Why I'm picking the Gladiator.

[WILDHOBO]

I think the Rubicon has a different t-case than the other models, giving it 4:1 reduction. I'm not sure on the specific t-case model designation, I haven't made it that far down the rabbit hole yet.

We are also building an LJ Rubicon right now that was abused/neglected by previous owners, so my attention is slightly split between Jeeps.

All rubicon t-cases are 4:1, but not all have 4H Auto.

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[Sweetums]

All rubicon t-cases are 4:1, but not all have 4H Auto.

Good to know. I don't think that's something I'm particularly interested in having, I like being able to tell the vehicle what I want it to do and I tend to be annoyed when the computer thinks it's smarter than me.

I'm strange though, I grew up driving snowy mountain roads in a 1970s RWD manual car with an open diff and still expect modern cars with AWD and loads of driver aids to behave the same way - allowing me to fix understeer with a dab of throttle. It annoys me when the computer cuts in and says "No! No throttle for you! Have more understeer."

Nissan's VDC is pretty horrible at this, especially with a manual. If I don't disable it before hitting deep snow it will cut power until the engine stalls - usually while I'm pushing snow up to the headlights.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Good to know. I don't think that's something I'm particularly interested in having, I like being able to tell the vehicle what I want it to do and I tend to be annoyed when the computer thinks it's smarter than me.

I'm strange though, I grew up driving snowy mountain roads in a 1970s RWD manual car with an open diff and still expect modern cars with AWD and loads of driver aids to behave the same way - allowing me to fix understeer with a dab of throttle. It annoys me when the computer cuts in and says "No! No throttle for you! Have more understeer."

Nissan's VDC is pretty horrible at this, especially with a manual. If I don't disable it before hitting deep snow it will cut power until the engine stalls - usually while I'm pushing snow up to the headlights.

I get that. It’s not forced. It’s an extra physical shift point on the transfer case. You get 2H, 4H-Auto, 4H, and 4L. 4H auto only engages the front wheels if slip is detected, but you can use it at interstate speeds on dry roads. 4H should not be used on dry roads with good traction. 4H Auto is perfect for interstate driving when it’s patchy between ice, snow, water, and dry road conditions.

 

[Sweetums]

I get that. It’s not forced. It’s an extra physical shift point on the transfer case. You get 2H, 4H-Auto, 4H, and 4L. 4H auto only engages the front wheels if slip is detected, but you can use it at interstate speeds on dry roads. 4H should not be used on dry roads with good traction. 4H Auto is perfect for interstate driving when it’s patchy between ice, snow, water, and dry road conditions.

Ah, that's identical to my XJ's system. As I recall those older t-cases with 4-High Auto were less reliable than the traditional 2-High, 4-High, 4-Low models. I'm sure things have changed since 2001, but I'm okay going with a simpler, more robust system. By the time I shift into 4WD there isn't any high-traction surface in sight anyway.

 

[Silverator]

I'm new to the forum and currently looking for a JT to replace my 17 year old 204,000+ mile Nissan Xterra. I thought I might share my assessment of the Midsize truck segment and why I've decided to buy a JT.

The competitors:

<<<SNIP>>>

Hopefully I can post soon with a new-to-me JT Rubicon.

Nice analysis. You did WAAAY more work than I did. (Month old 2022 JT Rubicon). I just wanted a jeep for hitting the local trails, and needed a truck. The solution was simple for me. Glad I didn't have to do all the work you did. I hope you find the right Rubicon for you, and enjoy the heck out of it!!! Cheers,

 

[DBravo]

I'm new to the forum and currently looking for a JT to replace my 17 year old 204,000+ mile Nissan Xterra. I thought I might share my assessment of the Midsize truck segment and why I've decided to buy a JT.

The competitors:

Honda Ridgeline: I mean, it's a Honda. It also has best-in-class payload and good towing; unfortunately, it's lightly built and not intended for anything harder than a gravel road, so it's out. I never drove this because it was never in the running.

