Max Tow Package. Not the value you would think?

[PyrPatriot]

Just tried on Jeep's website:
Sport S with only the hard top and Max Tow (and associated changes that come with that): $45,720

Rubicon with hard top, auto transmission, and tow package: $53,210

That is about a $7500 price difference. But as you said Rubicon has a bigger screen and I didnt see an option for an Alpine audio upgrade so does it come with that? Lets work on the presumption it does. Adding the 8.4 to the above Sport S means adding the technology and convenience group (cheapest route) bringing total to $49,605.
Now we are at $3605 difference, but how lame is it that for the bigger screen to make it "apples to apples" you have to have so many other unwanted add-ons?

When I got my Sport S Max Tow with Sting-Grey, cold weather, convenience group, alpine upgrade, and a decal sticker was $46,300. Now it would be $50,400. That is about a 9% increase and 15% more than what I actually paid

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[FLGladiator]

I am not trashing on Max Tow owners. I am wondering if Jeep's slow creep of price increases since I have started following have hit the 'middle trims' the most and eroded the value of the Max Tow (at least in a decently equipped Sport S configuration - see above for rundown of the 'minimal' $3,600 price difference to a Rubi/Mojave).

Thats what I mean, they realized how much value it had and had to raise the price accordingly. Aside from the inflation adjustments. Recently looking at at 22 buy sheet I see the max tow increased by almost 50%.

 

[ecidiego]

Adding parts can increase tow rating, legally.

Example:

Wife's Acura MDX rating was 350 tongue, 3500 tow per sticker.

Added Acura trans cooler, came with a sticker to place over the original one. 500 tongue, 5000 tow. Nothing but an OEM trans cooler was added. Same suspension and everything else.

The fear of criminal prosecution for having an extra Jerry can putting you 35lbs over rating is nonsense.

 

[Dartboy]

Speaking for myself, both the Rubicon and Mojave come with a whole lot of equipment that I'll never use, so why pay for it? This includes most of the options you added to the Sport to make the equipment levels match the standard equipment on the others. In addition, dealers like to load up the higher trims- there's a leftover '21 Rubi near me for just under $60K and it doesn't even have a hard top, I was out the door closer to $45K with a roof over my head

A moderately optioned Sport S with the Max Tow got me everything I needed, including the 4.10 axles that match nicely with the Rubicon upgrade wheels I bought off some poor sap who paid for them and then bought an aftermarket set

 

[PyrPatriot]

O

Adding parts can increase tow rating, legally.

Example:

Wife's Acura MDX rating was 350 tongue, 3500 tow per sticker.

Added Acura trans cooler, came with a sticker to place over the original one. 500 tongue, 5000 tow. Nothing but an OEM trans cooler was added. Same suspension and everything else.

The fear of criminal prosecution for having an extra Jerry can putting you 35lbs over rating is nonsense.

35lbs or even 100lbs? Yah may not be practical to worry. 500lbs (50%+) over?
You may not have the DOT going after you, but how about state level reckless driving? It's can be an easy charge to tack on. Or civil liabilities because by breaking one law/regulation (exceeding gvwr) you are under neglince per se liability

 

[The Duck of Earl]

O


35lbs or even 100lbs? Yah may not be practical to worry. 500lbs (50%+) over?
You may not have the DOT going after you, but how about state level reckless driving? It's can be an easy charge to tack on. Or civil liabilities because by breaking one law/regulation (exceeding gvwr) you are under neglince per se liability

I understand what you are technically saying (more than you know), but that doesn't mean you are practically right. The chances of running afoul even with 500 lbs over, is well, not much and you know this.

Or should I say, should know this? Saw this post of your's in the Post your payload pics! thread:

Post your payload pics!

Haven't counted the blocks, but a pallet can hold anywhere from 72 to 108 blocks, and a std. block weighs somewhere between 28 and 33lbs so even on the low end of that calculation, 72 X 28 = 2,016 pounds (*not including your ass, others, crap under your backseat, full tank of gas, etc. or your mods: rock rails, tonneau cover, bigger tires, new rims, etc.).

 

[Undecided]

I am in agreement the price increases have greatly eroded the benefits of the Max Tow package. When I ordered and compared all equal options to a Rubi - my price difference was about $7k.

I saw the value of the payload as key in my decision(we tow)**. Secondly that my off roading desire would make the Rubi excessive.

I considered reducing that price difference by removing wanted options from the Rubi. In the end I decided a more “fancy” sport s with max tow was my preference over a more simple but Rubi JT. Since the $7k price difference was out of my financial comfort zone. Despite how much I loved the idea of having a Rubi.

Today, if I was at your point with a $3k difference in price I believe I would have went for the Rubi. Tires alone were $1400, $100 for take off rails and I’m half way through.

