Beware 3.6 Penstar

[ShadowsPapa]

Not familiar with that config. Makes me wonder if it needs a higher zinc ppm oil?

Please not the zinc stuff again. That went out with the 1990s. It's also been proven that too much zddp actually does damage.
Modern formulations have found ways to protect without the zinc of the past.
I don't even run high zddp oils in my own flat tappet cars with performance cams and better springs. I run quality oil. I don't look for high zddp. It's just not needed today. (unless you are building extremes for the track)

These aren't the only non-roller engines out there - and others are doing fine on modern oils.

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[shawnebell]

my jeep is greatly depreciated (carfax will reflect engine work)

Naah.

It'll show as warranty / recall work. Won't depreciate - much less "greatly depreciate" your Jeep. What it WILL show is the owner took care of the Jeep, brought it in for work in a timely manner, and maintained the Jeep well. It'll give the next owner piece of mind knowing that the lifter issue has been addressed at a dealership.

I've purchased a few 2012 Wranglers with the 3.6 that had the casting sand issue which was fixed at the dealership (and showed up on Carfax). I felt WAY more comfortable picking up a Wrangler with that notation than I did picking up one that didn't have the recall completed. Hard pass on the Jeeps that didn't show the owner had addressed recalls!

 

[XJFanatic]

There isn't.

In fact, even in that range there's been many that have not failed.
There's nothing to look up No one has tracked VINs. It's more of a pattern than specifics .

27,000 miles on the 2020 I traded in, no so much as a mild tick.

That’s what I have always figured.

FWIW mine is a fairly early MY20 build (can’t remember the month but it’s 2019). 33k miles and runs just dandy. Is it louder than a car yep, is it quieter than a 4.0l yep, but it’s nothing I would consider abnormal.

 

[XJFanatic]

Naah.

It'll show as warranty / recall work. Won't depreciate - much less "greatly depreciate" your Jeep. What it WILL show is the owner took care of the Jeep, brought it in for work in a timely manner, and maintained the Jeep well. It'll give the next owner piece of mind knowing that the lifter issue has been addressed at a dealership.

I've purchased a few 2012 Wranglers with the 3.6 that had the casting sand issue which was fixed at the dealership (and showed up on Carfax). I felt WAY more comfortable picking up a Wrangler with that notation than I did picking up one that didn't have the recall completed. Hard pass on the Jeeps that didn't show the owner had addressed recalls!

Again if carfax even shows. I have had a few vehicles that clearly had doors replaced from an accident at some point with clean reports.

My JT has had the steering TSB done and the only stuff on the carfax before I got it were routine oils changes.

 

[BajaTJ]

Please not the zinc stuff again. That went out with the 1990s. It's also been proven that too much zddp actually does damage.
Modern formulations have found ways to protect without the zinc of the past.
I don't even run high zddp oils in my own flat tappet cars with performance cams and better springs. I run quality oil. I don't look for high zddp. It's just not needed today. (unless you are building extremes for the track)

These aren't the only non-roller engines out there - and others are doing fine on modern oils.

Again? Didn’t realize zinc had gone ‘out of style’. ???. Porsche recommends I run higher zinc in my 911SC. I‘ll go with their recommendation over an anti zinc’er though. ? I’ll have to read up on this newer 3.6 valve train though to fully understand the differences.

 

[Hootbro]

I've purchased a few 2012 Wranglers with the 3.6 that had the casting sand issue which was fixed at the dealership (and showed up on Carfax). I felt WAY more comfortable picking up a Wrangler with that notation than I did picking up one that didn't have the recall completed. Hard pass on the Jeeps that didn't show the owner had addressed recalls!

I thought the early head issue was an extended warranty campaign and not a true recall? FCA played the attrition game rather than address all Pentastars of that vintage. There was a high failure rate but the lions share would have no issue. Still was a gamble buying one if there was no record of the head being replaced.

 

[Iamstubb]

Overall, I think even the old pentastar is a pretty good motor. My 2012 has 260k plus miles and still getting sticker mileage. Sorry you have an issue. I've got a 2021 Charger and 2021 JT, both seem to be doing quite well, but at barely 15k on each, they are barely broken in.