Ford Ranger FX4: I have a friend with a Ranger, the interior is decent on the surface and it's comfortable. The engine pulls hard and the transmission is fine. I'm not a fan of turbos since I tend to keep my vehicles for a long time and a lot of miles, it's an extra point of failure. I would prefer an understressed NA motor than a high compression small displacement motor being pushed to the limit all the time. I also have concerns about the transmission, having had problems with Ford transmissions in the past. Both the engine and transmission have been having reliability issues. I'm also not convinced the interior is going to hold up to abuse as well as my old Nissan, which after nearly 20 years of hard off road abuse and countless miles of washboard roads still is free of squeaks and rattles. Our Taurus was already rattling inside with a quarter of those miles on smooth pavement.

Toyota Tacoma TRD Pro: There are some actual problems with the Toyota, but the biggest issue is I physically don't fit in the driver's seat. Well, I can, but not comfortably and not for very long. It also has a miserable payload of only 900 lb and the frame is flexy as hell and riveted rather than welded together. It is available with a manual transmission, which is a big plus. Worst seating position in the class for me. Comes from the factory with a rear locker. Seating position aside, my main issues with the Toyota are the chassis. The back half of the truck is c-channel rather than being fully boxed like every other truck on the market; the Tacoma has notable frame flex (you can actually see it if you fully articulate the truck). I think this will be a problem down the road because the back end of the frame is riveted to the front boxed section. This will allow for play, but if (when) the sealant they goop on there breaks down, water, salt, and dirt will get in and start sanding that joint to bare metal. That will mean frame rust and eventual failure.

Nissan Frontier Pro-4X: The new Nissan Frontier has the looks. I mean, dayum it's a good looking truck. It also has the most power in the class at 310 bhp; unfortunately that sweetheart of an engine is mated to a disappointing 9-speed automatic that never seems to know where it wants to be. The manu-matic mode is more of a suggestion to the transmission that it might please consider, when convenient, swapping some cogs around. The infotainment is also frustrating and not intuitive. I've been pretty opposed to screens in my vehicles, preferring physical switches - but if I have to interact with a screen I don't want it to be infuriating. No manual option on the transmission, unfortunately. Seating position was comfortable and the seats were above average - but Nissan removed some of the height adjustment on the driver's seat, I had less thigh support than my current Nissan. Rear locker is standard. The interior quality also seems lacking, Nissan is having financial problems and I can feel it when using switches and buttons, they felt cheaper and less solid than my Xterra. They also use those printed switches where the black wears off after 30,000 miles and starts to show the base translucent white underneath.

Chevrolet Colorado ZR2: Best ride in the class, hands down. The chassis is solid, the power is there and it will easily spin the rear on dry pavement if you aren't careful with the throttle. The engine, however, is notorious for timing chain tensioner and guide issues (usually $3,000+ to repair and the problem will come back), the fancy-ass shocks are proprietary and connected to the computer, so who knows what a shock rebuild or replacement would cost and the interior quality is what I would have expected in the 1990s. The 50k truck we tried out already had switches with notable wear through the markings to the white plastic below. The back seat is nearly unusable for a human with my seat in the right position and the seating position was not comfortable. No manual, but dual lockers.

Jeep Gladiator Rubicon: Comfortable seating position and excellent seats, but the dash feels closer and higher than other trucks. The rear seat could actually fit a second Sasquatch with my driver's seat set where I liked it. The engine delivered adequate power, the Butt Dyno says it had more power than my Xterra - and it does by about 15 BHP; not a road-burner, but no slouch either. The Jeep interior was the best of the contenders with superior fit and finish (that may be a brand new sentence). All the switchgear felt solid without any wobbles, the wheel was meaty and felt very nice to hold - pretty much every "interface point" was better than the competition. The Infotainment system, a consistent sore-spot in the reviews, was intuitive, easy to navigate, and had great functionality for off road use. The Rubicon has locking front and rear diffs, and a front swaybar remote-disconnect. The ride was surprisingly good, but I can see the complaints of it being sprung too soft for load carrying and towing. Also, it's long. Like really long. Nearly full-size truck levels of "long" here and still with a 5" bed. On the up side, you can get one in a manual, although they are hard to find. Finally, the cost. Holy shit on a stick, the Gladiator is expensive - $60,000+ for a midsize truck! But hey, you can take the roof and doors off.

Why the Gladiator?

