Some confusion on max payload

[ShadowsPapa]

How much do they assume per passenger. If you have a larger wife it could throw the numbers off as well...

They don't assume anything. That's a big mistake on their build one web site. It says they assume a person weighs xxx but that's wrong - in the end it's what you put in the vehicle is payload - meaning YOU, your WIFE, your kids, your dog, your tools, your beer, you have to add all of that up.
If your payload sticker says 1100 pounds - then you weigh 200, your wife 130, you have to subtract 330 from that 1100 and now you have under 800 to use for your "stuff" like beer and such.
Payload is people, including driver, and food and pets and kids and spare boots, your phone, you name it. That's payload you must take away from the number on that door jamb sticker.
They don't account for people, they don't assume the driver weighs a certain amount as some may weigh 160 while the next guy weighs 300 like the prior owner of my SX4! He broke three springs and the driver seat frame was in 5 pieces and the seat belt was extended a few inches.

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[ShadowsPapa]

I had discussed it in the accessories/performance thread but will say it again here.

If you have a Rubicon with 1200lb payload. You have four 250lb folks in there (you and 3 buddies) that is 200lb left for your "stuff". Add a rubber horse mat to protect the bed (90lbs) and you barely have 100lbs left to put in before maxing out on payload.

Or if you have 1550lbs payload like I do, 90lbs for a rubber mat for the bed, 95lbs for the rock rails, 100lbs for the steel bumper, add the winch, add 1000lbs of people, that leaves me with just 265lbs of cargo payload. Less if I have stuff like tools/emergency roadside stuff. Puts things into perspective REAL quick. So I have a rule of thumb: 1000lb payload plus me. There was also some debate whether the max payload is actually 150lbs greater due to a 150lb driver allowance

No debate - check Curt and the camping sites - how can they assume a driver is ONLY 150 when most of us here are over that by some amount, some could be almost double that - then what?
The build a jeep site is the only place I've ever heard of that even says that - no other sites I've looked at do - it gets debated, but only because someone read and keeps repeating something they saw in one place.
Let's pretend and assume they are serious - then isn't that going to confuse the heck out of people - now they have to do math, well, how much over 150 am I today? That's an arbitrary number at best and will only confuse people already confused about payload.
If they give a "we allow xxx' then what if Ford says "we allow 200 pounds" and Chevy says "we allow 175 pounds".
So the towing and camping sites say "all people plus any other stuff" when figuring it.
IF Jeep sticks to that 150, they are really screwing with people and confusing an already confused world, IMO. It's irresponsible of them.

 

[PyrPatriot]

No debate - check Curt and the camping sites - how can they assume a driver is ONLY 150 when most of us here are over that by some amount, some could be almost double that - then what?
The build a jeep site is the only place I've ever heard of that even says that - no other sites I've looked at do - it gets debated, but only because someone read and keeps repeating something they saw in one place.
Let's pretend and assume they are serious - then isn't that going to confuse the heck out of people - now they have to do math, well, how much over 150 am I today? That's an arbitrary number at best and will only confuse people already confused about payload.
If they give a "we allow xxx' then what if Ford says "we allow 200 pounds" and Chevy says "we allow 175 pounds".
So the towing and camping sites say "all people plus any other stuff" when figuring it.
IF Jeep sticks to that 150, they are really screwing with people and confusing an already confused world, IMO. It's irresponsible of them.

It is in the owner’s manual.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It is in the owner’s manual.

Are you kidding? Wow, Jeep, the only company I've ever heard of doing that. So they allow 150 for a driver that is going to, at least 90% of the time, weigh more, sometimes a lot more. That's one of the dumbest things I've heard of 'em doing.
Seriously, go to any towing site, any site that talks about payload, camping and pulling campers, hauling camping gear, you name it - it says you have to account for the weight of all people and things you add to it. People including the driver and then Jeep throws that curve in?
Is that in the Wrangler or any of the other manuals? I'll have to see if that's in my wife's Jeep or my other Jeep.
That would mean I do NOT have to figure myself in! COOL. But really stupid because anyone that reads any site about towing or hauling will be calculating their weight along with their buddies and family.
Jeep is what's making it confusing - now I have to go re-read my owner manual again for the 5th time to see if I can find that.
Do you have a page number?

 

[MarineHawk]

My JTR hardtop with auto trans says 1,240 lbs. I rarely have over 550 lbs of humans in my cab. So, I have about 700 lbs to work with, which is enough for what I do. On rare occasions, I overloaded my GMC Sierra by about 400 lbs over the max payload (e.g., hauling gravel), and There was no consequence. I assume the Gladiator's payload numbers are fairly conservative, and aren't just one ounce short of the straw that will break the camel's back.

