Recall: Manual Transmission / Clutch Recall for 2020-2021 Jeep Gladiator (Notice: 21V-028)

[Rubi_Rhod]

By this i mean, why would the rpms go up if im in neutral? it should go down and stay down around 1k rpm right? But sometimes it goes down to 1k and then back up to 2.5k rpm and back down when i dont have my foot on the gas pedal. I read somewhere some cars do that automatically to help shit to the next gear. Is that true?

There’s really no reason to do this, as it technically burns fuel to idle the engine vs letting it coast. So it could be a glut of fuel in the intake from dropping idle then wanting to burn it off. Rev hang. Its a thing with engine management wanting a clean burn, but with port injection there’s fuel left unburned so it can add extra hang to balance out. It only takes a little hit of throttle or fuel to do that. And it’s not at all linear. It’s pretty aggressive.

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[SelfmodJT]

There’s really no reason to do this, as it technically burns fuel to idle the engine vs letting it coast. So it could be a glut of fuel in the intake from dropping idle then wanting to burn it off. Rev hang. Its a thing with engine management wanting a clean burn, but with port injection there’s fuel left unburned so it can add extra hang to balance out. It only takes a little hit of throttle or fuel to do that. And it’s not at all linear. It’s pretty aggressive.

So the rev hang is normal in the gladiator because the penstar engine is not a direct injection engine?

 

[SelfmodJT]

So if this recall affects 100% im assuming it also means the gladiators that had the first recall fixed, right? So its not a hardware issue, it has to be a design issue. So even if i replace the clutch with an aftermarket will this still happen because of a design flaw? They really fuked up if this is the case.

 

[stickshifter]

Lol, yeah, but they would have a hard time with that with a known defect and the fact they sell lifts and openly talked about the Rubicon being able to handle 35's without a lift. Hell, the Mopar catalog is full of Wranglers and Gladiators with 35's on them. They'd lose big time on that. But maybe with 38's or 40's, sure. 37's? I doubt it. Too common.

Not trying to be a jerk - but this is really speculative. I would not be comfortable assuming that a warranty will be honored when running 37s, and I would want it in writing from my dealer's warraty department. I'm not one to defend the warranty department at any auto company, but I can see the argument that they are not responsible for damage done to the power train when running 37s. The heavier 37-inch tires weigh 90-100 pounds (just the tire, not including the wheel), while stock 33-inch tires weigh 55-65 pounds. I think if you move up to a 37 its on you to upgrade drive train components that will be impacted by the greater rotational mass of the bigger tire, its not on Jeep to pay to fix stuff you break. When it comes to 35s, that's a different story. As you point out, Jeep uses 35-inch tires in promotional material, so they need to stand behind their warranty for trucks running 35s (you can't market something and not back it - that's cheating).

Having said that, it seems like the manual transmission in the JT was under-built. Just my opinion here, but it seems like it should have a little higher torque rating, and a better clutch. Jeep should give folks the option of replacing the stock clutch with an aftermarket one (like a Centerforce clutch, for example), and they should split the cost of the upgrade with the customer: Jeep pays what it would cost them to replace the clutch with stock, and customer pays the difference. This may sound crazy to some folks, but I did something similar with an old Toyota truck at my local dealer (we split the cost of upgrading from crappy auto-hubs in a 1980s Toyota pickup to Warn manual locking hubs). Everyone left happy. I know this would never be Jeep policy, but if you have a good relationship with your dealer service department, its worth the conversation.

 

[SelfmodJT]

Not trying to be a jerk - but this is really speculative. I would not be comfortable assuming that a warranty will be honored when running 37s, and I would want it in writing from my dealer's warraty department. I'm not one to defend the warranty department at any auto company, but I can see the argument that they are not responsible for damage done to the power train when running 37s. The heavier 37-inch tires weigh 90-100 pounds (just the tire, not including the wheel), while stock 33-inch tires weigh 55-65 pounds. I think if you move up to a 37 its on you to upgrade drive train components that will be impacted by the greater rotational mass of the bigger tire, its not on Jeep to pay to fix stuff you break. When it comes to 35s, that's a different story. As you point out, Jeep uses 35-inch tires in promotional material, so they need to stand behind their warranty for trucks running 35s (you can't market something and not back it - that's cheating).

Having said that, it seems like the manual transmission in the JT was under-built. Just my opinion here, but it seems like it should have a little higher torque rating, and a better clutch. Jeep should give folks the option of replacing the stock clutch with an aftermarket one (like a Centerforce clutch, for example), and they should split the cost of the upgrade with the customer: Jeep pays what it would cost them to replace the clutch with stock, and customer pays the difference. This may sound crazy to some folks, but I did something similar with an old Toyota truck at my local dealer (we split the cost of upgrading from crappy auto-hubs in a 1980s Toyota pickup to Warn manual locking hubs). Everyone left happy. I know this would never be Jeep policy, but if you have a good relationship with your dealer service department, its worth the conversation.

