Recall: Manual Transmission / Clutch Recall for 2020-2021 Jeep Gladiator (Notice: 21V-028)

[jimbom]

Yes all of us want full details on exactly what this fix does. Having the full picture may put some of our worries and anger at ease. As of now many of us feel we are being giving an inferior fix. Also im concerned that even if my clutch passes the test it doesnt mean wear was not accellerated during the time before the recall which will later lead to premature clutch failure. Without the recall replacing our clutch we should be given and extended mileage warranty of maybe 80,000 miles. If a clutch can not make it that many miles then it should not have ever been used in the vehicle in the first place.

I'm pretty sure the standard warranty excludes any clutch wear (and brake wear, btw.) Therefore increasing it to 80,000 miles wouldn't really help matters.

EDIT: Looked up clutch in the Warranty:

The Basic Limited Warranty lasts for 36months from the date it begins or for 36,000miles on the odometer, whichever occurs first. But the following items are covered only for 12months or for 12,000miles on the odometer, whichever occurs first:
•Brakes (rotors, pads, linings, and drums)
•Bulbs
•Clutch Discs or Modular Clutch Assembly (if equipped)
•Wheel Alignment
•Wheel Balancing
•Windshield and Rear Window
•Wiper Blades

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[2004blackwrx]

Yes im aware the current warranty is not on the clutch. If Jeep is telling us the clutch is not an issue then prove it to us by giving us a warranty that gives us confidense it will last as long a we expect it too. Honestly 80,000 miles isnt long for a clutch. Everytime i drive i think how long will this clutch last before it needs replacement. This isnt something I should be stressing about.

 

[hawk14414]

Yes im aware the current warranty is not on the clutch. If Jeep is telling us the clutch is not an issue then prove it to us by giving us a warranty that gives us confidense it will last as long a we expect it too. Honestly 80,000 miles isnt long for a clutch. Everytime i drive i think how long will this clutch last before it needs replacement. This isnt something I should be stressing about.

I am fairly sure that jeep has admitted to this being a design flaw. If it left the factory with a design flaw, then I don't think the vehicle warranty applies - particularly when it has been characterized as a safety issue.

I'm not looking for a new clutch (yet).....I just simply want an explanation of what the software is doing.....how it determines that overheating is occurring.....and then what it will do when it makes that determination. I think Jeep owes us a reasonable explanation.

 

[2004blackwrx]

I am fairly sure that jeep has admitted to this being a design flaw. If it left the factory with a design flaw, then I don't think the vehicle warranty applies - particularly when it has been characterized as a safety issue.

I'm not looking for a new clutch (yet).....I just simply want an explanation of what the software is doing.....how it determines that overheating is occurring.....and then what it will do when it makes that determination. I think Jeep owes us a reasonable explanation.

I think more then an explanation is owed. An explanation now would be very helpful though. I am a bit sensitive to clutch issues. My parents had a 2004 xterra that clutch only lasted 40,000 miles and then needed replaced again after another 40,000 miles. I dont want to deal with a car that needs constant costly repairs. In the end if my clutch last at least 90,000 miles which is the worse I ever got and it was on a awd car I launched that had higher horse power then stock and that I drove hard then I would be happy. I just dont like the stress of not knowing whether Jeep gave us a quality clutch or not.

 

[DanW]

I think more then an explanation is owed. An explanation now would be very helpful though. I am a bit sensitive to clutch issues. My parents had a 2004 xterra that clutch only lasted 40,000 miles and then needed replaced again after another 40,000 miles. I dont want to deal with a car that needs constant costly repairs. In the end if my clutch last at least 90,000 miles which is the worse I ever got and it was on a awd car I launched that had higher horse power then stock and that I drove hard then I would be happy. I just dont like the stress of not knowing whether Jeep gave us a quality clutch or not.

Well, I don't think you need to worry about 40k if it is in good working order. I'm at 46k with no issues. I've driven it very hard, off-road frequently (including 2 trips to Moab) and I tow a boat all summer. It feels the same as it did new, which is great.

If it wears out in 40k, then there is a problem or someone doesn't know how to properly drive it.

The closest you will get to an explanation is through public FCA and NHTSA documents. And be careful with NHTSA. They are often mistaken or miscommunicate. They are bureaucrats who write them. I seriously doubt they are engineers. If they are, then they are not alwasy competent.

