Both Batteries Dead 2020 Gladiator $898 to replace!?!???

[Hootbro]

Lot's of threads on it here.
Basically, when the small auxiliary battery goes, by the time you notice it's already taken out the main battery. While I'm sure the dealer also banged ya dry for list price on parts, there is a stupid amount of labor involved to change that aux battery. Especially at dealership labor rates. Take a look at where they shoved that thing. Basically your choices are take apart half the engine compartment, or remove the fender and go in that way.

What @IamPro2A said.

You are probably easily $400+ into the cost of dealer OEM battery pricing and the rest would be dealer shop rate labor pricing. So $898 would not be unexpected. Sucks, but it is what it is.

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[Mister Lamb]

I know I’m not answering your questions, but: At that price you could swap in a dual battery system + two group 25 batteries. Been running this setup for a couple years now.

Way easier to work with than the stock system and the second battery can act like a built in jump, while taking the load of any accessories.

This is a great solution to the terrible AUX battery. Just sucks for anyone with extended warranty as it would void the entire electrical system which is probably the biggest $$$.


edit: turns out I am wrong.
From Genesis Off-road in JL forum:

"Just a quick note about the warranty question. We cannot speak for your local dealership's policies, but I can at least tell you that in 10 years of making our dual battery systems, we have not had a single customer call us to report any cases of a dealership denying a warranty claim simply due to having our dual battery kit installed.

As mentioned before, a dealer has to prove that the modification caused the problem. Essentially all we are doing is giving you additional battery capacity (with some additional bells and whistles). Yes, we move the positive wire from the small aux battery up to the positive post of the main cranking battery, but that by itself will not cause any problems that can lead to a warranty claim.

It is still possible to have an improper installation that leads to a problem, such as a pinched wire, allowing a wire to be too close to the exhaust, or whatever, but the same thing could be said for any other type of modification as well.

My point here is don't let worries about your warranty stop you from using the benefits that our dual battery system provides.

Oh, and we have kits in stock and ship same day!
-Shane"

 

[PyrPatriot]

This is a great solution to the terrible AUX battery. Just sucks for anyone with extended warranty as it would void the entire electrical system which is probably the biggest $$$.

I had not considered that. I wonder if my Geico Mechanical Breakdown Insurance (which covers electrical) would be voided in part by a new battery system...

Can you still run the aux battery with a dual battery setup?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Not sure on an original battery but a replacement would have a depreciating value meaning that if it's a 5 year battery, you should get 3 years value back (or whatever their formula is). The warranty will only cover the battery and not the labor to replace it.

The new batteries are moving away from lead acid to save weight. The new ones, I believe are lithium ion and they are very expensive.

AGM is OEM on these.
LI batteries charge differently and may take some tweaking in the PCM to charge them correctly. Even my battery charger warns that it's fine for flooded cells, AGM, and some lithium batteries, but not all and warns against even trying the others. AGM is very specific in how it must be charged and maintained.
I'm sure there are those making the swap out there, but if it's using the same programming designed to be ideal for AGM, it won't be ideal for others.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

This is a great solution to the terrible AUX battery. Just sucks for anyone with extended warranty as it would void the entire electrical system which is probably the biggest $$$.

Why would it? The dual battery configuration is only for ESS. It has nothing to do with the rest of the electrical system. The PCM is still tracking via the IBS - every mA that goes in, every mA that comes out, and detects SoC and adjusts alternator output accordingly.
I'd like to see them try to void my radio or lighting warranties, over a battery configuration change.

 

[Mister Lamb]

I had not considered that. I wonder if my Geico Mechanical Breakdown Insurance (which covers electrical) would be voided in part by a new battery system...

Can you still run the aux battery with a dual battery setup?

I'm almost positive it would be voided. And no the dual battery setup deletes the AUX battery. For anyone not with extended warranty it's the first mod I recommend post 36k miles/3 years. Really just a factor for extended warranty holders.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I disconnect the negative of the main battery before disconnecting the fender ground cable. I had a no start condition. I wondered if the IBS just thought the main battery was dead due to the way it was disconnected. Never had that issue again by only disconnecting the fender ground.

Jeep did have a chip shortage like everyone else? Maybe the ECMs they put in are bad. I hate it that they blamed the issue on your modifications.

