Hmm, this is an interesting solution. No More Dry Starts

[willys 41]

Like I said

Let the 3.6 sit over night
Remove the oil filter
You will not see oil dripping off the filter
What you will see is a almost dry filter

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[jac04]

Odd because I have never once heard a valve train rattle on start-up on any 3.6 I've ever owned. Just doesn't happen.

Well, it does happen, at least on JKs.

My 2021 JTM has never made any type of rattle at start-up, even on the first start after an oil change.

My 2014 JKR, on the other hand, will briefly rattle (maybe for a half second or so) at start-up after sitting for several days if I don't prime it (hold gas pedal to the floor and try to start it). What I found interesting is that on my JK it takes about 2.5 priming cycles for the oil pressure to get to about 25-28 psi (max that I see during priming) after sitting for 10-14 days. My oil pressure readout actually stays at 0 psi for about 1.5 priming cycles, then slowly climbs to about 12-15 psi during the last half of the second cycle. On the last half of the 3rd cycle, pressure increases slowly to about 28psi.

So, on my JK, no priming = rattle and priming = no rattle. Consistently.

Now, like I said above, my JT sounds different than my JK at start-up. I've never heard any clatter on start-up like is common with the JKs. However, on my JT, the oil pressure display on the Off Road Pages will not display an actual oil pressure until the engine is running, so I have no way of telling what is going on with the oil pressure at start-up. I can only assume that the 3.6 PUG engine has something different with the lubrication system or valve train system that eliminates the clatter that is common on the JKs.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Well, it does happen, at least on JKs.

My 2021 JTM has never made any type of rattle at start-up, even on the first start after an oil change.

I can only assume that the 3.6 PUG engine has something different with the lubrication system or valve train system that eliminates the clatter that is common on the JKs.

And you'd be assuming correctly. Different oil pump design, high volume capability the others never had.

I don't count on the gauges, I count on the light........depending on where the oil pressure sensors are, there can be a lag.

After an oil change the oil light stays on for roughly 1 to 2 seconds (and if people, all of us, were totally honest with ourselves, our imagined seconds are often different from reality, especially when there's concern over our engines)
But I have paid attention as I observe a lot of what's said "out there" and figured - ok, let's see what's up with that....... never saw or heard an issue. No rattle, no oil light beyond that after an oil change.
When I start either my current JT, the other one I had, or any GC we've owned, I never see the light on for more than 1 second if even that. It's off so quickly you have to pretty much stare at it.

I try to compare to the 360 sitting next to me in my shop - it has both oil light and electric oil pressure gauge (courtesy of the AMX cluster I recently installed in it). After sitting for a long time - and it sits for weeks, sometimes months, the oil light is off within 2 seconds. I don't hear rattle beyond that time if even that long (because the lights are typically triggered at 8 psi, that's really all it takes to quiet lifters so they have enough oil to remove valve lash before the light is even triggered to off) and the gauge follows - 2 or 3 seconds after that. Takes more time to register the gauge than the light (of course that's old school voltage sensitive gauge as opposed to pixel gauges on a display screen)
Fact is that any oil pressure beyond just about 5 or 6 psi is enough to fill lifters (lash adjusters) and quiet a valve train. Oil goes into them fast, but can't bleed out very fast past the body and inside barrel or through the valves in them.

As far as "old school" etc. etc. etc. - me, too. Been at this since the early 1970s, many dozens of engines under my belt, including anything from minor repairs to total rebuilds to some decent modifications.
There's more bad info out there about oiling systems and how things work than fact because people love to jump on bandwagons and anyone who suggests "you need this if you hear this" and even offers any sleight of hand explanation they've got the general population - and it grows exponentially from there.

If a person WANTS it, fine, go for it. But for that money.......... and the lack of any real evidence these engines have a problem to begin with other than just someone suggesting that "hey, if you don't see oil, you have a big problem", it makes no sense.
There's a lot of stuff out there "you need". Just ask 'em.