Now though at these prices the JT very well could have been out of budget Entirely.


*adding - I know payload can be argued as is happening here but I wanted the payload so that I could just know my truck limits. I wasn’t worried about going over by 50lbs or whatever and getting a ticket. I simply preferred that I know what the truck could do out right and how much anything may or may not take me over the listed limit.

 

[PyrPatriot]

I understand what you are technically saying (more than you know), but that doesn't mean you are practically right. The chances of running afoul even with 500 lbs over, is well, not much and you know this.

Or should I say, should know this? Saw this post of your's in the Post your payload pics! thread:

Post your payload pics!

Haven't counted the blocks, but a pallet can holds anywhere from 72 to 108 blocks, and a std. block weighs somewhere between 28 and 33lbs so even on the low end of that calculation, 72 X 28 = 2,016 pounds (*not including your ass, others, crap under your backseat, full tank of gas, etc. or your mods: rock rails, tonneau cover, bigger tires, new rims, etc.).

That was not mine. Post said I found it.

I never claimed to be in the realm of practical applications. In fact my other thread shows just how much real-world weight these can take (under certain circumstances, mods and unknown detrimental effects) I am posting the cautionary points on legality for those who may not think of such considerations at first. Similarly to my Check Your Insurance thread. I would just feel aweful to reas that Jeep owner who Mr. Murphy visits and not only were they driving under conditions where their coverage didnt apply but also have charges brought by an overzealous prosecutor or unscrupulous lawyer more easily prove fault/negligence on an avoidable technicality

 

[Mac]

Adding parts can increase tow rating, legally.

Example:

Wife's Acura MDX rating was 350 tongue, 3500 tow per sticker.

Added Acura trans cooler, came with a sticker to place over the original one. 500 tongue, 5000 tow. Nothing but an OEM trans cooler was added. Same suspension and everything else.

The fear of criminal prosecution for having an extra Jerry can putting you 35lbs over rating is nonsense.

True but you cannot increase the GCWR or the GVWR which are different with different models and listed on the door of all vehicles.

 

[Rocksalt]

While playing around with the current Build & Price (I know this isn't 100% accurate - but good enough for this discussion) I wanted to get reactions and thoughts to some observations and questions. Honestly, I am still trying to settle on the specs for a custom order and this post is not meant to be a bash on one trim over another. (*All prices listed below are as of the date of the original post per Jeep.com).

First, I want to start by framing that this comparison relates solely to the Sport S Trim and the Max Tow Package vs the other trim options that offer the 4.10 gearing (I am really between the Sport S Max Tow and Mojave, but will include the Rubicon here as well). All builds below are in the color white without any additional selections made other than noted.

Second, for my purposes, I am not interested in the base Sport trim and it is not part of the below run-down. I will acknowledge that a bare bones Gladiator Sport with the Max Tow package can be selected for $40,625 versus the cheapest, *low options Mojave and Rubicon (except automatic trans ,since that is a prerequisite of Max Tow, and the Trailer-Tow Package, since well... figure that one out on your own...) which starts at $51,515 for both Rubi and Mojave. Now, while I understand the argument of the Sport buyers that you would not want to be 'forced' to pay for options you don't want or need, it is not fair to even compare the price difference between the base Sport Max Tow and the Rubicon/Mojave given all of the missing kit, let alone basic comforts and features standard on a <$15k Mitsubishi Mirage.

Also, I understand that there is a reduction in 'legal' payload and towing capacity - but with the Rubicon at 7K towing and Mojave at 6k in these baseline configurations, we are in the ballpark of what should be done with these mid-sized trucks anyway, as well as the fact (as will be explained more below) the smallish tires and lower ride height are something that many (and certainly me) change out / upgrade which while it would not be reflected on the door sticker - would lower the theoretical max GVWR and towing/payload.

The other point I want to make before jumping in is that this comparison is not meant to consider the person who would truly tear down the gladiator for a 'fully built' monster with 37" + tires, etc. and all that would entail. I would consider the max of any future upgrades being that middle ground of no more than 35" tires and retaining normal/stock wheels, driveshafts, steering unit, gears, etc, - all of which should be reasonably supported by either of the 3 baseline options without substantial mods.

On to the actual value comparison. So the starting point here is a Sport S Max Tow - which starts at $44,025. The Rubicon/Mojave baselines (criteria explained above) are $51,515, but this is not an apples-to-apples comparison. The Rubicon/Mojave include the 8.4-inch screen and other things which are not in the Sport S without adding the 8.4-Inch Radio and Premium Audio Group, Convenience Group, and Technology Group (must add all in the configurator) which brings the true price of the baseline comparison to $47,910 for the Sport S Max Tow with those options checked. This is a $3,605 difference between the Rubicon/Mojave and the Sport S Max Tow in the baseline comparisons (more thoughts on more fully optioned comparisons below).

