Dealer overfilled oil

[ShadowsPapa]

Changed the oil in the Subaru a few minutes ago and found the note I left for myself.

Yup - been down that road - when you have so many vehicles, and have 3 different filters on hand, and now was this the one with the 3/4 drain or was that the other car?

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[Lunentucker]

 

[redriderjf87]

Changed the oil in the Subaru a few minutes ago and found the note I left for myself.

Haha nice, I'm going to shamelessly steal that idea.

 

[ReverendZ]

Shocked it's not being done as a long block - most shops don't really know much about engine rebuilds - and frankly, it's been that way for years because you can buy a "reman" engine, or a long block, for a fraction of the cost in labor and parts.
I can't imagine a dealer shop going through and checking every shaft, every cylinder, with a micrometer....... just isn't going to happen. A real engine rebuild takes a lot of time - most of that time is checking parts, clearances and noting measurements. It's not the time taken to zip bolts out and in. It's the details that take the time. Heck, I run white pipe cleaners through all oil galleries in every engine I do and it had better come out about as white as it went in. Every passage is checked. Every ring is fit to the cylinder then to the piston.

I honestly can't understand either. It really should have been addressed when I first started hearing the issue, not 6 months later. If they rebuild it in the frame they will be keeping it.
I wish I had a good service team like @ShadowsPapa

 

[Lost1wing]

Changed the oil in the Subaru a few minutes ago and found the note I left for myself.

I need to do that! I have several different vehicles that I do the oil changes on. I did change all of them to a 16mm with the exception of the Gladiator. All the filters housing are different still. I keep a notepad with the routine part numbers and tool sizes.

 

[Lost1wing]

I believe this is nothing even close to a warranty claim. If I did my own oil change and over filled it, the dealer would definitely deny a warranty claim. I believe you have the say on how this is getting fixed. I sure hope they put you in a new Jeep comparable to the one they roasted.

Good luck friend!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I believe this is nothing even close to a warranty claim. If I did my own oil change and over filled it, the dealer would definitely deny a warranty claim. I believe you have the say on how this is getting fixed. I sure hope they put you in a new Jeep comparable to the one they roasted.

Good luck friend!

Problem is that 6 quarts won't roast these. If it did, you'd have thousands of failures across the country.
How many people who buy new Gladiators take theirs in for the WAVE service and not check the oil until several hundred miles have passed?
Does anyone here really truly believe that when 6 quarts is put in, it's caught by even half of the owners?
No way. The typical buyer will be using it, taking it in for service, and not checking the oil until hundreds if not a thousand miles later.
Only forum members, and then not even all, would actually get in their JT after a wave service and immediately check the oil.
If it were to roast engines, why not mine? Why not everyone's that have had 6 quarts put in. How many JT owners have had the 3.6 for years and just automatically put 6 quarts in like they did all of their other Jeeps?
Naw, 6 isn't roasting engines or every dealership in the nation would be replacing engines over it.

 

[Lost1wing]

No, I agree that one quart over shouldn't hurt anything. I don't thing it is a good idea though to leave it that way until the next change interval. That is why we check the level even after we put the correct amount in. I an owner checks the level on the dipstick and it is above the full mark, they could assume all is good , the dealer filled it. Yet some of us will drain it to the correct level. Why would we drain it to the correct level if it wouldn't harm anything? Will the crankcase pressure be affected? Will it cause leaks? An overfill condition for a possible 18,000 miles or so , Do these crankshaft counter balances splash in oil? I'm asking.

 

[ReverendZ]

@ShadowsPapa and @Lost1wing, I would agree, 6 qts would probably have not been an issue, 7qts may have been an issue, 7qts plus, which is what I encountered, probably contributed to the metal chunks and subsequent noises based on previous personal experience. Me being me, still have the excessive amount of oil from the day I found it in my engine.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

No, I agree that one quart over shouldn't hurt anything. I don't thing it is a good idea though to leave it that way until the next change interval. That is why we check the level even after we put the correct amount in. I an owner checks the level on the dipstick and it is above the full mark, they could assume all is good , the dealer filled it. Yet some of us will drain it to the correct level. Why would we drain it to the correct level if it wouldn't harm anything? Will the crankcase pressure be affected? Will it cause leaks? An overfill condition for a possible 18,000 miles or so , Do these crankshaft counter balances splash in oil? I'm asking.