If anyone knows, how does something like the Mopar 2" lift affect payload capacity? Help or hurt?

 

[giskard]

so that chart above states that my Sport S with Tow Package should have a GVWR of 5800lbs, but my window sticker says 6250lbs. I am assuming the window stick takes all my accessories into account...right?

A Sport S with the max tow option should have a GVWR of 6250 lbs just like the Rubicon. The max payload capacity listed on your sticker should take all of the factory options into account. GVWR - weight of your particular truck (options included) = max payload capacity.

 

[MarineHawk]

According to Wikipedia, the average U.S. adult male weighs 196 lbs, and the average U.S. adult female weighs 168 lbs. Those seem kind of high to me. At 5’10” (i.e., pretty average), about 6 years ago, I got up to 203 lbs, but dramatically changed long-standing habits and am down to about 174 lbs. Am I really only 6 lbs heavier than the average U.S. adult female?

Unsurprisingly, the average U.S. adult mother-in-law weighs in at 388 lbs.

 

[Hosstyle]

A Sport S with the max tow option should have a GVWR of 6250 lbs just like the Rubicon. The max payload capacity listed on your sticker should take all of the factory options into account. GVWR - weight of your particular truck (options included) = max payload capacity.

thats just it. I don’t have Max Tow

 

[ShadowsPapa]

According to Wikipedia, the average U.S. adult male weighs 196 lbs, and the average U.S. adult female weighs 168 lbs. Those seem kind of high to me. At 5’10” (i.e., pretty average), about 6 years ago, I got up to 203 lbs, but dramatically changed long-standing habits and am down to about 174 lbs. Am I really only 6 lbs heavier than the average U.S. adult female?

Unsurprisingly, the average U.S. adult mother-in-law weighs in at 388 lbs.

Go sit for 10 minutes and "people watch" at the Iowa State Fair like my wife likes to do - you'll come to believe wikipedia is full of lard.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

thats just it. I don’t have Max Tow

Oops, wrong Max, sorry..............

 

[JT-NOOB]

You guys keep rehashing how to subtract options from the "no option" payload. I think everyone understands that. (at least on this thread).

But in fact, the listed payload on the door card is just Jeep trying to help you with the math for your particular vehicle. Payload is GVWR minus the empty weight of your particular truck. End of story.

The "limits" if you are a personal-injury-lawsuit-fearing individual, are simple:

1) Don't pack a vehicle until it exceeds the GVWR (see below)...and yes, YOU are included in that total, fatty
2) Don't pack a vehicle until it exceeds the rear axle load rating of 3750 lb (or the front load rating of 3100 lb)
3) Don't pack a vehicle and trailer until the total weight for everything exceeds the GCWR

The reason this topic is still being discussed is because there are 2 GVWR ratings given to Gladiators, and it wasn't always clear how each was assigned. As several have pointed out, a 5800lb GVWR rating is going to get full very quickly with a family and stuff, even in a low optioned vehicle. So many of us are exclusively interested in the 6250lb GVWR.

There are 5 Gladiator specs that get 6250 lb GVWR rating (to the best of our understanding circa 12/6/2019

-Rubicon Manual Transmission (options don't change GVWR)
-Rubicon Automatic Transmission (options don't change GVWR)
-Sport with Max Towing package (Automatic obviously)(other options don't change GVWR, but it MUST be the MAX towing package)
-Sport S with Max Towing package (Automatic)(other options don't change GVWR, but it MUST be the MAX towing package)

And finally the one that seems to be a hack to get the high GVWR:
-Sport S Manual Transmission WITHOUT ANY TOWING PACKAGE (if you get the regular towing package, you LOSE the GVWR high rating)

If you already bought your truck before you found out about all of this, and you have the 5800 lb GVWR, it's not the end of the world, but please spare the forum whatever rationalizations you make internally. Also, thanks to BasicGlad for really being the first to sort this all out. Jeep has released several tables with incorrect information, and actually has yet to release a document that is completely correct.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

You guys keep rehashing how to subtract options from the "no option" payload. I think everyone understands that. (at least on this thread).

But in fact, the listed payload on the door card is just Jeep trying to help you with the math for your particular vehicle. Payload is GVWR minus the empty weight of your particular truck. End of story.

The "limits" if you are a personal-injury-lawsuit-fearing individual, are simple:

1) Don't pack a vehicle until it exceeds the GVWR (see below)...and yes, YOU are included in that total, fatty
2) Don't pack a vehicle until it exceeds the rear axle load rating of 3750 lb (or the front load rating of 3100 lb)
3) Don't pack a vehicle and trailer until the total weight for everything exceeds the GCWR

The reason this topic is still being discussed is because there are 2 GVWR ratings given to Gladiators, and it wasn't always clear how each was assigned. As several have pointed out, a 5800lb GVWR rating is going to get full very quickly with a family and stuff, even in a low optioned vehicle. So many of us are exclusively interested in the 6250lb GVWR.

