Pentastar power increase

[Zachanadandy]

And I was referring to this part of your post - it's not going to eat seals or pull water in (unless you buy from crappy stations and leave it sitting for months at a time).
I have run it (in other vehicles), nothing terrifying about it.

If I end up supercharging the Jeep it would be even more difficult to not go E85. Much safer than running the crap 91 octane west coast premium in a boosted application in my research. The problem there is you'd likely be into a custom tuning situation.

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[Flyin6]

It's not going to hurt or eat anything. These just weren't tuned for it.
As I recall, it was among the plans way back to make it flex fuel but it never happened.
It does make more power IF the system is tuned to adapt to it.
I ran it in my Silverado when towing and I could actually feel the difference.
Can't recall what the book said it did, but it was a fair amount of HP more.
MPG was down some but not horribly.
The dealer where I bought that truck from kept an excel spreadsheet and he'd plug in the price per gallon of 10% vs. E85 and had the mpg differences plugged in and he could quickly tell if there was any advantage cost per mile wise depending on the price spread.
Sometimes there was a good advantage, sometimes it was a wash. But I used it when towing because of the extra power.
State owned vehicles when I worked for them were all flex fuel and they pretty much insisted you use E85 in them. I got used to the power and mpg differences in those cars and vans doing remote network work.

E85 will burn cooler and cleaner and because of the octane, the engine can be pushed beyond the limits of lower octane, hotter running gasoline. Running cooler in itself helps prevent detonation.
On the flip side - change your oil more often. If you do 5,000 miles now, do 4,000 with E85, just for example numbers.

My Suburban on a complete custom tune and wizardry, has an E85 sensor that turns on a different set of fuel and timing tables when that fuel is used. I recall the tuner telling me I had a horsepower potential north of 600 on E85 according to his Mustang dyno pulls. He did some with pump 93 and some with the E85. Different animal mine being supercharged and all
But with me being a child of boosted and tuned thinking, I naturally am going that way with this little V6 motor.

This brings up a dumb question: For the guy who buys all his fuel from either Costco or Farm supply, where does one purchase E85?

 

[Flyin6]

It takes a bit of time for the PCM to adjust the long term trim tables so you won't put in 93 and drive 2 blocks and feel anything different.
The resulting octane of a mix of gasolines will vary depending on how they obtained that octane rating.
I run E15 a lot - it's a bunch cheaper here than 10% and runs great and I've noticed zero difference in mpg. ISU studies have shown over time that you won't see a difference between 10 and 15% - the difference is between 0 and 10%.
But then again, mine runs great on 87 10%, too, never had any issues with any fuel I run in it. I do wish the tune could handle E85. There's lines in the system indicating these share a lot with flex fuel FCA vehicles. They just never tuned for it.
The more I see you guys talk of tunes and being able to run E85 and getting even a bit more makes me watch and think - I do tow and it's hilly as hell here. That's where it would be nice.
OTOH, it would have to be cheap as I'm really pretty happy with it as is.

Hmmm a chink in the armor...
Only takes one small crack for the dam to fail... ;-)

 

[Flyin6]

Just got a reply from VCM Performance in Australia:


Joshua Clayton (VCM Performance)

6 Dec 2023, 4:30 pm GMT+11

Hello Don,

Thank you for contacting VCM!

Unfortunately we can not unlock GPEC5 ECM at this time. I'm not sure what video you are referring to with this information, but it is incorrect.

We are in the same boat as everybody else.

If you do come across any information about unlocking the GPEC5 ECM's we would love to hear about it.

Sorry I could not give you some better news.

Kind regards,

Josh.
VCM Performance Support Team.


BTW, I got the same info from Hunter at Livernois. I find it cool that everyone in the aftermarket world seems to be aware of each other's activities.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

My Suburban on a complete custom tune and wizardry, has an E85 sensor that turns on a different set of fuel and timing tables when that fuel is used. I recall the tuner telling me I had a horsepower potential north of 600 on E85 according to his Mustang dyno pulls. He did some with pump 93 and some with the E85. Different animal mine being supercharged and all
But with me being a child of boosted and tuned thinking, I naturally am going that way with this little V6 motor.

This brings up a dumb question: For the guy who buys all his fuel from either Costco or Farm supply, where does one purchase E85?

Where to buy E85:

https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/ethanol_locations.html#/find/nearest?fuel=E85

 

[Alpine Warthog]

SO dumb question here, but my JT gas door specifically says no E-85. I always thought it was weird since my Silverado and Burban are both flex fuel e-85. I avoided it since my mileage always dropped on it.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Hmmm a chink in the armor...
Only takes one small crack for the dam to fail... ;-)

One little problem here - GPEC5............

This brings up a dumb question: For the guy who buys all his fuel from either Costco or Farm supply, where does one purchase E85?

Several stations here sell it.

This is Iowa - these are where it and other blends are sold -

This is just within 25km of me -

Pretty much most KwikStar and Kum & Go stations have it.

And of course before I retired - this is where I was required to fuel government cars when returning from trips to the field offices. The problem was, some of those far away, like up in the NE corner of the state - there weren't many gas stations that sold E85.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

SO dumb question here, but my JT gas door specifically says no E-85. I always thought it was weird since my Silverado and Burban are both flex fuel e-85. I avoided it since my mileage always dropped on it.

