"Sport S,ing" a Rubicon . . . ? and Towing Thoughts

[WXman]

The main towing limitation of the gladiator, at least in max towing trims, is cooling - not weight. It will overheat if loaded more than the rated amount on a long hill in hot temps. The max tow got 4.10 gears and the exact tire size specified to keep the penta star in its sweet zone for efficiency so it wouldn't overheat. The Rubicon while heavier, also has larger tires that affect the tow rating. That's why it's gcwr is slightly lower than the sport s max tow - it'll overheat as it doesn't quite have the right gearing for maximum towing. There's a very good article on jalopnik that explains all of it - including why the diesel is rated less.

So even if you get a sport s max tow and 'Rubicon' it, you'll hurt it's ability to tow as soon as you bolt bigger tires on it. It'll still have the door placard saying it's safe, so you won't get sued, but if you take it in for an overheated engine under warranty and were towing 7600lbs with bigger tires, expect it to get rejected.

That said, in my (Rubi with tow package) experience it doesn't struggle at all with 5000lbs. I don't know that I'd push the full 7k regularly, but 5000-6000 is fine.

Let's be realistic here. If you put a level and tape measure on the Sport and Rubicon (I've actually done this) the difference is very small. The Rubicon tires are 3.8% taller. If you took the 4.10 gears and reduced them by 3.8% you'd still be running a 3.94 gear. It's imperceptible.

I think the main difference is the weight. The Rubicon weighs almost exactly 400 lbs. more than the Sport Max Tow. Is it a coincidence then that the payload rating is exactly 400 lbs. less? I think not. And the GCWR is about 400 lbs. less also. As far as the towing capacity, they likely just picked a nice, round number since the truck wasn't going to equal the max for the lineup, and that's how they got to 7,000.

Obviously, if a guy runs 35s or 37s he's going to really hurt his practical towing performance, but as you noted the legal numbers still apply since wheels and tires do not subtract from payload.

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[Bobzdar]

What terrain are you towing on, what rpm’s and gear are you in? I know these Pentastars need to rev to make power but it seems a bit high. I guess the A/S is more slippery than a lot of trailers.

I'm in VA on the east coast, tow through the Shenandoahs periodically and through the Poconos in PA. Have been all the way to upstate NY with the A/S. The pentastar usually doesn't have to go over 4000-4500rpm and I'm never the slowest up the hills, not by a long shot. I have been towing for 10+years so I'm not new to it and make sure the hitch is setup properly and trailer brakes are in good shape and properly set. Flat ground it runs 7th gear at around 2500rpm, mildly hilly terrain is 6th gear, big hills it drops to 5th. Up Afton Mt. it did 55-60mph in 5th gear. I could have gone faster if I dropped to 4th and ran 5000rpm, but I was already in the fast lane running with traffic at that speed and the speed differential to the slow lane would have started to get dangerous.

I bet if the old 360 had 8 speeds behind it instead of 3 it would do real good . lol

8 speed makes a huge difference - it out tows my 2005 silverado which has the 5.3 315hp, but only a 4 speed auto, rated at 8400lbs towing. The 360 in the GW has been tuned so is actually pretty powerful - it doesn't struggle in normal hills but does slow down on big hills, the bigger issue is it has a short wheelbase so is less stable and is very sensitive to the hitch being set up perfectly and the trailer loaded properly, otherwise it can get scary. With it set like in the picture where the front and rear are level, it's pretty stable, but if the front isn't at stock height or lower it sways.

I do think the shape of the a/s makes a difference, you can feel it when it hits a head wind so I'd imagine a larger frontal area with a box shape would really start to tug on it.

 

[Bobzdar]

Let's be realistic here. If you put a level and tape measure on the Sport and Rubicon (I've actually done this) the difference is very small. The Rubicon tires are 3.8% taller. If you took the 4.10 gears and reduced them by 3.8% you'd still be running a 3.94 gear. It's imperceptible.