I know everyone out there my age used to swear Smokey Yunick was god and if you asked a question, whatever he said was 150% fact and indisputable and was the law. However, some of us have caught him contradicting even himself, and getting things wrong.

Same for frick and frack, or was that click and clack or Abbot and Costello who had a radio show, maybe they still do. A woman called in asking about brakes on her car. The advise they gave her was totally wrong for that car - and I really hope she didn't follow it. I could prove them wrong in books from Bendix, Wagoner, Kelsey-Hayes and others. It was just wrong. II totally cringed when I heard it - wish I had recorded it and could remember the details - all I remember is that it was totally wrong, especially for that car.
So sorry, I don't always bow down to the gods out there.
If you want this thing, buy it, but it's mostly a feel good thing.

I need to go out and buy lottery tickets now since I must have the best luck in the world since I've never owned a 3.6 that had any valve clatter when started. Cold engine noises, yes, that happens to pretty much anything, but it's not lack of oil.

On the JK - is that rattle a problem, or are people convinced that it's a problem so it bothers them while in reality, no harm done? Sometimes all it takes is a couple of people to agree that any specific sound is bad, they just know it is because it doesn't normally make such a sound so it must be bad, and it goes from there.
What about the people, like my brother, who simply buy and drive Jeeps and don't buy into any of the stuff about hanging things on, or "priming" and so on?
Of course "priming cycle" is still turning things over via the starter so it's still the same number of revolutions of the crank and cam before pressure is up.
It's not spinning the oil pump, it's cranking the whole engine until pressure comes up.
The oil pumps are engine driven rather than electric.

 

[willys 41]

Like I said again

Let the 3.6 sit over night
Remove the oil filter
You will not see oil dripping off the filter
What you will see is a almost dry filter

 

[dcmdon]

I had a pressure accumulator on my airplane engine. Think of it this way. The valve is open while the engine is running and oil pressure has pressurized something like a tiny scuba tank with a bladder in the middle like a surge tank in your home.

Before shutting off the engine you close the valve so that when you shut down the engine oil pressure is preserved in the tank.

Then hours, days, or weeks later, when you go to start the engine you open the valve so that the oil , still under pressure is forced into the engine to pre-oil and pre-pressurize the lifters and cam lobes.

In the case of a Lycoming aircraft engine the problem is also the cam, so this oil gets pushed through the cam oil gallerys first. Once you start the engine, the tank is filled within a minute or so, and you can close the valve to store that oil and pressure for the next start.

The Lycoming had a bunch of external oil lines, so fitting it was easy. I know nothing about our pentastars, but it might be an idea and IF (has it really been proven??) oil starvation to the valve train really is the cause of the problems, it might help.

 

[Tech Tim]

Once you pull the cap, the oil drains out.
If yours is dry, you likely have a malfunctioning part.

Quoting @willys 41:

Like I said again

Let the 3.6 sit over night
Remove the oil filter
You will not see oil dripping off the filter
What you will see is a almost dry filter

Baxter's video of the oil draining back down after 35 minutes:

I know about that website. This is from that site -

I've already posted FCA tech info talking about how when you remove the cap, it releases oil from the filter housing, and another where it says to remove the cap first to allow oil to drain from the filter housing.

That's for those who don't want to wait the 35+ minutes after shutting down the engine for the oil to drain down. That's it, speed and convenience, nothing more, nothing less.

You're thinking that because there is a "drain port" that is opened when you remove the filter, it must mean that it doesn't drain back. That's simply not the case. See @willys 41 post above.

There is no anti drain back in the filter nor in the oil cooler housing.

To hear Baxter and their fans talking, all of our engines are destined to rattle to death, and self-destruct, or at least have a lot shorter live spans without such a product. And yet - how many are out there with over 100,000 miles?

No, the Baxter adapter isn't to stop them from rattling to death, it's to cut that time down it takes to get the engine oil up to operating volume and pressure. It takes roughly 3.5 seconds to do that..... Every time you start the engine up after it has been sitting for longer than 35 minutes.

