Track-Lok and Selec-Trac

[Uparms]

Grand Cherokee is not an option, I need a pickup. I'm driving everyday my 1999 TJ manual, and have no complains
But vehicle which costs 50K MUST be at least somewhat sophisticated.

Or buy a 42K Sport or S with a Max tow? Have fun, we all have diff priorities.

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[PyrPatriot]

Only downside would be that little delay in actuation but I think for my needs that could be tolerated.

I noticed I didn't crawl forward when I was 2-wheeling/tettering, I went forward rather quickly for my liking. But, it wasn't bad, and it kept me from getting stuck. Lockers still were not worth the price tag of the Rubicon nor the loss in payload/towing, but I wonder if/when I'll get into a situation where I'll actually use lockers.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The JT and JL Rubicon have the same M210/220 axles and the ones that fit the other-than-Rubicon models won't work. Those were a hold-over from the JK because the carrier is the same and nothing new has come out for the JL.

According to the parts listing for these - 220 and 210 are the ring gear size - any Gladiator gear set will fit any Gladiator for 2020

When I look up gears for Gladiator - they make no distinction between levels.
All Gladiators have the new Dana AdvanTEK axles.
I've found other sites that show the same gears for any of them.

You can put pretty much any gears on any JT carrier for 2020, no matter of level.
Maybe as far as limited slip components, yeah, but the carriers are different in that Wrangler you were stuck swapping carriers if you wanted deeper gears, not JT.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The Sport S Max Tow uses the oversized Dana 40s from the Rube so should work, right?

Only the width - meaning they won't have the electric lockers. But they are indeed .75" longer axles each side so a total of 1.5" wider axles. That's it, otherwise the same as the others.

 

[WXman]

Doesn't the TracLok diff operate similarly to the VariLok diff? I thought they were both hydraulic clutch pack designs.

Trac-Lok uses clutches, yes, but it's only relying on spring pressure. With Vari-Lok you've got hydraulic force generated by what Dana called a "gerotor" and that force can add variable pressure to the clutches from 0-100%. It can function as an open diff, clutch-slipped diff, or fully locked diff depending on the situation. It was a really big deal in the WJ models when they debuted back in 1998. I remember reading about it in magazines. The even cooler thing was they did it in both front and rear, which made a huge difference.

By contrast a regular Trac-Lok can't fully lock, and it's only used in the rear, so it tends to suck off road when the going gets tough and it also sucks on road when the going gets tough for the reasons I mentioned above in post #36.

The only time I've ever seen a Trac-Lok be useful is when driving through a wet field or situation where the soil is very soft and you just need that little bit of extra help, or perhaps while retrieving a boat from a wet, steep boat ramp. I personally don't like it in icy road conditions.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

A lot of experience here in Iowa with LSDs -
If both rear wheels are on ice, they aren't good to have, but if one is on ice, they help.
They are good in sand, mud, snow, wet grass, wet asphalt, etc. (if you want proof of that watch the guys in the burnout area of the track)

but it's only relying on spring pressure

No, it's not. The side gears and carrier gears are beveled gears. They tend to move out due to the axial forces against bevel years. There are tangential and axial forces applied. The axial forces shove the side gears against the clutch pack.
So it's not just the spring pressure but it's also the force of the carrier (spider) gears shoving the side or axle gears out against the clutch pack. Since the tire that has traction will be resisting the turning force, the forces against the gear on that axle will be high - that clutch pack will be locked so the carrier will act as one with the axle with the traction.
It's a common misconception that it's all spring pressure.
When building a limited slip differential YES, you do test for the break-away torque required as a basic "is it working" test but that's not taking into account the drive force against those side gears packing hard against the clutch pack.
Since that force isn't all that great it has almost no impact on steering in curves or corners (in other words, it won't impact over-steer, etc.) It's only when there's a fair amount of difference of speed and force against each side or axle gear that these really have much impact.

