STOP Sale on all Manual Jeeps [Update: software flash fix arrives in March]

[DanW]

Thank you Kaitlin for taking the time to keep us up to date. It is greatly appreciated.

I was wondering, however, given the circumstances that a clutch would see excessive use and heat during a rough terrain crawl, that if the software decreases torque output at a crucial time that this might actually be a dangerous "fix" to take over at the worst possible moment (It may also be a bit of bad advertising to see a Gladiator stuck in the middle of the Rubicon "cooling down" while a Bronco zips on by. Just sayin'.) Additionally, if the advertised horsepower of 285 and torque of 260 are not what the JT is capable of at all times, then I have to ask if a software flash doing precisely that would be anything that Jeep expects any litigation against and if a buyback at original retail would be less expensive for FCA/Stellantis than a hardware change to a true flywheel/clutch? It has been stated here, other threads, and on the Wrangler Forum that this won't step down torque under "normal circumstances", but these are Jeeps and we are not "normal" people by definition. We are not threatening to go Michael Bay with our vehicles, but there should be some level of expectation that they can withstand even the lowest of our ranks riding/slipping a clutch. (They will be dealt with accordingly. )

I don't mean to sound accusatory or skeptical about the software fix, and I do NOT have the engineering degree to back up any claims against this working just fine; however, with more decades behind the wheel with a foot on a clutch behind my belt than I care to mention, my experience tells me that this fix will create a greater problem than Jeep can willingly foresee. And that is that its core fans will be, putting it mildly, dissatisfied and unimpressed if for some reason it EVER kicks in. Granted, we won't be on fire, for which we would be grateful (thank you in advance), but our expectations of this vehicle getting us out there and, more importantly, back in one, non-incendiary piece are not a very extravagant request to ask of a bit of technology and hardware that has been around long enough to be reliable to a point of not ever messing with.

I do apologize for the tone, it is definitely not my intention to come off as ungrateful or cynical for what we actually have here even though I haven't even received my JT yet and am still excited about it in spite of this issue. But I know that you can see that we only want this glorious beast to live up to its heritage and create a proud following that will gladly spend money with FCA in the future.

Thank you again, and any further updates and information will always be greatly appreciated!

I'm sure you already know this, but if you are crawling, you should be in low range. If you are doing much clutch slipping in low range, you are in too high a gear. These things crawl with barely any clutching. I've done 5 days straight of crawling in Moab and never once felt like it was hard on the clutch. However, when I back my Jeep up the driveway, the danged reverse is so tall, that's where I've had to slip it enough to smell it. MUCH more so than ever off-road.

I think the only time someone will ever experience this limp mode will be when the clutch is thorougly abused or if there is air in the hydraulic system. And by abused, I mean severely.

I hope to get the flash before going to Moab at the end of March. If I do, I'll let you know how it goes. I'd bet the farm that I'll never see it kick into limp mode, or that I'll never slip the clutch in a way to smell it. Low range combined with the low 1st gear should result in barely any need to slip the cluch.

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[DobaMark]

Does anyone know what they are actually doing during the sales stoppage? Here are some options they could be pursuing:
(1) Using this time to apply the software "fix" to all manual trucks (i.e. de-tuning the engine under certain parameters).
(2) Working on some other solution - perhaps a hardware solution, like a different clutch.
(3) Something else??

Most likely they are waiting for regulatory agency approval of the new software. nothing more, before they can begin distribution of the new software

 

[DobaMark]

So my guess is the software "calculates" the clutch temperature on some programmed algorithm rather than a real temperature monitor since this is just a software fix and no sensor iinstall is part of the recall.

I had a Fiat with the lovely DDCT (dual dry clutch transmission) that had a similar software function. At 3200 miles, my Fiat had overheated the clutch assembly to the point the car would no longer move three times and never lit the transmission warning light. I hope their programming skills have improved.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Ahhh the Fiat. Voted “Car of the Year” by the National Association of Tow Truck Drivers.

 

[DanW]

So my guess is the software "calculates" the clutch temperature on some programmed algorithm rather than a real temperature monitor since this is just a software fix and no sensor iinstall is part of the recall.