There are 5 Gladiator specs that get 6250 lb GVWR rating (to the best of our understanding circa 12/6/2019

-Rubicon Manual Transmission (options don't change GVWR)
-Rubicon Automatic Transmission (options don't change GVWR)
-Sport with Max Towing package (Automatic obviously)(other options don't change GVWR, but it MUST be the MAX towing package)
-Sport S with Max Towing package (Automatic)(other options don't change GVWR, but it MUST be the MAX towing package)

And finally the one that seems to be a hack to get the high GVWR:
-Sport S Manual Transmission WITHOUT ANY TOWING PACKAGE (if you get the regular towing package, you LOSE the GVWR high rating)

If you already bought your truck before you found out about all of this, and you have the 5800 lb GVWR, it's not the end of the world, but please spare the forum whatever rationalizations you make internally. Also, thanks to BasicGlad for really being the first to sort this all out. Jeep has released several tables with incorrect information, and actually has yet to release a document that is completely correct.

That's been a big part of the issue - Jeep's wrong or even just plain confusing numbers. And then they toss in this bit about drivers weighing 150 pounds which is total BS - I've never seen a chart that does that until Jeep.

In the end - it's a lot easier if people know "what can I put in my Jeep, stop with all the other stuff, I want to know how many pounds of stuff can I stack in it".
Me, for example - stop with the formulas, this GVWR vs. that GVWR - how much STUFF can I put in? 1,000? Cool, that's ALL I want to know - I weigh xxx pounds, my tools weigh xx pounds, transmission I bought at a swap meet 100 and so on.
But tell us the GVWR and we are stuck - ok what the hell does that mean - what can I put IN my truck? I want PAYLOAD numbers.

The door sticker tells me all I need to know - a simple basic number a bit under 1100 pounds in my case.
And I think that's what most truck people want - yeah, the big guns that toss these numbers around like candy, fine, and I know the science and all that behind it, I am a college trained tech, but why - when all I want to know when I leave my driveway is - how much stuff can I put in the back when I go to Lowes?
Can I buy 10 landscaping bricks at 70 pounds each? Or do I need my trailer.
(and if the 60 pounds of options you bought with it are a problem, then get the next truck up in payload capacity)

 

[PyrPatriot]

I found another instance of the driver weight allotment. See at the bottom: GCVWR = Base Weight + Gross Trailer Weight + 150lbs for Driver

Are you kidding? Wow, Jeep, the only company I've ever heard of doing that. So they allow 150 for a driver that is going to, at least 90% of the time, weigh more, sometimes a lot more. That's one of the dumbest things I've heard of 'em doing.
Seriously, go to any towing site, any site that talks about payload, camping and pulling campers, hauling camping gear, you name it - it says you have to account for the weight of all people and things you add to it. People including the driver and then Jeep throws that curve in?
Is that in the Wrangler or any of the other manuals? I'll have to see if that's in my wife's Jeep or my other Jeep.
That would mean I do NOT have to figure myself in! COOL. But really stupid because anyone that reads any site about towing or hauling will be calculating their weight along with their buddies and family.
Jeep is what's making it confusing - now I have to go re-read my owner manual again for the 5th time to see if I can find that.
Do you have a page number?

Looking to find page number again. For now here is another documentation of the allowance

Closest I can find (for now) is p.334 where it talk about loading and using 5 150lb occupants for cargo remaining. But, that would specifically imply there is NOT a 150lb driver allowance. Well, another email to jeep (though I feel I already did so and have their response somewhere)

 

[ShadowsPapa]

That's GCWR - didn't see that applied to payload............ maybe that's why I couldn't get their numbers to add up weeks ago when trying to account for various things - the payload numbers vs. curb weight vs. towing ratings - all off by numbers like 100 or maybe 150. The tow rating didn't agree with payload and other stuff.
I have never ever seen anything like that before!

Go to a camper forum, towing forum, Curt web site and others - and you get this -
"vehicle plus you, wife, kid, and luggage"
not
"vehicle with driver plus kid plus wife and luggage"

IMO, someone at Jeep XXXX'd up. I wonder if it's a marketing trick or an Italian thing! Naw, all that pasta, drivers have to be over 150 LOL

 

[TrailHiker]

The door sticker clearly states, Max payload includes driver, passenger and anything in the vehicle that did not come with it. So if the driver weighs 200 lbs. deduct that from the max weight to get cargo weight.
That chart is incorrect and my JT manual that came with the truck gas an addendum/correction sheet added to the manual correcting this info. I believe the latest on line manual is correct.
Cheers

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