 

[Flying J]

I’ve owned numerous Jeeps - including 392 and diesel. My latest purchase was a brand new 2021 Mojave and I foolishly opted for the 3.6 motor due to it’s length of production, assuming all the bugs were worked out long ago. At 3,000 miles after the first oil change, the oft-reported “ticking” noise began due to faulty lifters. At 10,000 miles it sounded like a diesel! I took it back to the local Jeep dealer. Had to make an appointment and bring it back 10 days later. Now 2 weeks later, they still have not had the time to look at it, much less work on it, nor to order parts. Granted, they did give me a loaner, but after spending $80,000 (with considerable modifications), my jeep is greatly depreciated (carfax will reflect engine work), can’t be driven, and who knows when I will get it back? The lesson to all this is: read about the class action lawsuit against Jeep for defective 3.6 engines with lifter design flaws before making my mistake!

63,000 miles on my 2020 Overland and 0 problems.

 

[Jeeperjamie]

Right at 60,000 miles on mine and have had no issues. Sure some have had issues but all makes and models of any vehicle made have issues, nothing is bulletproof. The amount that are reliable is far greater than the ones that have issues. It sucks I know but sounds like they are gonna fix it.

 

[jwolfejt]

Right at 60,000 miles on mine and have had no issues. Sure some have had issues but all makes and models of any vehicle made have issues, nothing is bulletproof. The amount that are reliable is far greater than the ones that have issues. It sucks I know but sounds like they are gonna fix it.

Thats where I was trying to get at - so long as they make it right - thats what matters. I've had cars that were supposed to be bulletproof reliable - but ended up having cracked heads, head gasket issues etc (mainly alot of 3VZE powered Pickups/4runners in the past).

 

[jeep4x4bp]

I know everyone that I personally know that has had to have anything from long blocks to the top end replaced under warranty that they're work never showed up on a carfax. I honestly believe all vehicles now days have lifters issues. The majority attests to the start/stop and eco modes. Be glad you didn’t buy a Chevy or a ford right now, they are having far more problems with the full size trucks motors.

 

[dajudge]

By 2019 they had already built more than 10 million of these engines. It is is probably 15 now. If they were really junk there would be a lot more people having issues. There are some issues that people come across, nothing is perfect, but it is a pretty small number compared to how many they build. Most of the issues people have seem to stem from bad dealers, not the engine.

 

[Eric Kern]

I have 2020 Gladiator Rubicon with over 50k in mods including Supercharger with no issues.

Same, 20 LE Rubi, 65k, definitely a few miscellaneous issues with various bullshit components but as far as engine, pretty solid

 

[ShadowsPapa]

2011 the Pentastar 3.6 went into Grand Cherokee. We've owned several since then - 0 issues. There are hundreds of Grand Cherokee WK platform around here. 2012 it went into Wrangler......... so, 11 years in the Grand Cherokee, 10 years in Wrangler.............. how many vehicles is that, plus Charger, Ram, you name it.
People call it a "minivan engine" and yet among the first things it went into were Jeeps.



This is part of an article debunking the need for high zinc in oil - some still talk zinc to make people feel better, or because they haven't caught up. And for true high performance with flat tappet engines and high spring pressures, a certain amount is fine - to break things in. But too much is actually damaging.

Before debunking this myth, we need to look at the history of ZDP usage. For over 60 years, ZDP has been used as an additive in engine oils to provide wear protection and oxidation stability.

ZDP was first added to engine oil to control copper/lead bearing corrosion. Oils with a phosphorus level in the 0.03% range passed a corrosion test introduced in 1942.

In the mid-1950s, when the use of high-lift camshafts increased the potential for scuffing and wear, the phosphorus level contributed by ZDP was increased to the 0.08% range.

In addition, the industry developed a battery of oil tests (called sequences), two of which were valve-train scuffing and wear tests.

A higher level of ZDP was good for flat-tappet valve-train scuffing and wear, but it turned out that more was not better. Although break-in scuffing was reduced by using more phosphorus, longer-term wear increased when phosphorus rose above 0.14%. And, at about 0.20% phosphorus, the ZDP started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling.

By the 1970s, increased antioxidancy was needed to protect the oil in high-load engines, which otherwise could thicken to a point where the engine could no longer pump it. Because ZDP was an inexpensive and effective antioxidant, it was used to place the phosphorus level in the 0.10% range.

 

[badtux]

Uhh, I would be concerned that it is consuming coolant... The coolant system should be closed loop, only limited number of places it can go...

I had that issue with my 2012 Pentastar. It turned out to be the original water pump. When the leak got bad enough to be seen and the water pump was replaced under warranty at 56,000 miles, the loss of coolant stopped. I later had to replace that OEM water pump at 112,000 miles. I replaced it with a NAPA part. Yeah, not impressed with the OEM water pump.

But yeah, if you're losing coolant something's wrong.

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