The idea that they were just going to reduce power af the engine and call it a day came straight from an NHTSA document where the author left out the details, such as that the power reduction would only occur when enough slip was detected to calculate high temps in the clutch. Not exactly a small detail they left out there, which led to widespread panic. You had to find another NHTSA document to see there was more to it, and then finally communication from FCA that gave the most important details of how it would work.

 

[hawk14414]

The FCA documentation that is publicly distributed isn't written by engineers either. It's written by corporate communications personnel - likely assisted by engineering, and for certain it is reviewed and edited by their law department. By the time it gets to us, it is hardly a technical explanation - it's a cover your butt document. I've read through the recalls and the FCA documentation, and I can absolutely find commentary about reducing torque when an overheat condition is sensed. What I can't find and would love to see is more info around how that occurs, and for how long the reduced torque condition persists? Is it a limp mode or a slight reduction in torque? Does it need to be cleared, as in it throws a code, or does it simply run in that condition until the clutch temp drops, and then reverts to normal?

A modest amount of info from Jeep regarding this would be helpful to many of us.

@JeepCares - are you listening???

 

[DanW]

The FCA documentation that is publicly distributed isn't written by engineers either. It's written by corporate communications personnel - likely assisted by engineering, and for certain it is reviewed and edited by their law department. By the time it gets to us, it is hardly a technical explanation - it's a cover your butt document. I've read through the recalls and the FCA documentation, and I can absolutely find commentary about reducing torque when an overheat condition is sensed. What I can't find and would love to see is more info around how that occurs, and for how long the reduced torque condition persists? Is it a limp mode or a slight reduction in torque? Does it need to be cleared, as in it throws a code, or does it simply run in that condition until the clutch temp drops, and then reverts to normal?

A modest amount of info from Jeep regarding this would be helpful to many of us.

@JeepCares - are you listening???

So what part of the FCA documentation is inaccurate?

This is straight from a former FCA engineer who has friends still there in the powertrain department. It backs up what @JeepCares said on the JL forum in March.

The PCM program compares engine RPM to wheel speed. Slip is identified if there is a difference. The algorythm identifies the temperature of the clutch by how much slip is detected. When the temp gets to a certain point above normal, the PCM will trigger a limp mode that will retard power dramatically. It will give you a dash warning message when this happens, as well. When it determines that sufficient cooling has taken place, it will return the power level to normal. He made this very clear: If your transmission is operating normally, you'll never see the limp home mode. There is no power reduction when not in limp mode. Your engine will behave exactly as it would have before the update as long as excessive slip is not detected. And the temp that triggers limp home mode is well below the temp that would cause permanent damage to the pressure plate.

So it is an insurance policy, not a permanent reduction in power. And nobody who took delivery of a 2021 has reported seeing the limp home mode yet. The Y07 isn't out yet, so we'll see when folks like me start getting it, but I fully expect the only difference to be the little gear indicator in the center of the instrument cluster, which will be nice for those just learning to drive a manual.

 

[Deleted member 30519]

I'll wait until the next recall to get it done

 

[hawk14414]

That's good info, and I hope its the case. BTW, I did not say the FCA info was inaccurate, just that it is not highly technical and is rather vague regarding what the software does. And I specifically said "publicly distributed" documentation.......and by that I meant the recall notices as well as mailings I received. I don't consider commentary from an ex-FCA engineer to be public info nor necessarily a source of truth, and I'm not on the JL forums at all.....

I just wish Jeep would have been more transparent with the communications. But, having said all that - thanks for the info! That functionality makes some sense, although its still a band aid for the real problem. I think I'll wait on the recall for more real world experiences from owners....

 

[DanW]

That's good info, and I hope its the case. BTW, I did not say the FCA info was inaccurate, just that it is not highly technical and is rather vague regarding what the software does. And I specifically said "publicly distributed" documentation.......and by that I meant the recall notices as well as mailings I received. I don't consider commentary from an ex-FCA engineer to be public info nor necessarily a source of truth, and I'm not on the JL forums at all.....

I just wish Jeep would have been more transparent with the communications. But, having said all that - thanks for the info! That functionality makes some sense, although its still a band aid for the real problem. I think I'll wait on the recall for more real world experiences from owners....

