Factory Trailer Brake Controller releases ...EDIT: STILL WAITING

[ShadowsPapa]

Post #9 in this thread indicates it is made by Redarc for Mopar.

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/mopar-trailer-brake-controllers.36201/

I thought as much looking at the design........ just a hunch.
Still - how'd they get around the diode in the brake light wiring thing.......... maybe it's internal. Redarc said they didn't have a solution other than the harness with a diode and they said they still can't trigger the brake lights on the trailer if you manually activate the brakes.

Now, is there a user mode, or is it only proportional like their lower cost version??

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[Mr._Bill]

I thought as much looking at the design........ just a hunch.
Still - how'd they get around the diode in the brake light wiring thing.......... maybe it's internal. Redarc said they didn't have a solution other than the harness with a diode and they said they still can't trigger the brake lights on the trailer if you manually activate the brakes.

Now, is there a user mode, or is it only proportional like their lower cost version??

I'm pretty sure that is what has delayed the release for so long. Their agreement with Mopar to produce the unit likely keeps them from implementing the fix in their own products.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I'm pretty sure that is what has delayed the release for so long. Their agreement with Mopar to produce the unit likely keeps them from implementing the fix in their own products.

No other controller I've checked into can do the brake light thing.
and I bet there's no 'fix' for the feedback other than an internal diode.
I'll further bet that this controller can't trigger the brake lights if you push the button manually.
We'll have to wait for the first install to know for sure.
There's really not a fix Redarc could make for the feedback other than an internal diode - but then it might cause trouble with other vehicles........ so use the harness with it.

Use the Ram harness, and their controller works perfectly, no feedback.
Redarc, Curt, others I've checked into, can't trigger the lights without an external device in the rear plug.

Can't wait to plug this in and see if they've overcome anything.

 

[PDiddy]

To me after reading direction I see no reason to flash vehicle. It plugs into the same plug my REDARC does. My guess is its a REDARC inside a fancy MOPAR plastic package. Time will tell I guess. I ordered one just to see how it goes in.

Probably right about that.

 

[jwilson2899]

I thought as much looking at the design........ just a hunch.
Still - how'd they get around the diode in the brake light wiring thing.......... maybe it's internal. Redarc said they didn't have a solution other than the harness with a diode and they said they still can't trigger the brake lights on the trailer if you manually activate the brakes.

Now, is there a user mode, or is it only proportional like their lower cost version??

If you read the instructions I posted earlier, it says in there that the brake lights won’t come on when pressing the manual activation button, so I’m guessing it’s wired/done the same as their harness for the Tow Pro Elite. I also don’t see any mention of switching between the modes, so I’m guessing proportional only like most controllers.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

If you read the instructions I posted earlier, it says in there that the brake lights won’t come on when pressing the manual activation button, so I’m guessing it’s wired/done the same as their harness for the Tow Pro Elite. I also don’t see any mention of switching between the modes, so I’m guessing proportional only like most controllers.

Yup - exactly like Redarc's $136 controller.

My bet is that NO ONE has a controller that plugs in like this and can trigger the brake lights by manually hitting the trailer brakes. That would send power into that network that has other things looking at it.

I looked - will have to look again - all I saw was installation stuff........ ok, time to page back and take another gander.>

Edit - never mind, it was a png and not a pdf. Got it.

Edit again - gee, that sure looks a lot like certain Redarc text and style.........

 

[Mr._Bill]

Yup - exactly like Redarc's $136 controller.

My bet is that NO ONE has a controller that plugs in like this and can trigger the brake lights by manually hitting the trailer brakes. That would send power into that network that has other things looking at it.

I looked - will have to look again - all I saw was installation stuff........ ok, time to page back and take another gander.>

Edit - never mind, it was a png and not a pdf. Got it.

Edit again - gee, that sure looks a lot like certain Redarc text and style.........

I think the only way to fix the problem is to design one that interfaces with the network. They are possibly working on that and it will be a future model to replace the current one.

 

[tampahoosier]

Over on the Jeep Gladiator FB page there is a very well known jeep employee who tossed a reason out we might need/want to flash. He's not 100% sure but says there might be a screen added to the driver display between the gauges if you do a dash. Many of the other Jeeps and most of the newer Ram trucks have the controls visible on that screen. This was taken from his Ram truck, but its what he thinks might be added with a flash. Just to be clear he is NOT sure there is a flash, this one is just speculation.
I called two dealers yesterday and they both weren't even aware of a factory trailer brake controller.... pretty sure we won't be hearing a definitive yes/no from them any time soon!

 

[sarguy1941]

To add that screen there would need to be a harness to some sort of bus system. All the direction I have read show it plugging directly to the same plug that we plug all the aftermarket controllers to. I cannot see how the system would talk to the computer bus without another harness. Im sure as folks install we will know but im 99% sure it will not have any screen display with the unit shipping now. Even instructions dont mention any screen displays. This has been thrown around for a year now and this is more evidence its just a brake controller....