Jeep owners - some of them - are really picky and assume.
It can't impact the pressure, that's controlled by the PCV system and should run a vacuum. The oil has no impact on the pressure.
Won't cause leaks. Again, normally the crankcase runs a vacuum thanks to the PCV system (old-school drag racers will often use a vacuum pump on their old V8 engines to maintain vacuum in the crankcase due to the cam. They've removed the PCV system. My 73 runs terribly low vacuum at idle, barely keeps the brake booster purged of air)
If these were prone to destruction due to 1 quart of extra oil, we've be seeing thousands of complaints out there. Again, because many forum people check their oil after a dealer visit due to the comments they've seen about some dealers over-filling them but the typical JT owners simply takes it out and drives it. So you know that most of these just get driven and not checked until later.
It's pure logic.
People here are DIYers, or have read on fakebook or forums about the JT taking less oil and the dealers not having caught up yet. So, they check and gasp - it's over-filled! The sky has fallen.
What about all of those out there who use the Jeep wave service and just assume like always that it's done correctly according to NEW specs. How many JT owners even KNOW about the capacity change? Look at the forum posts, hell, most forum members have never looked at the owners manual! Ya think non-forum members bother to look if they have the dealer do the work?
Mine wasn't damaged.
I took mine home after that first wave oil change and only later checked it as I was going to keep tabs on fluid use and any oil use/consumption. I am not a slow driver. I wind my engines up. I routinely hit 4,000-4,500 RPM, pretty much every time I take it out. For one thing, it's hilly here and to get onto the highway from the ramps, it's a pedal down experience to get up to speed. And the thing doesn't leave 4th for a half mile in most cases, sometimes longer. So mine are routinely wound up. And yet - no damage. I put over 20,000 more miles on that engine after that. (I did eventually drive it back to the dealer and let them know - hey, ya goofed, and they did another free change of oil and filter on it). No tick, no glitter, no misfire, no issues at all with that engine - and yet I had driven it at highway speeds and high RPM with 6 quarts in it.
Again - how many have JTs and the dealer put too much oil in them - and the owner is an IT person or a banker or a phone store clerk and they don't check their oil right after the dealer changes it? Most JT owners. Only forum and internet hanger-outers know of this and even then, look at the members here who never open a book so don't realize.

7 quarts is where we hit the ???? question mark area. But then what the heck - how could they do that since their oil dispensers have a read-out and some even allow the user to set the number of quarts - and when it hits that amount, it stops?
I can't think of any Jeep vehicle that would take 7 quarts. (what's the diesel take?? - I'm talking gas engines. Guess I could look in the book LOL!)
7 quarts is a - what the heck were you thinking - thing. Did you ignore the meter? Did you set it wrong? Were you texting while doing the service in the shop?

I wish I could find one of these engines disassembled. I would literally take the block, pan, windage tray, etc. and put 7 quarts of liquid in it and see where it lands. (if I recall correctly, the filter doesn't actually take a FULL 32 ounces)

 

[Lost1wing]

I don't know about that. I still think 6 qts is enough to splash the oil around causing more oil vapor or foam up the oil. Maybe it will be okay for a short duration, but it can't be good for continued use.

On another note, my brother worked for a Jiffy Lube a while back. His first oil change he performed the top half, which was to check other fluid levels, air filter and such. He asked the guy below how much oil to put in. He was told until it shows full on the dip stick. At engine start he said oil was going everywhere and the engine was knocking very loud. The service tech from down below had him shut it off. My brother told him that the oil came out of the dip stick tube. They determined that my brother was an idiot and that he over serviced it. The tech drained it all and serviced it himself with my brother watching. It still knocked for a few seconds at restart but the customer drove away.

Stories like this are just reminders why I change my own oil.