The smart money should be on the Frontier, but I got into it and felt very "meh" - just an overwhelming sense of "sameness" despite it being a new truck. The transmission just killed it for me. I hated it, even my wife in the passenger seat hated it and she got frustrated with navigating the screen almost immediately.

The Jeep is not without flaws, the long wheelbase and overall length are detriments, but I really liked being in it. I liked looking at it. Say what you will about Jeep, they know how to make emotional and fun cars. The Jeep's 8-speed automatic was the best of the ones I drove and it's a common transmission used in a ton of vehicles; but it also has a 6-speed manual option. Although the manual is maligned in the press for being a bad fit with the Pentastar 3.6, I just didn't get that impression. Maybe it's the 4.10 diff gearing in the Rubicon that made the difference, but the shifting was light, quick, and felt very nice once I got used to not having the X-terra's heavy clutch underfoot.

The Pentastar 3.6 has been criticized for cracked heads, roller bearing failures, and cooling issues. You can also wreck the oil filter housing if you're a ham-fisted ape with the socket wrench. The engine's failure rate is actually quite low, 0.5% to 1% at the peak of the cylinder head crack issues - but when you have made over 10 million of those engines, that 0.5% ends up being a higher number. From what I've read, the engine has had several revisions and retrofit roller bearings have been available for some time - which of course were also used in production to address the problem. The cracking heads doesn't seem to be an issue in later-production engines either.

The comfort, interior quality, overall design, and the emotional X-factor sold me on the Gladiator. It's a truck that feels fun above all else.

Hopefully I can post soon with a new-to-me JT Rubicon.

Nice write up

I too considered Ridgeline, Tacoma and Colorado
-Honda Ridgeline reminded me too much of past minvans which we are running away from now that the kids are "growed"
-Toyota Tacoma - what's with the cramped seating positions? My wife and i are both 6' and 2 of my 4 kids are already 6'4". I will share that my 6'4" 21 yr old owns a 2018 Tacoma TRD w/6-spd manual but he has the seat all the way back leaving no room in the back for anyone and while i am limber and in good physical condition, I don't find it comfortable to get in and out of.
-Chevy Colorado - in the end it was a close decision between the Chevy Colorado and Jeep JT. The Jeep Overland won out mainly because we have owned many Jeeps in the past and wanted another - with the bonus of a truck bed. I also found one in Punk'n Orange Metallic. No complaints about power, gas mileage or travel comfort. I've put 20k miles per year on it since purchasing in June 2020.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Ah, that's identical to my XJ's system. As I recall those older t-cases with 4-High Auto were less reliable than the traditional 2-High, 4-High, 4-Low models. I'm sure things have changed since 2001, but I'm okay going with a simpler, more robust system. By the time I shift into 4WD there isn't any high-traction surface in sight anyway.

These definitely aren’t the same system, and they’re robust enough to be the only ones in the 392 wranglers. In those they do force it to keep people from over powering the rear wheels though. I’m not pushing. But many like these enough that they sometimes try to retrofit them, which isn’t easy.

 

[Sweetums]

These definitely aren’t the same system, and they’re robust enough to be the only ones in the 392 wranglers. In those they do force it to keep people from over powering the rear wheels though. I’m not pushing. But many like these enough that they sometimes try to retrofit them, which isn’t easy.

Sounds like they learned from the failures of the previous model, that's good to hear.

 

[Sweetums]

Nice write up

I too considered Ridgeline, Tacoma and Colorado
-Honda Ridgeline reminded me too much of past minvans which we are running away from now that the kids are "growed"
-Toyota Tacoma - what's with the cramped seating positions? My wife and i are both 6' and 2 of my 4 kids are already 6'4". I will share that my 6'4" 21 yr old owns a 2018 Tacoma TRD w/6-spd manual but he has the seat all the way back leaving no room in the back for anyone and while i am limber and in good physical condition, I don't find it comfortable to get in and out of.
-Chevy Colorado - in the end it was a close decision between the Chevy Colorado and Jeep JT. The Jeep Overland won out mainly because we have owned many Jeeps in the past and wanted another - with the bonus of a truck bed. I also found one in Punk'n Orange Metallic. No complaints about power, gas mileage or travel comfort. I've put 20k miles per year on it since purchasing in June 2020.