I think the main difference is the weight. The Rubicon weighs almost exactly 400 lbs. more than the Sport Max Tow. Is it a coincidence then that the payload rating is exactly 400 lbs. less? I think not. And the GCWR is about 400 lbs. less also. As far as the towing capacity, they likely just picked a nice, round number since the truck wasn't going to equal the max for the lineup, and that's how they got to 7,000.

Obviously, if a guy runs 35s or 37s he's going to really hurt his practical towing performance, but as you noted the legal numbers still apply since wheels and tires do not subtract from payload.

Yes, but GCWR includes vehicle weight, so if the Rubi could tow as much, the GCWR would be the same, just 400lbs lower max trailer weight (due to the higher weight of the vehicle). However, it's actually 650lbs less trailer weight and 400lbs lower GCWR, so apparently something other than the weight of the vehicle is influencing the tow rating, and as you said, the only meaningful difference between them is the tire size - same cooling, axles, gearing, brakes.

Per the below article:
"So to achieve 7,650 pounds, Milo told me a major enabler was optimizing the tire size along with the gear ratio, with the team ending up choosing—for the Sport trim with the Max Trailer Tow group—a 32-inch tire and a 4.10:1 axle ratio to keep heat rejection down."

https://jalopnik.com/the-engineering-behind-the-jeep-gladiators-tow-rating-1833657453

But like you said, if you just want the door placard, go ahead and get a sport s max tow, put bigger tires on it and watch the temp gauge closely - and swap the stock wheels/tires back on before taking it in for warranty work related to the drivetrain...

 

[BBQBird]

That said, in my (Rubi with tow package) experience it doesn't struggle at all with 5000lbs. I don't know that I'd push the full 7k regularly, but 5000-6000 is fine.

Good to hear. We have a Gulf Stream Vintage 19RBS. Dry weight is 3119 lbs. With just my wife and I, loaded it probably never touches 4K lbs. Unless we're headed to a BBQ comp. Then add meats and ice and charcoal and canopies and all the other stuff that doesn't fit in the back of our Laredo (where the smokers go, because I'm not putting those inside the trailer!), and we're pretty weighted down. So we've backed off on that until we can upgrade vehicles.

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

Here's the gw towing my airstream. It has a harder time than the JT.

What that ‘stream needs is a 67 LTD Country Squire in bright red and wood with a 428 and the 4 speed.

The grand wagoner can haul the gear on a deck trailer including a pair of rokons. The air stream goes to the base camp site and then the waggy goes up country to the field camp and then the rokons bring back the elk.

I too am always amazed when they show big 360 powered wagoners in shows about LA where’s it’s a daily. In what fantasy world is that a great idea. Mind you I’d love one having rolled a J3000 and J20 with pride but wow not in stop and die traffic.

 

[futzin']

Those Grand Wagoneers and 70-72 Chevy Super Cheyenne two-tone long bed: nothing better looking than those!

 

[TheSolarWizard]

I do not need, or want, a 1500 truck. Don't need a mid-sized truck either. I love the open air of the JT, just wanna make sure it will do what I want for what I will have to pay for it.

OK, that's out of the way.

Another weird idea: what about swapping the rear end in an Overland with 4.10s? And adding any necessary cooling. Disregarding warranty issues . . .
Would that effectively raise the tow rating of the Overland to 7600?

This must be a trolling attempt.
Don’t pull 7600 lbs with a JT. It’s gonna be pissed.

 

[futzin']

Yup, I'm a 100+ post troll here. If you read the thread posts, you'll see I have no plans to tow max weight.

Pay attention, Cali! Maybe the sun's in your eyes . . .

 

[Bobzdar]

What that ‘stream needs is a 67 LTD Country Squire in bright red and wood with a 428 and the 4 speed.