I get it. But @JeepCares gave the same description as the engineer, either here or on the JL side. I do consider that official communication.

 

[RodRecket]

OK - I got the recall software flash done and all is cool. No change at all to the clutch feel (I didn't expect any but some in this forum seem to think there would be). The software upgrade includes a gear indicator - I made a short YT video showing what I mean.

BUT>>> - earlier tonight I was backing a trailer up my driveway (moderate upslope, 50ft long, weird approach curb to negotiate, small boy scout single axle utility trailer that was EMPTY - probably no more than 1,000LBS - but the trailer is short and the JT is long...) and I got a warning note about my clutch being hot. I am admittedly, not a total back up with a trailer STUD like all of you no doubt. I backed up slowly and feathered the clutch in order to position it perfectly. I definitely smelled something, and I ended up having to back up twice to get it just right. Anyway - below is the message I got. Didn't affect engine power. I turned off my JT to unhitch the trailer and then restarted about 10 mins later - no further warnings or messages and no perceptible change in driving behavior. SO - I'm thinking that the JT's central command noticed that I was heating up the clutch and told me to take it easy. Frankly if that is all the software upgrade does then I'm totally fine with it. Basically its a dummy light for dummies like me.

Thanks for posting up. Based on your experience and others I've read I'm not worried about the update. I actually like the idea of having the gear indicator, kinda neat.

As others have posted most reverse towing I do I usually end up in 4 lo so I dont have to feather the clutch so much.

 

[hawk14414]

Agreed, semi official although I don't recall seeing it here. Also - why can't my dealer give me a better explanation than "it gives you a gear read out, and reduces torque in certain situations"? Perhaps just a lousy dealer....but I don't think I should have to dig through reams of forum posts to find out what a safety recall is going to do..

 

[Choatecav]

Well, I don't think you need to worry about 40k if it is in good working order. I'm at 46k with no issues. I've driven it very hard, off-road frequently (including 2 trips to Moab) and I tow a boat all summer. It feels the same as it did new, which is great.

If it wears out in 40k, then there is a problem or someone doesn't know how to properly drive it.

The closest you will get to an explanation is through public FCA and NHTSA documents. And be careful with NHTSA. They are often mistaken or miscommunicate. They are bureaucrats who write them. I seriously doubt they are engineers. If they are, then they are not always competent.

Folks, I am not trying to make a "silk purse from a sow's ear" but there is a lot of truth in what Dan W. says above. I'm not sure if it is a generational thing or what, but in my job I'm in the car with other drivers a lot. Mostly automatics, but some are MT's and it astounds me the number of people driving in America today who do not know how to properly handle a clutch. Some don't grasp the selection of the proper gear based on the speed, momentum and terrain......., some continuously upshift and downshift almost like a nervous twitch........, many never fully engage the clutch until they are at full highway speeds........., and then of course, there are those who "ride the clutch" and use it like a dead pedal or foot rest.
This Gladiator MT may not be perfect, but then again, our operation of same may leave a bit to be desired.
Just sayin'................

 

[DanW]

Agreed, semi official although I don't recall seeing it here. Also - why can't my dealer give me a better explanation than "it gives you a gear read out, and reduces torque in certain situations"? Perhaps just a lousy dealer....but I don't think I should have to dig through reams of forum posts to find out what a safety recall is going to do..

I wouldn't expect folks who still think the 3.6 takes 6 quarts to offer much on this fix, Lol. But yeah, you'd think working every day with them they'd know more about it than we do. Lol.

 

[JeepCares]

Rob - can you comment on how that torque reduction occurs, and more importantly how long it occurs for? Will it go into a "limp mode" meaning severely reduced torque and mobility? And how does that get cleared? Simply falling back under a temperature threshhold, or something different? Some details from Jeep on exactly what the software does when it detects an overheat situation would be super helpful. I feel like Jeep is holding back on us regarding information on how this "fix" actually operates, and as a result, I am holding off having the flash done.

Hi,
If the temperature threshold is reached or exceeded, the launch RPM is limited. The engine output torque is initially reduced slightly only when the threshold is met. If the clutch temperature continues to rise, the software follows a table to determine how much to reduce the engine output torque. Clutch temperature is calculated based on clutch slippage and time. Hope this information help and for more technical information please speak to your dealer.

Rob
Jeep Cares

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