter out there was NO oil in the housing and no oil even dripping off the filter. I said to my self. This is not right.
That's when I started looking for a solution and came across the Baxter.
A year later and after talking to my local 4x4 shop how has installed dozens I installed one on my Rubicon. NO MORE BONE CHILLING RATTLE RATTLE ON COLD STARTS.
I now have one on both my jeeps and wish I had done it sooner.
Do the test. Let it sit over night and remove the filter and you will find no oil in the housing.
All the oil from the housing and oil cooler has drained back to the pan.
 

sharpsicle

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I know this is reviving a several month old thread however it seems more appropriate than starting a new one based on the discussion here.

Looking at a cutaway of the current 3.6 it appears it already has an anti drain back valve under the oil filter? Am in incorrect here? I guess I’m saying is this even needed for a latest gen 3.6, I see that the reviews are 50% 50%…?

I just purchased my first Jeep new enough to not have an 258, 304, 4.0 6 or 2.5 4 (2023 Gladiator) I’m researching the engine and obviously oil changes etc. I came across the oil filter draining discussion.

I found the Baxter kit talk. I do all my own work on my vehicles (I have a bunch). Just trying to make this one last as it’s really nice.
No, it's not really an issue on these engines. It really is a solution in search of a problem.

Sometimes kits like this will help mask another issue that's present though, but if you have a healthy engine it really isn't needed.
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