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Over on the Jeep Gladiator FB page there is a very well known jeep employee who tossed a reason out we might need/want to flash. He's not 100% sure but says there might be a screen added to the driver display between the gauges if you do a dash. Many of the other Jeeps and most of the newer Ram trucks have the controls visible on that screen. This was taken from his Ram truck, but its what he thinks might be added with a flash. Just to be clear he is NOT sure there is a flash, this one is just speculation.
I called two dealers yesterday and they both weren't even aware of a factory trailer brake controller.... pretty sure we won't be hearing a definitive yes/no from them any time soon!

Like I said - there are 4 connections, none of them would give control over the controller via the cluster settings, and none of those wires would read a controller.
Those are:
* Black wire - 12v power TO the brake controller. It's just plain battery (+) power, nothing special or fancy. This black wire provides the power for the controller to operate internally, and as the source of the power the controller sends back to the trailer brakes over the blue wire.

* White wire - Ground. - it simply goes to the JT chassis/ground/negative battery. Nothing would be read here to indicate anything. It simply grounds the electronics of the controller.

* Blue wire. That's output straight back to the trailer brakes. There's no hidden signal, it's to power electric trailer brakes, goes to the brake solenoid windings.

* Red wire. This goes to vehicle Brake lights circuit - the controller knows when you are applying truck brakes by reading this wire.

In an OLD legacy vehicle, it could supply brake lights for the system over the red wire if you pressed the controller button to manually apply brakes, but due to the sensitive nature of today's brake lighting circuit, there's a diode to prevent any such "feedback" into the vehicle brake light system. The CANbus reads power there to understand what's happening with the lights - is one out? Are they all working? Etc.
If the controller were to introduce power there, it could confuse the vehicle's smarts and cause weird things. So there's a diode either in the controller or the harness red wire to prevent this. This is why controllers say "we don't trigger the brake lights should you press the button to manually apply trailer brakes" - in your 95 F250, yeah, they would. In your 2020 JT - no.

I can't see how any of these would possibly tie into the CANBus to allow anything on the cluster - not with these simple, basic controllers. These are pretty basic, really - and appear to be exactly like the Redarc proportional controllers in all ways except appearance.

If I'm wrong - it's another learning experience for me. My goal is to learn at least one thing every single day (something important, not some new song or how a politician votes) - but in this case, I'd be quite surprised as the Mopar operating instructions read almost exactly like the Redarc instructions. Even the installation is roughly the same! The difference is the main box and how and where it's mounted. Otherwise, connections are nearly identical.
And - you can get the Redarc version for about $136. $219 if you want the dual-function with user mode.

 

[tampahoosier]

To add that screen there would need to be a harness to some sort of bus system. All the direction I have read show it plugging directly to the same plug that we plug all the aftermarket controllers to. I cannot see how the system would talk to the computer bus without another harness. Im sure as folks install we will know but im 99% sure it will not have any screen display with the unit shipping now. Even instructions dont mention any screen displays. This has been thrown around for a year now and this is more evidence its just a brake controller....

That's a good point, didn't know that but that would surely indicate no flash needed and money back in my pocket!

 

[mpainting]

Mine is going for a dealer install tomorrow. This is a text from service manager..."we have to do a vehicle restore after putting the accessory in, otherwise the vehicle does not recognize it has a brake controller. This does not change the software level of the vehicle in any module. I'm not 100% sure how the display will look with the brake controller as I have not personally seen one installed yet. My expectation is that it will be similar to the RAM"...we shall see

 

[tampahoosier]

Mine is going for a dealer install tomorrow. This is a text from service manager..."we have to do a vehicle restore after putting the accessory in, otherwise the vehicle does not recognize it has a brake controller. This does not change the software level of the vehicle in any module. I'm not 100% sure how the display will look with the brake controller as I have not personally seen one installed yet. My expectation is that it will be similar to the RAM"...we shall see

Sweet, are you expecting it back tomorrow? Make sure to keep us posted with a response as soon as you have it done!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Mine is going for a dealer install tomorrow. This is a text from service manager..."we have to do a vehicle restore after putting the accessory in, otherwise the vehicle does not recognize it has a brake controller. This does not change the software level of the vehicle in any module. I'm not 100% sure how the display will look with the brake controller as I have not personally seen one installed yet. My expectation is that it will be similar to the RAM"...we shall see

How the heck would it recognize a brake controller?
Via which wire? Can't be the blue - that's a run back to the trailer. The controller itself senses a trailer connection on that because of continuity to ground through the solenoids.
White? That's a pure ground
Black? That's a plain 12v battery signal.
Red - that's brake lights - is he suggesting it senses something else on the brake light circuit?

I bet he's guessing based on OTHER vehicles.
Restore? Hmmmmm, restore what?
Now if they do a PCM update - that's not due to this, that's because there's a PCM update for it. Mine got that last week.

I'm going to love to see how the first 1 or 2 of these come out! Can't wait to see what they do and how the JT behaves after. This will be interesting.

 

[mpainting]

Sweet, are you expecting it back tomorrow? Make sure to keep us posted with a response as soon as you have it done!

Yes, I will have it back tomorrow evening. And I will be pulling the camper this weekend, so we will see how it goes!

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