I had a Fiat with the lovely DDCT (dual dry clutch transmission) that had a similar software function. At 3200 miles, my Fiat had overheated the clutch assembly to the point the car would no longer move three times and never lit the transmission warning light. I hope their programming skills have improved.

Yes, but this one is developed by American engineers at FCA's US engineering Center. The Pentastar group. That's according to a friend close to them. He says they know what they are doing.

Time will tell, but every time I drive that Jeep, such as last night through a snow storm, I love it, so I'm optimistic. Still the best Jeep powertrain I've ever driven, by far. What a blast in the snow, too.

 

[cgflyer]

I'm sure you already know this, but if you are crawling, you should be in low range. If you are doing much clutch slipping in low range, you are in too high a gear. These things crawl with barely any clutching. I've done 5 days straight of crawling in Moab and never once felt like it was hard on the clutch. However, when I back my Jeep up the driveway, the danged reverse is so tall, that's where I've had to slip it enough to smell it. MUCH more so than ever off-road.

I think the only time someone will ever experience this limp mode will be when the clutch is thorougly abused or if there is air in the hydraulic system. And by abused, I mean severely.

I hope to get the flash before going to Moab at the end of March. If I do, I'll let you know how it goes. I'd bet the farm that I'll never see it kick into limp mode, or that I'll never slip the clutch in a way to smell it. Low range combined with the low 1st gear should result in barely any need to slip the cluch.

Agreed! the only time I have ever "smoked" a clutch in my JT or my JK was in reverse trying get a trailer backed up an incline or parked in soft ground avoiding a tree nearby. I was moving a large equipment hauler (empty about 1,600 lbs) with a pintle hitch (really hard to get them to swing) and I smoked the clutch. I was annoyed by myself (been driving a MT for 30 years) but as you state, in 4LO on the trail, you really don't need to clutch. I know in my JK, 2nd gear in 4LO would not stall without the clutch at full stop. I'm still experimenting with the JT, but so far 3rd gear in 4LO is very comfortable. I will NOT be getting the flash as I don't ever plan on being in a situation that blows up my transmission. I already had the first recall completed. My clutch was in specs, no codes and they installed the rerouting of the lines for the fire proofing. Unless they offer a new clutch, I will skip the new recall.

 

[DobaMark]

Yes, but this one is developed by American engineers at FCA's US engineering Center. The Pentastar group. That's according to a friend close to them. He says they know what they are doing.

Time will tell, but every time I drive that Jeep, such as last night through a snow storm, I love it, so I'm optimistic. Still the best Jeep powertrain I've ever driven, by far. What a blast in the snow, too.

I hope so, but this same engineering facility also under-spec'd the clutch and steering boxes (probably because of unrealistic cost targets from FCA headquarters). I'm hoping Stellantis is better than FCA. FCA cut pennies to drive profits up and it costs them real dollars to fix the shortcomings.

 

[JimWillis319]

Anyone goes in for the software update without at MINIMUM complaining to Jeep or borderline demanding a new/stronger clutch is a fool.

For those saying 'the only time you'll slip your clutch is if you're seriously beating on it'... Really? Then how is this recall in existence? You really think THAT many drivers were beating the shit out of their brand new trucks and they are the ones they're basing this recall on? This software update is a joke. No one should be accepting the software update unless it's some sort of interim while they figure out a PHYSICAL solution.

 

[5JeepsAz]

Astounding.

People defend the recalled part, lawyers, and this lousy half assed tech solution to a mechanically resolvable actual mechanical problem.

When confronted with their abject stupidity they further blame the customer who decries this foulness.

#100% Jeep 100% Truck. ?

 

[Happiator]

Anyone goes in for the software update without at MINIMUM complaining to Jeep or borderline demanding a new/stronger clutch is a fool.

For those saying 'the only time you'll slip your clutch is if you're seriously beating on it'... Really? Then how is this recall in existence? You really think THAT many drivers were beating the shit out of their brand new trucks and they are the ones they're basing this recall on? This software update is a joke. No one should be accepting the software update unless it's some sort of interim while they figure out a PHYSICAL solution.