Those cam phasers and timing chain tensioners need both oil pressure and volume to operate. Getting them up to pressure and volume faster, if even by a second will help out.

Will that help the engine last longer? probably. Of course a lot will depend on what oil and filters they use, oil change intervals, vehicle use and all that other stuff that helps an engine live longer.

Well, it does happen, at least on JKs.

My 2021 JTM has never made any type of rattle at start-up, even on the first start after an oil change.

It happens on JL/JTs too.

Our first 2018 JL here has around 80K on it now and it has that dreaded 3.6 ticking at start up. But hey, it's lived a rough life over the past five years. We have another Baxters Adapter here to install in it, this one with the remote filter and oil cooler arrangement. Will it help quiet down the tick or will the tick keep on keeping on? We'll find out after we get it installed (might be a few months before we get at it).

 

[caryt]

If its really a issue go old school and pipe in a elect pre-oiler. Had one years ago on a EB . Flip a switch and in a few seconds had 30+ PSI.

 

[Hootbro]

No rattles on my 23 but get a random split second screech/squeal intermittently

If it is at startup, it has been a known and reported issue on both the JL and JT. It has to do with the vacuum pump and the brake booster building vacuum. If you play around with how much pressure you apply with the brake pedal on startup, it will vary or eliminate the startup squeal.

So far, it is nothing deemed worthy for Jeep to "fix".

 

[ATL_Rubi]

If it is at startup, it has been a known and reported issue on both the JL and JT. It has to do with the vacuum pump and the brake booster building pressure. If you play around with how much pressure you apply with the brake pedal on startup, it will vary or eliminate the startup squeal.

So far, it is nothing deemed worthy for Jeep to "fix".

Ahhhh great to know. I’ll toy with it, thanks!

 

[Hootbro]

Ahhhh great to know. I’ll toy with it, thanks!

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/squeal-when-starting-up-cold.20219/

 

[willys 41]

I am not sure whether the Baxter will help reduce the chance of cam failure (I hope so)
Put I do know that on startup both my 3.6 are much quieter
With over 30k in upgrades the Baxter cost penny's compared to all the rest
Here is another mod I did to the cooling system that has also brought down the oil temps by as much as 25 degrees
https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/temperature-reading-question.73085/#post-1193196
I have been doing a lot of testing and so far I am extremely impressed

 

[TheRealStreetcommander]

This is a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. I squander lots of money so I won’t judge anyone if they wanna waste theirs on one of these. Canister filters are clownish too. You can’t check the media without unnecessary effort. Maybe some people just need an orange China Fram in their life?

Mine rattles slightly on start. While I wish it did not, it worries me absolutely zero. The bearings and interface surfaces hold plenty of oil for the brief rattle at start. Pentastar don’t have problems related to lack of start-up oil. Pentastar are the highest quantity engine manufactured since 2011 and they are bulletproof. You’ll be able to buy 2 used low mile pentastar for the cost of one of these filter adapters in 10 years.

I can appreciate the desire to try and prolong the life of the engine. No evidence or rationale to believe this could be part of that quest. Pentastar don’t have failures which result from lack of oil pressure at start up.

 

[LostWoods]

Like I said again

Let the 3.6 sit over night
Remove the oil filter
You will not see oil dripping off the filter
What you will see is a almost dry filter

Take that "dry" filter and go rub it on your couch and I can assure you, it's not dry. It does not take a lot of oil to lubricate parts for the 5 seconds it takes to hit full pressure. The thin layer that persists after most of the oil has drained back is more than sufficient.

 

[8721coker]

If my understanding of physics is correct that air pocket at the top of the oil filter housing (the cap) will be compressed. Compressed air over the oil will be force the oil out of the oil filter housing. This is the reason the filter doesn't have lots of oil on it when it's removed after sitting overnight. A very small air bleeder orfice with a check valve an a oil drain line going into the cam cover would eliminate this condition.
Just my two cents.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Too much overthinking a problem that doesn't exist. Not even hydraulic engineers doing the thinking

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