6 or 7 quarts, may not affect the crankcase pressure immediately but oil vapor may increase enough, that the pcv system is compromised causing leaks. My daughters renegade had a bad pcv due to the wrong free oil the dealer had put in. I checked the oil when my daughter came to visit. It was low and she stated it was just changed prior to her trip. Dealer reciept showed 5 quarts 5w30 not even rated for a turbo car. It only takes 4 quarts btw. When she returned to the dealer to question them they replied that the free oil change only includes there standard oil. I got involved and the dealer did another oil change with the correct oil. Since then, I've changed sparkplug tube gaskets at both ends, pcv box gaskets and the failed pcv. Oil vapor and crankcase pressure increase was caused by either the over service by 1 quart or the non turbo rated oil. My guess anyhow.

 

[ReverendZ]

Jeep owners - some of them - are really picky and assume.
It can't impact the pressure, that's controlled by the PCV system and should run a vacuum. The oil has no impact on the pressure.
Won't cause leaks. Again, normally the crankcase runs a vacuum thanks to the PCV system (old-school drag racers will often use a vacuum pump on their old V8 engines to maintain vacuum in the crankcase due to the cam. They've removed the PCV system. My 73 runs terribly low vacuum at idle, barely keeps the brake booster purged of air)
If these were prone to destruction due to 1 quart of extra oil, we've be seeing thousands of complaints out there. Again, because many forum people check their oil after a dealer visit due to the comments they've seen about some dealers over-filling them but the typical JT owners simply takes it out and drives it. So you know that most of these just get driven and not checked until later.
It's pure logic.
People here are DIYers, or have read on fakebook or forums about the JT taking less oil and the dealers not having caught up yet. So, they check and gasp - it's over-filled! The sky has fallen.
What about all of those out there who use the Jeep wave service and just assume like always that it's done correctly according to NEW specs. How many JT owners even KNOW about the capacity change? Look at the forum posts, hell, most forum members have never looked at the owners manual! Ya think non-forum members bother to look if they have the dealer do the work?
Mine wasn't damaged.
I took mine home after that first wave oil change and only later checked it as I was going to keep tabs on fluid use and any oil use/consumption. I am not a slow driver. I wind my engines up. I routinely hit 4,000-4,500 RPM, pretty much every time I take it out. For one thing, it's hilly here and to get onto the highway from the ramps, it's a pedal down experience to get up to speed. And the thing doesn't leave 4th for a half mile in most cases, sometimes longer. So mine are routinely wound up. And yet - no damage. I put over 20,000 more miles on that engine after that. (I did eventually drive it back to the dealer and let them know - hey, ya goofed, and they did another free change of oil and filter on it). No tick, no glitter, no misfire, no issues at all with that engine - and yet I had driven it at highway speeds and high RPM with 6 quarts in it.
Again - how many have JTs and the dealer put too much oil in them - and the owner is an IT person or a banker or a phone store clerk and they don't check their oil right after the dealer changes it? Most JT owners. Only forum and internet hanger-outers know of this and even then, look at the members here who never open a book so don't realize.

7 quarts is where we hit the ???? question mark area. But then what the heck - how could they do that since their oil dispensers have a read-out and some even allow the user to set the number of quarts - and when it hits that amount, it stops?
I can't think of any Jeep vehicle that would take 7 quarts. (what's the diesel take?? - I'm talking gas engines. Guess I could look in the book LOL!)
7 quarts is a - what the heck were you thinking - thing. Did you ignore the meter? Did you set it wrong? Were you texting while doing the service in the shop?

I wish I could find one of these engines disassembled. I would literally take the block, pan, windage tray, etc. and put 7 quarts of liquid in it and see where it lands. (if I recall correctly, the filter doesn't actually take a FULL 32 ounces)

I did directly ask the dealer when I first encountered this if they set their gun incorrectly, their response was that they don't use a lube dispensing system but instead a bulk tank with oil jug/funnels. So yes, inattentive or untrained personnel is the main culprit in this instance.

 

[Vtur]

Since my first car, I performed all my own maintenance except for provided company trucks. Everytimes i see Jiffylube filling it with the nozzle makes me cringed. Twice i've had them drained some due to overfilled. A few times they even tried to sells me 0w-20 full synthetic option, even though all 0w-20 are fully synthetic

 

[Rusty PW]

One of the articles I found about too much oil inside of the engine. They all say the samething.