The grand wagoner can haul the gear on a deck trailer including a pair of rokons. The air stream goes to the base camp site and then the waggy goes up country to the field camp and then the rokons bring back the elk.

I too am always amazed when they show big 360 powered wagoners in shows about LA where’s it’s a daily. In what fantasy world is that a great idea. Mind you I’d love one having rolled a J3000 and J20 with pride but wow not in stop and die traffic.

If I could find something like that I'd do it - '67 would be the same year. I'd rather a Pontiac Catalina wagon with 428 and 4 speed, but either are like hens teeth these days. The waggy has been mostly retired, I'm actually probably going to sell it as I don't use it anymore - the JT does everything about a million times better and without the constant threat of it dying for no reason - the fuel pump quit last camping trip I took the GW on, but at least it was only 5 minutes from home.

 

[Ichthus]

Yup, I'm a 100+ post troll here. If you read the thread posts, you'll see I have no plans to tow max weight.

Pay attention, Cali! Maybe the sun's in your eyes . . .

I think a LOT of us had to wonder if the whole post was a troll... questions asked and hypotheticals created contained many...*how do I put this diplomatically*...illogical leaps. You want to do the impossible (change certified tow ratings) to accomplish the unnecessary. ALL trim levels with an automatic are capable of towing your proposed load of 5000 lbs, as long as you equip them correctly.

 

[futzin']

I do recognize the ignorance of my posts, but trolling? No clue where you guys got that. That's a low blow, kinda .

I did try to impart that the thoughts I put out there were likely not a great idea. Mostly trying to get more dialogue going about towing. Possibly stiffening the suspension of the Rubi to enhance towing, maybe reduce squat. There's so much on this forum about lifting, bigger tires, off-roading etc. Lots of discussion about enhancing the off-road experience, not nearly as much towing discussion. It is a truck, after all. The Wrangler already exists.

I appreciate everyone's responses and it has been helpful. Hoping to see more real world towing reviews in the 4-6K lbs range.

 

[Bobzdar]

I do recognize the ignorance of my posts, but trolling? No clue where you guys got that. That's a low blow, kinda .

I did try to impart that the thoughts I put out there were likely not a great idea. Mostly trying to get more dialogue going about towing. Possibly stiffening the suspension of the Rubi to enhance towing, maybe reduce squat. There's so much on this forum about lifting, bigger tires, off-roading etc. Lots of discussion about enhancing the off-road experience, not nearly as much towing discussion. It is a truck, after all. The Wrangler already exists.

I appreciate everyone's responses and it has been helpful. Hoping to see more real world towing reviews in the 4-6K lbs range.

The rubi suspension needs no work to tow, it's perfectly fine. Add a weight distribution hitch to get rid of the squat and it will overall be much better, cost less and ride better unloaded. The limitation is cooling in the Rubi (and all of them, actually - to get the tow rating up they have to be equipped with the higher capacity cooling) - that's why the gcwr is lower despite being basically the same as the sport s max tow. It's not available on the manual, probably because if they removed the cooling limitation it would then move to the clutch or trans, but they're all cooling limited in stock form.

 

[Texops]

I have the Overland with tow package it has the heavy duty cooling & big brakes but only 373 gears. I have 285/75/R17 Nitto ridge Grapplers on Heavy AEV Borah’s. They weighed 105# each . The 8 speed is really great. I took my wife & i to Guene Texas a 3 hour drive half flat & hills terrain. I averaged 18.8 miles per gallon & i do have the tires calibrated to the Jeep. So i will regear to 488 or 450 gears not to increase towing but to make it easier on towing my 4000# camper.

 

[futzin']

Keep us posted on that; I'm interested...

 

[eternus]

Sounds like a lot of work to find another 600 lbs of towing capacity.

Do the tires on a Rubicon play a factor as well?

Very much so. The tires weigh more, but also they increase the rolling diameter over what's in the Sport S. Heavier, bigger tires are going to affect tow quite a bit.

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