Reset the IBS by taking it off the crank battery neg terminal and removing the cable from the aux battery from the top of the IBS. I find it easier just to remove the IBS, set it aside for 5 or 10 minutes, then put it back together. It's then reset and takes a normal start cycle (not remote start, you getting in and starting and driving it a while) to re-learn.
Mine did a ton better after the IBS reset. I found the tech documentation on how all that works.
It didn't do anything for the massive battery drain these have when sitting! But things work a lot better now.

 

[Mister Lamb]

Why would it? The dual battery configuration is only for ESS. It has nothing to do with the rest of the electrical system. The PCM is still tracking via the IBS - every mA that goes in, every mA that comes out, and detects SoC and adjusts alternator output accordingly.
I'd like to see them try to void my radio or lighting warranties, over a battery configuration change.

If suspension warranty work is voided for simple lifts, I doubt removing the factory's integral battery and replacing how the electrical system charges will be allowed. Super easy to find out.. Plenty of Mopar warranty vendors on here. I'm just willing to wager a void to anything electric-related.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

If suspension warranty work is voided for simple lifts, I doubt removing the factory's integral battery and replacing how the electrical system charges will be allowed. Super easy to find out.. Plenty of Mopar warranty vendors on here. I'm just willing to wager a void to anything electric-related.

Suspension warranty is not voided, especially for MOPAR lifts. The dealers flat out told me the only warranty that no longer applies is the warranty on the parts that were replaced.
If my headlights acted funky and I had changed to a single battery system, they must warrant the headlights unless they can prove my battery change broke the LED headlights. Good luck with that since the voltage to each light is regulated to a specific setting. (and it's monitored -see below)
If I changed lighting systems, then yes, I am no longer running stock lighting and there's no warranty, but unless they can show that going to a pair of batteries wired in parallel, running the same voltages blew out the headlights, they must be covered and would be.
Otherwise anyone replacing a battery with a correct replacement on their own would void their electrical system warranty.
Dealer told me flat out - the only change to warranty with a lift is to those parts that were replaced. But if it's a MOPAR lift, those are covered like original.
I installed my MOPAR trailer brake controller, but they told me that they were responsible for making sure it all worked together. And - the brake controller would be covered with the rest of the truck for as long as the truck had warranty - in short, the trailer brake controller installed on my truck inherited the truck's warranty.
I covered some of these same things talking to the service manager and sales guy when talking trades - they had no fears of any changes or any work I had done. If I have a shock go bad or a spring break, they're mopar, even if not original to my truck, and will be covered.

I'm afraid they'd be arguing with an atypical customer if they tried to deny electrical system coverage for a basic battery change. I've caught techs before in fudging and sent them off scratching their heads after giving them detailed information on exactly what to look for - and not to look for.

Left Side DRL Voltage Target: 11.0 V
Right Side DRL Voltage Target: 11.0 V
Left Low Beam Voltage Regulation: 13.4 V
Left High Beam Voltage Regulation: 13.4 V
Right Low Beam Voltage Regulation: 13.2 V
Right High Beam Voltage Regulation: 13.2 V
Left Front Corner Voltage: 13.4 V
Right Front Corner Voltage: 13.4 V
Left Rear Corner Voltage: 13.6 V
Right Rear Corner Voltage: 13.6 V

Unless for some reason I couldn't get the details out, I'd have 'em.

 

[SelfmodJT]

Interesting. I am at over 55k miles and almost always turn off the ESS system by pushing the button. No issues YET but am wanting to go over to a Genysis system before my battery dies on a trail. Any estimate to cost of parts? I would try to install myself.

ETA: looks like about $1350 for the kit plus two 25 group batteries shipped to me from their website.

Idk why people make such a huge fuss over the ESS? Trying to figure out how or buy parts to disable it, I have a manual so I hate the ESS too but I just push the off button the first time it does it. Atleast I know its working everytime I use the jeep and it takes 1 sec to push the button. Maybe I could make up that 1 sec lost by not waving at the next jeep ?