How Too Much Oil Affects Your Car:
Engine oil is essential, but it's possible to overfill engine oil. That can create the opposite effect of having the correct amount of added oil and some similar effects to having too little oil in the engine.

Even though that sounds counterintuitive, there are six main issues caused by excessive engine oil. Here they are:

Oil Froth:
Oil froth occurs when you add too much oil to the engine, the maximum oil level surpasses the top of the oil pan, and it starts filling the crankcase. The crankcase houses the crankshaft to which the bottom of each connecting rod is attached. The crankshaft is lobed, which allows the connecting rods and pistons to move up and down as it spins.

When too much oil fills the oil pan, these lobes aerate the oil, causing it to foam. As foamy oil circulates through the necessary engine parts, the trapped air allows engine overheating as the oil can't consistently reach each piece all the time. It can also no longer assist the coolant in dissipating heat optimally.

Excess Oil Pressure:
Engines already function with massive amounts of internal pressure. Overfilling oil only serves to increase the oil pressure within the engine. A short-lived, temporary increase in internal engine pressures may not damage much, but it can cause premature part wear and leaks over time.

Oil Leaks:
Oil leaks are not necessarily a result of excessive amounts of oil sitting in an engine but rather from excessive internal oil pressure over time. An engine is made of many moving parts, and these parts must be connected somehow. Leaks occur when the gaskets, seals, clamps, and connectors are eventually pushed beyond their limits.

Common places for oil leaks include the oil filter housing, valve cover gasket, oil pan gasket, oil pump, and even the turbocharger — if your car has one. Oil can even leak into the engine's combustion chamber via the spark plug o-rings or valve guide seals, leading to additional issues.

Burning Oil:
Burning oil comes from oil leaking into the engine and igniting with the air-fuel mixture. It can happen because of the domino effect triggered by excessive oil pressure. Even though oil can burn, it's not supposed to be injected into the combustion chamber like fuel. So if it's burning when it goes into the combustion chamber, there's a problem.

The telltale sign of an engine burning oil is blue smoke exiting through the tailpipe. It's often accompanied by the distinctive smell of oil, both inside and outside the vehicle. Oil can enter the engine through vulnerable seals, gaskets, and weak points where moving parts slide across various surfaces, including the spark plugs, pistons, and even the head gasket.

Head gasket failures are a cause for serious concern, and they are not cheap to repair. Fortunately, leaking spark plug o-rings are much more common than oil leaks through the head gasket. More telling signs of head gasket failure include engine overheating and white smoke exiting the exhaust pipe because of burning coolant.

Misfires:
Misfires occur when something prevents or delays proper air-fuel combustion within one or more of the combustion chambers. The combustion chamber is the space between the top of the piston and the cylinder head where combustion occurs. An engine needs air, fuel, and spark for proper combustion to occur.

As it relates to engine oil, the lack of spark is the most common reason for misfires as oil leaks onto the spark plug and prevents it from firing. It effectively "drowns out" the ignition source. A large leak, regardless of whether or not it is coming from the spark plug o-ring, can have the same effect by overwhelming the combustion chamber with too much fluid.

Clogged Catalytic Converters:
Catalytic converters help neutralize harmful exhaust gases exiting the engine before being expelled through the exhaust pipe. They are made from precious, expensive metals and contain a honeycomb-like structure through which exhaust gases pass. Unfortunately, unburned oil that does make it through the engine can build up within the honeycomb structures of the catalytic converters, causing them to fail.

Whereas replacement spark plugs and even a replacement valve cover gasket are relatively inexpensive fixes, catalytic converters are very expensive because of their composition. Labor costs are not usually that bad, but a replacement catalytic converter can cost upwards of $2,000

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Since my first car, I performed all my own maintenance except for provided company trucks. Everytimes i see Jiffylube filling it with the nozzle makes me cringed. Twice i've had them drained some due to overfilled. A few times they even tried to sells me 0w-20 full synthetic option, even though all 0w-20 are fully synthetic

Not all is full. Some is partial synthetic. It must be partial or full but there's a lot of partial out there.

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