Now - the big question is what all extras do you get in the Rubicon/Mojave for that $3,605 difference and is it worth it?

Please chime in on what I am missing here, but lets add in all of the 'extras'. Also, I acknowledge that the Max Tow does come with the LSD which is sub'd for the lockers below and the difference in springs - is there anything else that you would get on a Max Tow but not the comparable baseline Rubicon/Mojave? (Also, I am leaving off some of the purely cosmetic stuff like the red dash in the rubicon, red/oranage accents and sticking, and stickers/badges are those are subjective and aside from the 'look at me factor' minimal 'true' value difference):

For Rubicon: Front & Rear Electronic Lockers, Off Road +, disconnecting sway bars, lift, better shocks, 33" Tires and better rims, high clearance fenders, metal rear bumper and extra recovery hooks, vented/bulged hood, better seats, soft touch dash and door cards, lighted footwells, rock rails & bed sliders, Molle setbacks.

For Mojave: Rear Electronic Locker, Off Road +, lift, 33" Tires and better rims; high clearance fenders, different bumpers with extra recovery hooks, hood scoop hood, THAT SUSPENSION, cast iron knuckles, better seats, better steering wheel, soft touch dash and door cards, lighted footwells, rock rails, Molle setbacks.

Adding the stuff above up to me seems like well more than $3,605 worth of value. And judging by the seemingly majority of Max Tow owners on this forum who immediately (or shortly thereafter) replace at least the existing tires (which are puny and look awkward on the Gladiator period) and add something to at least cover the unsightly pinch seams under the doors, the delta is really far less...

Now apart from even the baseline comparisons outlined above, when you more fully option up the baseline Gladiators, a similar story unfolds, but the price difference grows a little bit. There are also some odd Jeep packaging idioms - like the fact that on the Sport S Max Tow - you can only get body colored fender flares when you add the LED light package (which really bothers me) and keep in mind you can only order the forward facing trail cam with the Rubi/Mojave (just not with the gloss black grill for whatever reason).

Curiously, when more fully optioning up the baselines (adding the following: Black Freedom 3-Piece Hard Top; Adaptive Cruise; Aux Switches; Cold Weather Group; Active Safety Group; LED Headlights; Trail Rail Management; Spray in Bedliner; Selec-Trac/Rock-Trac Full time) the price difference grows to $5,100 with $55,550 for the Sport S Max Tow and $60,450 for Rubi/Mojave (think this is due to the Popular Equipment Package on the Sport S which cuts a brake on the hard top given that we already added the Radio, Tech, and Convenience packages to the initial example).

The question would still remain, whether all of the 'extra' kit is worth it on the Rubi/Mojave? Clearly, it would be cost prohibitive from a value perspective to add all the features of Rubi/Mojave on a part-for-part basis to the Sport S Max Tow (for these purposes we have to include applicable labor charges as not everyone can DIY and even wrenching-it-yourself has lost opportunity costs that would need to factor in) - but what about just a Mopar lift, larger tires, and simple rock rails/sliders?

Even there just using example numbers, I think we are talking about $4k in 'upgrades' to the Sport S Max Tow to just get the stance of the truck similar.

Appreciate the thoughts.

longest dang post I have seen

 

[Gvsukids]

Are you sure about the footwells? I have heard that the Sport S when loaded up will have the 'convenience lighting' (turns on when doors open) vs the 'ambient' lighting (which is on at night and adjustable with the ambient light wheel. Maybe I am wrong and the Sport S has both?

My Max Tow has lighting in the front door handles at nighttime.

 

[FLGladiator]

Today, if I was at your point with a $3k difference in price I believe I would have went for the Rubi. Tires alone were $1400, $100 for take off rails and I’m half way through.

Most change out rims and tires on Rubi's as well.

 

[NachoRuby]

One thing:tow rating isn't on the door sticker, at all on gladiators.

 

[KVJ]

When I bought my JT in 2019 the max-tow package was $995.00. I tow a small camper and got it just to be sure. Best thing I did! I put on BFG K02s 33" and it pulls the camper on flat land in 8th gear. I average 19-21 MPG not towing in Ohio.

 

[Jeeperjamie]

Max Tow was a better option for me because I got most of what fit my needs and most of the Rubicon, Mojave stuff that i wanted, wide track axles and 4.10 gears. I can add lockers later and will eventually for $1200-$1500. I was out the door on mine at $37,125 and have about $4,000 in upgrades, tires, lift, bumpers and winch. Didn't make since for me to buy a Mojave or Rubicon to just turn around and strip all of it off. I like making my jeeps my own. Also I'm averaging 17.8 MPG in it on 37's

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