But youre assuming its a hardware issue? As i stated before, the recall says 100% so that means the first recall fix didnt do anything. What was the fix for the first recall? Clutch replacement?

 

[DanW]

So if this recall affects 100% im assuming it also means the gladiators that had the first recall fixed, right? So its not a hardware issue, it has to be a design issue. So even if i replace the clutch with an aftermarket will this still happen because of a design flaw? They really fuked up if this is the case.

Still not sure it is a design flaw but a procedure flaw. This recall appears to address what happens once the problem is there and causes the heat to damage the pressure plate. Not all of them are having the problem and building the heat. This one seems more of a preventative measure.

RIght now, my best guess, and this is nothing but a guess, is that if all is functioning normally, most will never experience that kind of heat and they will not experience the problem. But if even a few wind up with the original problem, the heat will build and this recall is to mitigate the violence of the pressure plate breaking up.

So what is the original problem? I still think it involves air in the hydrolic system that causes the clutch not to fully disengage from the pressure plate, causing the friction. Then again, there could be other issues that could cause it. But I'm no expert.

What I would recommend first and foremost is that drivers learn the absolute best driving techniques that would minimize clutch slipping, such as putting it in neutral at stop lights unless the stop is very short. Also, pay attention to it. If you run it hard, be attentive with your nose. I don't believe that one of these things can heat to 1000 degrees without some smell. Also, pay attention to the feel of the clutch. If it changes from normal patterns, get it looked at. For example, mine (both JK and JL) feel a little different when cold than they do when they warm up. That's normal, and every manual I've ever owned is that way. But if I start to feel something that is not normal, I'll be investigating, for sure. But in 41k miles in all kinds of use, I've never felt anything unusual.

I don't know the exact mileage on mine when the recall was done, but it had to be around 36k or so. And the clutch passed the wear test twice. I really think if it had the problem, it would have shown up long before that. I think the vast, vast majority of these things are just fine. But they can't take the chance of any more winding up in flames, even after the first recall.

So I think the first recall was to address the original problem. The second is to address any that may not have been fixed or for say, one that was serviced and for whatever reason not bled properly.

I just hope that if the fix is indeed a program change, it only retards engine output if the overheating condition is detected, and otherwise drives normally. I just can't see how a reduction in output will resolve the problem on its own. There has to be something that warns you or makes you take it to the dealer, like a limp home mode, which would be a dramatic and unmistakable reduction in power. That's the solution that makes more sense, to me.

Conversely, if the power is reduced always, then you still won't know if you have the condition present and there would still be a risk of catastrophic failure because nothing would alert you to take it in. That would be a failed solution.

But I'm no expert and not an engineer. And I'm not 100% sure of the problem beyond piecing together bits and pieces of info and making an educated guess same as anyone else here. So I'm waiting to hear from FCA rather than two distinctly different explanations from NHTSA. Which is all we have right now. One of them deeply concerns me in several ways. The other makes perfect sense and I would welcome it. Hopefully FCA will shed more light on it soon and we'll know exactly how this works. NHTSA, btw, has virtually no accountability for being wrong.

 

[redrider]

Apples to Pears-When I started riding motorcycles, Nixon was a racer and all clutches were cable and lever. The Oriental units of the time were notoriously weak-just enough pressure and CoF for a stock engine. Stock was never enough performance soooo... Barnett friction plates and springs, Magura levers and more lever effort. The weaker humans complained. Hydraulics were adapted and the weaklings still complained about effort. Similar to mass hysteria. Now we have the original problem renewed-barely adequate component design. Easily fixed with aftermarket parts and strength training, just like Nixon.

 

[DanW]

Not trying to be a jerk - but this is really speculative. I would not be comfortable assuming that a warranty will be honored when running 37s, and I would want it in writing from my dealer's warraty department. I'm not one to defend the warranty department at any auto company, but I can see the argument that they are not responsible for damage done to the power train when running 37s. The heavier 37-inch tires weigh 90-100 pounds (just the tire, not including the wheel), while stock 33-inch tires weigh 55-65 pounds. I think if you move up to a 37 its on you to upgrade drive train components that will be impacted by the greater rotational mass of the bigger tire, its not on Jeep to pay to fix stuff you break. When it comes to 35s, that's a different story. As you point out, Jeep uses 35-inch tires in promotional material, so they need to stand behind their warranty for trucks running 35s (you can't market something and not back it - that's cheating).

Having said that, it seems like the manual transmission in the JT was under-built. Just my opinion here, but it seems like it should have a little higher torque rating, and a better clutch. Jeep should give folks the option of replacing the stock clutch with an aftermarket one (like a Centerforce clutch, for example), and they should split the cost of the upgrade with the customer: Jeep pays what it would cost them to replace the clutch with stock, and customer pays the difference. This may sound crazy to some folks, but I did something similar with an old Toyota truck at my local dealer (we split the cost of upgrading from crappy auto-hubs in a 1980s Toyota pickup to Warn manual locking hubs). Everyone left happy. I know this would never be Jeep policy, but if you have a good relationship with your dealer service department, its worth the conversation.