It's not tuned for it.
The Chevies were - I noted some loss of mpg but depending on the price spreads, it could often still be cheaper to use and I liked the extra power when towing.
Don't use it in Jeep Wrangler, Grand Cherokee, Gladiator, etc. - not sure if any of their other engines are ok with it.

This is a log from a 2021 WK2 we had - and one reason I suggest they were either "planning on it" or these share certain aspects with other FCA vehicles that DO run E85 - if any exist.
Check these lines and setting possibilities -

Low Ethanol PWR Enrich Flag: No
Low Ethanol Therm Management Flag: No
Ethanol Gas For Sure: No
Ethanol Mode: No
Ethanol - 0% Blend Direction: No
Ethanol - 85% Blend Direction: No
Ethanol - Open Loop Fuelling: No
Ethanol Fine Tune Complete Previous: No
Ethanol Fuel Volume Changed: No
Ethanol Low Fuel: No
Ethanol Trigger On Fuel Volume Fault: No
Ethanol Trigger During Learn: No
Ethanol Learn: Disabled
Ethanol Course Update Ready to Learn: No
Ethanol Course Update: Not completed
Ethanol Fine Tune: Not completed

 

[Alpine Warthog]

It's not tuned for it.
The Chevies were - I noted some loss of mpg but depending on the price spreads, it could often still be cheaper to use and I liked the extra power when towing.
Don't use it in Jeep Wrangler, Grand Cherokee, Gladiator, etc. - not sure if any of their other engines are ok with it.

This is a log from a 2021 WK2 we had - and one reason I suggest they were either "planning on it" or these share certain aspects with other FCA vehicles that DO run E85 - if any exist.
Check these lines and setting possibilities -

Low Ethanol PWR Enrich Flag: No
Low Ethanol Therm Management Flag: No
Ethanol Gas For Sure: No
Ethanol Mode: No
Ethanol - 0% Blend Direction: No
Ethanol - 85% Blend Direction: No
Ethanol - Open Loop Fuelling: No
Ethanol Fine Tune Complete Previous: No
Ethanol Fuel Volume Changed: No
Ethanol Low Fuel: No
Ethanol Trigger On Fuel Volume Fault: No
Ethanol Trigger During Learn: No
Ethanol Learn: Disabled
Ethanol Course Update Ready to Learn: No
Ethanol Course Update: Not completed
Ethanol Fine Tune: Not completed

Next question, how do you get more power but lower MPG?

 

[sharpsicle]

Next question, how do you get more power but lower MPG?

The A/F mix is different. Which is why flex fuel vehicles need to switch tunes based on the fuel type used.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Next question, how do you get more power but lower MPG?

Ethanol contains fewer BTUs, lower calories if you wish.
Because it's high octane the engine can run harder, more timing, run valve timing to bleed off less compression pressure and not detonate or ping.
You can run very high compression with ethanol.
Detonation is a product of heat and pressure - since ethanol runs cooler, there's less chamber heat, and because it resists self-ignition (higher octane) it can run higher compression and more timing so you end up with more power.
But the lower energy content means lower mpg.

 

[Alpine Warthog]

Ethanol contains fewer BTUs, lower calories if you wish.
Because it's high octane the engine can run harder, more timing, run valve timing to bleed off less compression pressure and not detonate or ping.
You can run very high compression with ethanol.
Detonation is a product of heat and pressure - since ethanol runs cooler, there's less chamber heat, and because it resists self-ignition (higher octane) it can run higher compression and more timing so you end up with more power.
But the lower energy content means lower mpg.

Hmmm, I gotta check my RV to see if it can run E-85.....

edit: Not a good idea for an '07 Ford V-10.

 

[Pauliboy]

Yeah, while I also feel the 3.6 is underpowered (IF you have mods, like many of us do), you really can't squeeze more unless you add a turbo. As someone who has had and been forced to replace turbos in pretty much every car I've had, this was the first vehicle I've owned since the 90's without one. And one of the 3 major appeals to me about this engine.

Turbos will fail. Tomorrow, next week ...2 years from now when you're 1000 miles from home--the only thing you know is that there is a hidden countdown on when.

It's a trade off. Naturally-aspirated, theoretically more reliable, underpowered and inefficient or, turbo-powered ring every ounce out of the current engine and wait for it to 'splode. *shrugs*

I know a guy who's done 80,000kms so far with his Magnuson SC fitted and hasn't missed a beat.

 

[mike921921]

Could you elaborate beyond this? Did it solve for any issues such as lack of power or did you just do it to get a little more pep? Further, I noticed a wee little better performance using a thak of 93 followed by one of 87 and so forth. I run each tank down to 1/2, then refill. Hoping the resultant is somewhere below the "Knock zone" and around 89 on average...Thoughts?

Just wanted to improve acceleration, which it has. Considered a SC, but this is good enough for now.

 

[Huhnowwhat]

Coming from a naive standpoint here. But how hard would it be to put something like the Megasquirt 3 pro universal ECU in?

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