100% this. I hope current owners beat them up over this so it gets resolved the right way, for them and in the future.

 

[hawk14414]

Anyone goes in for the software update without at MINIMUM complaining to Jeep or borderline demanding a new/stronger clutch is a fool.

For those saying 'the only time you'll slip your clutch is if you're seriously beating on it'... Really? Then how is this recall in existence? You really think THAT many drivers were beating the shit out of their brand new trucks and they are the ones they're basing this recall on? This software update is a joke. No one should be accepting the software update unless it's some sort of interim while they figure out a PHYSICAL solution.

I've smoked my clutch a bit twice now, both times just getting done what needed to get done. Been driving manual for 50 years, and I know when a clutch is starting to heat up, and I know when enough is enough. And....most importantly to me...I want to be in control of that decision, not Jeep. I don't want Jeep deciding to shut my truck down in the wrong situation. No software solution for me unless something changes significantly. I won't even bring mine in for a free oil change until this is resolved, for fear of them doing the recall by accident. Id like to hear EXACTLY how the software will calculate an over temp event, what it will do, and for how long. If those parameters are really way over the top, meaning you'd have to be beating the crap out of it....then maybe I'd be more open to the fix. Give me the details Jeep!

 

[mitchelmb]

I wish Jeep would make Tremec 6 speed with appropriate ratios and adapt it for 4wd in this applications. Then the clutch and transmission would handle, supercharging, a hemi, a hellcat, you name it. We wouldn't have to worry about power output. That would be an ideal fix. I'd pay to have.

 

[AustinL911]

Astounding.

People defend the recalled part, lawyers, and this lousy half assed tech solution to a mechanically resolvable actual mechanical problem.

When confronted with their abject stupidity they further blame the customer who decries this foulness.

#100% Jeep 100% Truck. ?

Elon Musk recently said in an interview that the MBAs running companies are simultaneously ruining them. We have gotten away from making the best products or services and shifted towards making the best business. Companies should be striving to constantly make their products better, but with the MBA schmucks at the wheel, these cost cutting software update fixes are what you get instead.

F'n Jeep should be absolutely ashamed that they have nerve to sell these things for $50-60k (which is already overpriced), take shortcuts when producing them, and then take yet another shortcut when trying to remedy it. And then...blame it on the customer like its somehow their fault the F'n thing wasn't built right to begin with. Unbelievable.

 

[stickshifter]

I wish Jeep would make Tremec 6 speed with appropriate ratios and adapt it for 4wd in this applications. Then the clutch and transmission would handle, supercharging, a hemi, a hellcat, you name it. We wouldn't have to worry about power output. That would be an ideal fix. I'd pay to have.

Couldn't agree more. Here is one version of a Tremec 6-speed adapted by Rockland Standard Gear for four-wheel drive applications. This manual transmision - called "Tranzilla" - is available with three torque ratings: 500, 700 and 850 lb/ft (and a clutch that can handle said torque ratings):
https://speedrevolutions.com/equipp...ntroduces-6-speed-tranzilla-4x4-transmission/
Jeep could have worked with Rockland, or with Tremec directly to develop a manual well-suited to the Jeep platform. What's past is past though. Moving forward, Jeep should re-develop the manual in the JL and JT with (1) better gear spacing (in my opinion, spacing needs to be more consistent, and there shouldn't be two overdrive gears so close together), (2) a lower-geared reverse (what is with the super-tall reverse gear in both the JT and the 3rd Gen Tacoma? Everyone smokes the clutch backing up steep inclines or other high-load situations unless they drop into 4-low), and (3) a crawler gear like that in the 7-speed Getrag (not everyone gets a Rubicon with the 4:1 low range, and having a crawler gear in hi-range is really convenient).

 

[AJG]

So I haven’t looked around, yet, but are there no aftermarket alternatives that could help us? I’ve not been impressed with this clutch so far (only 2k miles) but already thinking about upgrades. Call me skeptical but I have little faith that a major company will sacrifice millions/billions to do the right thing on a mechanical solution when a software solution makes it seem like they are “trying” to address the problem for much less $$

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