And I've noted that I'm speculating or making educated guesses. And I've noted that I am no expert. So no offense taken.

This is just a discussion and, news flash, it is an internet forum. If not for speculation, conversation would be reduced by about 90%. I think we are all just doing our best to try and understand what might be happening here, but without hearing from the people actually in the know who are working the problem.

But I've also had larger than stock tires on my YJ, JK, and JL and have had no warranty coverage issues to date. So it really is more of an educated guess than speculating. And I've been given no reason to believe they'd deny warranty work over it. I also believe it would be a tough sell when there is a known problem and zero notation of larger tires or gear ratios having squat to do with it.

I can't speak for the JT, but in the Wrangler, I don't believe that this transmission is under built in any way. I don't believe that is the problem. My belief is that problem is a defective procedure, parts, , or a combination of them. Hopefully, some light will be shed on it. But mine has driven normally and perfectly for 41k miles. If underbuilt, surely I would have broken it by now. I hope it stays that way and that this new recall is just an insurance policy and doesn't degrade performance unless the problem shows up.

There is also the possibility that they still have not fully identified the root cause of the heat buildup or that there may be more than one. So again, this recall appears to be a preventative move to mitigate a safety hazard.

We will see. But I assure you I am not an expert and am 100% speculating or making educated guesses. I'm also not an engineer or a lawyer. But I do have decades of experience with manual transmissions and Jeeps. So some things are educated guesses.

 

[jebiruph]

This recall is the realization that all clutches have the potential to slip, whether it's from normal wear, improper use or mechanical failure and something should be in place to mitigate the catastrophic failures that occur when the slipping clutch over heats.

 

[Rubi_Rhod]

It’s definitely under built. that’s why the “fix” is detune.
Stock power levels should not create enough slip of the friction material to generate so much heat, that it reaches critical temperatures of those parts to combustion or fragmentation.
I wish to see there was a bad run of something. But its in the recall. No parts broken, just too much power. That’s not appropriate.
To deregulate power means I’ll need to drop another gear, and have more revs to attempt to get the power needed, but the clutch is inadequate to hold it and propel it.
I’m glad centerforce is looking into something. But seems like something was designed this way, either to save costs, protect an undersized transmission, or...
Either way I’m not at all impressed by this response. And I drive my Jeep in exactly the way that seems to cause this to happen, not because I’m a sloppy driver, but terrain and use case dictates.
I haven’t even gotten my first oil change done yet. It’s too new for this kind of critical stuff to be happening.

 

[SelfmodJT]

Do recalls fall under lemon laws? This would be the 2nd attempt to fix for people that had a manual before the 1st recall right? After 3 attempts, buyback or replacement?

 

[AKDrifter]

I'm assuming this would potentially lower the tow rating of the vehicle as well. I'm juuuust about ready to call a lawyer. This is complete BS. I really don't want to hear what they have to say. If the vehicle cannot do the tasks it was sold as being capable of doing I will be suing. I'm assuming there is interest in going class action here. My only problem is to what end. I doubt they're going to develop a new transmission system. And I didn't want an automatic. So getting cash I don't really care about. I traded in the JK for the ability to tow a small camper. The camper I just bought is well below the specs of a manual JTR right now. If it turns out the tow ratings are lowered because of this it probably won't make the cut (its 3800lbs 390lbs hitch weight). I know they could give me an automatic and I'd be golden but I don't want the auto and Punk'n Gladiators are long gone. Pulling power or adding a limp mode are not going to cut it for me. I imagine pulling 4k pounds is only going to exacerbate the problem dramatically. I'm afraid I will be going the lawyer route sooner rather than later.

 

[tjbrown23]

I think everyone needs to take a moment and chill, if it was as bad as people are implying the NTSB and FCA would hault selling the manuals and notify people immediately. This stuff happens all the time, manufacturers don't anticipate the 0.1% of people that use their trucks the wrong way and have to program safeguards to limit stupidity. Shit happens, my last brand new vehicle had a rebuilt engine, 2 transmissions, fuel tank replacement, power steering issues and numerous reprogrammings for the transmission in 3 years.

 

[tjbrown23]

I think everyone needs to take a moment and chill, if it was as bad as people are implying the NTSB and FCA would hault selling the manuals and notify people immediately. This stuff happens all the time, manufacturers don't anticipate the 0.1% of people that use their trucks the wrong way and have to program safeguards to limit stupidity. Shit happens, my last brand new vehicle had a rebuilt engine, 2 transmissions, fuel tank replacement, power steering issues and numerous reprogrammings for the transmission in 3 years.

Before people jump down my throat they did put a stop sell order out for manual JTs hahahaha shit happens guys if we wanted reliability we should have bought a Tacoma. In the meantime drive slow and steady lol?

 

[JeepCares]

If you put in your vin# now at the recall website will it tell you if your jeep is recalled??? Or will it tell you in march??

You can check now at recalls.mopar.com.

Kaitlin
Jeep Cares

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