I hear you, I'm 6'4" and I feel like I'm folding myself into a clown car climbing into my friend's Tacoma.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Sounds like they learned from the failures of the previous model, that's good to hear.

It’s definitely not the awd setup the old cherokees had. When the transfer case is in that gear, it’s rear wheel drive with the front drive shaft moving, but not the front axle shafts. The same wheel sensors used for traction control engage the front axles only if the rears slip. It’s really quite good. It’s also a nice way to turn your front pinion when not off road, to make sure it’s not motionless for long periods of time. After 30k miles on mine, I really se no down side to it.

 

[Phil_R]

The tow capacity is 5,000# regardless of trim level, with most published tow capacities the manufacturer is using a stripped down 2WD base model to maximize the measurement. I also didn't take diesel options into account to compare apples to apples (and a diesel isn't in the cards for me). Once you look at the more off-road oriented trims the tow and payload ratings drop.

Numbers may have changed with some of the recent refreshes of some trucks, like the Ranger, but I believe the off-road focused Tremor has a lower tow rating than their base-model work truck. Finding the tow and payload numbers for the higher (heavier) trims can be tough, manufacturers like to post the "Up to XXXXX pounds of towing (when properly equipped)*" but not the capacities of the more expensive models, which are often less competitive.

I just traded in a 2022 Ford Ranger Tremor. All the Rangers including the Tremor have the high tow rating. It was a great truck, just missed having a Jeep Gladiator! Good luck with your new Jeep as well

 

[Kirk*Mojave]

If you tow a trailer or haul heavy stuff in the bed frequently scratch the Tacoma off your list or plan on buying air bags for it.

 

[be77solo]

The ZR8 is the least-bad automatic by a mile, but this is probably my last chance to buy a manual transmission before every vehicle is electrified and manual transmissions become relics of the past.

Absolutely this right here... I've had my '21 manual for almost 2 years now and love driving it. A Jeep to me just needed a manual, and this was probably the last real great new purchase option that fit my needs before they all go electric single pedal ha. Otherwise I'd have just bought another Tundra.

 

[Puch]

Why the Gladiator?
Because you like personalizing your vehicles with upgrades. Unfortunately, you will spend money on upgrades and then spend money on upgrading the upgrades.
I’ve had my JT for 3ish yrs (first Jeep).
Not counting what’s on my JT now, I have 3 front track bars, 2 sets of wheels, front and rear rockjock sway bars, 2 steering stabilizer, complete MT take offs. Set of fenders, 2 front bumpers, and a bunch of other misc parts all sitting in my shed and garage.
Seriously, I might need counseling…..or a second job?
Regardless of your budget or poor spending habits, have fun! That’s what it’s all about.

 

[Mav4x4Chris]

The tow capacity is 5,000# regardless of trim level, with most published tow capacities the manufacturer is using a stripped down 2WD base model to maximize the measurement. I also didn't take diesel options into account to compare apples to apples (and a diesel isn't in the cards for me). Once you look at the more off-road oriented trims the tow and payload ratings drop.

Numbers may have changed with some of the recent refreshes of some trucks, like the Ranger, but I believe the off-road focused Tremor has a lower tow rating than their base-model work truck. Finding the tow and payload numbers for the higher (heavier) trims can be tough, manufacturers like to post the "Up to XXXXX pounds of towing (when properly equipped)*" but not the capacities of the more expensive models, which are often less competitive.

You can spec a Gladiator all the way to 7,650 towing and up to 1,700 pounds payload.

My 2022 Gladiator Sport S / Max Tow is such a critter, though with 1,471 pounds payload.

Actually, for '23 and up the highest tow capacity is 7,700 pounds. Chevy advertised the all new Colorado at 7,700 pounds so Jeep tacked on an extra 50 to meet them.

I compared many trucks as well though not as in depth.

Nissan too small.
Tacoma, didn't care for the engine or transmission.
GM twins were aging and I didn't want to wait on the refresh to get a truck.
Ranger, well, good luck ordering and getting one at the time.

My Gladiator had a nice feeling drive train, the most back seat space, good looks, easy to lift, and very high towing and payload figures and the best gears for future tires. 4.10 with a low first gear ratios.

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