 

[Mister Lamb]

Suspension warranty is not voided, especially for MOPAR lifts. The dealers flat out told me the only warranty that no longer applies is the warranty on the parts that were replaced.
If my headlights acted funky and I had changed to a single battery system, they must warrant the headlights unless they can prove my battery change broke the LED headlights. Good luck with that since the voltage to each light is regulated to a specific setting.
If I changed lighting systems, then yes, I am no longer running stock lighting and there's no warranty, but unless they can show that going to a pair of batteries wired in parallel, running the same voltages blew out the headlights, they must be covered and would be.
Otherwise anyone replacing a battery with a correct replacement on their own would void their electrical system warranty.
Dealer told me flat out - the only change to warranty with a lift is to those parts that were replaced. But if it's a MOPAR lift, those are covered like original.
I installed my MOPAR trailer brake controller, but they told me that they were responsible for making sure it all worked together. And - the brake controller would be covered with the rest of the truck for as long as the truck had warranty - in short, the trailer brake controller installed on my truck inherited the truck's warranty.
I covered some of these same things talking to the service manager and sales guy when talking trades - they had no fears of any changes or any work I had done. If I have a shock go bad or a spring break, they're mopar, even if not original to my truck, and will be covered.

When users on this forum are dealing with lawsuits for simply changing their tranny fluid whilst following Owners Manual specs, I don't have faith in FCA honoring mods to anything electrical, especially with non-MOPAR kits. I agree that it shouldn't be voided based on the upgrade alone but I just lack faith in the warranty process. Any issue with ESS at a minimum would be voided which I'm sure is not a cheap fix. I asked Grange Motors who recently offered cheap Mopar warranty. Curious what they think.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

When users on this forum are dealing with lawsuits for simply changing their tranny fluid whilst following Owners Manual specs, I don't have faith in FCA honoring mods to anything electrical, especially with non-MOPAR kits. I agree that it shouldn't be voided based on the upgrade alone but I just lack faith in the warranty process. Any issue with ESS at a minimum would be voided which I'm sure is not a cheap fix. I asked Grange Motors who recently offered cheap Mopar warranty. Curious what they think.

I understand your frustration (and that may be putting it lightly) seeing what others are going through. As far as that transmission - don't lose faith. That book is still being written ;-)

Granger motors are good folks and they'll hopefully cut through the bulk of the wherefores and hereafters (hopefully the the legal triple-talk stuff can be translated to English)

I have no reason to change to a dual-battery setup, I'll keep doing what I do - sense how the vehicle is behaving, looking for clues, checking warnings, messages, like I always do for anything I own or drive or work on.
To me the biggest issue is the lack of battery capacity for the amount of drain on the system when it's sitting.
They have a problem with draw and the system not charging these batteries hard enough in the right sequence for AGM. Why they run a max of 14.6 or so on a battery that's only 40% charged is interesting - and the fact the IBS only senses what goes into and out of the crank battery and not the aux or system battery? Weird. The aux battery could be sitting in trouble and its condition not fully known for who knows how long. Yes, a low aux battery should present as a load on the crank battery and the IBS should see more than normal amperage coming out of the crank battery during certain operations, but I think their programming leaves a few holes, a bit to be desired.

 

[Kindafearless]

Everyone’s risk threshold is different, but I think the warranty thing really comes down to how much of a jerk the service manager is.

I recently took my truck in for a fix after a fairly catastrophic failure on the road (oil cooler blew) and the place I took it didn’t bat an eye to fix it. Now, they had every excuse to deny my fix. My truck has been modified in just about every way. It’s clear I didn’t do anything to screw with that silly plastic oil cooler, though.

On the other hand, this forum is filled with folks that have gone to great effort to not void their warranty and get denied for silly unrelated reasons

Opinion: If something breaks, I replace with something better if I can afford it. I’d much rather prevent something from breaking in the future, than riding on faith that some random guy at a dealership is going to agree to fix it for me.

 

[whightealtitude]

Turned off ESS all the time with my Tazer. Will that negatively affect the life of my batteries?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Turned off ESS all the time with my Tazer. Will that negatively affect the life of my batteries?

No impact. The worst that would happen is the aux battery not get used during ESS shutdowns.
The point of AGM is that they can more than handle the rigors of what's thrown at them. They are used in solar installations, deep cycle marine applications and other applications that require a battery type that charges quickly and can handle a lot of up and down use.
My gut tells me it's the drain when sitting in the garage, or the PCM not keeping the SoC up.

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