I also have an article from years ago where they literally tested limited slip differentials on different surfaces, including both wheels on ice........... it was interesting because they still concluded it was good to have and the cases of them being a negative weren't that often - exception both wheels on slick ice (warm ice compared to cold ice)

 

[LostWoods]

According to the parts listing for these - 220 and 210 are the ring gear size - any Gladiator gear set will fit any Gladiator for 2020

When I look up gears for Gladiator - they make no distinction between levels.
All Gladiators have the new Dana AdvanTEK axles.
I've found other sites that show the same gears for any of them.

You can put pretty much any gears on any JT carrier for 2020, no matter of level.
Maybe as far as limited slip components, yeah, but the carriers are different in that Wrangler you were stuck swapping carriers if you wanted deeper gears, not JT.

But we're not talking gears here, we're talking locker/LSD carriers. Nobody makes anything aftermarket other than ARB so your options are clutch LSD or ARB air locker. OX said they were working on their locker but no word when that's coming out. SEMA this year maybe?

Also, the Wrangler D44 is the same axle set as the JTR and Max Tow axles so it doesn't have the same carrier issue like older D44 axles do.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

But we're not talking gears here, we're talking locker/LSD carriers. Nobody makes anything aftermarket other than ARB so your options are clutch LSD or ARB air locker. OX said they were working on their locker but no word when that's coming out. SEMA this year maybe?

Also, the Wrangler D44 is the same axle set as the JTR and Max Tow axles so it doesn't have the same carrier issue like older D44 axles do.

Everyone seems to be behind in engineer and release dates this year. The Grand Cherokee, parts, a lot of things are behind, so if they say soon, we just have to be patient and know "they're problably working on it". You know there will be demand and that's what drives this stuff. Heck, I've talked to two dealers who have told me they are not only having trouble getting vehicles at times, but parts as well (not talking anything related to TSBs - parts in general) Both said "we can't get the vehicles we want" and both said "products are on back order". So if there's engineering to do - that will put it back even farther.

 

[RedTRex]

Trac-Lok uses clutches, yes, but it's only relying on spring pressure. With Vari-Lok you've got hydraulic force generated by what Dana called a "gerotor" and that force can add variable pressure to the clutches from 0-100%. It can function as an open diff, clutch-slipped diff, or fully locked diff depending on the situation. It was a really big deal in the WJ models when they debuted back in 1998. I remember reading about it in magazines. The even cooler thing was they did it in both front and rear, which made a huge difference.

By contrast a regular Trac-Lok can't fully lock, and it's only used in the rear, so it tends to suck off road when the going gets tough and it also sucks on road when the going gets tough for the reasons I mentioned above in post #36.

The only time I've ever seen a Trac-Lok be useful is when driving through a wet field or situation where the soil is very soft and you just need that little bit of extra help, or perhaps while retrieving a boat from a wet, steep boat ramp. I personally don't like it in icy road conditions.

That's why I recommended the Tru-trac for the money it's tough to beat.

 

[RedTRex]

That is what I've been wanting to do since I got mine last July, but I can't seem to find one that is made for our Gladiators. Do you know a product number or a link?

Wish i did, hopefully soon

 

[redrider]

So for now, if you want a Tru-trac in anything other than a Rube, a complete axel swap cobbed together with a properly sized diff is the only option?

 

[RedTRex]

So for now, if you want a Tru-trac in anything other than a Rube, a complete axel swap cobbed together with a properly sized diff is the only option?

They don't have Tru-trac they have electrically operated lockers

ARB air operated lockers are available

 

[LostWoods]

So for now, if you want a Tru-trac in anything other than a Rube, a complete axel swap cobbed together with a properly sized diff is the only option?

If you want a TrueTrac in any JT you need to swap an axle for something that's not an AdvanTek M210/M220 axle.

 

[Arterius2]

Trac-Lok uses clutches, yes, but it's only relying on spring pressure. With Vari-Lok you've got hydraulic force generated by what Dana called a "gerotor" and that force can add variable pressure to the clutches from 0-100%. It can function as an open diff, clutch-slipped diff, or fully locked diff depending on the situation. It was a really big deal in the WJ models when they debuted back in 1998. I remember reading about it in magazines. The even cooler thing was they did it in both front and rear, which made a huge difference.

By contrast a regular Trac-Lok can't fully lock, and it's only used in the rear, so it tends to suck off road when the going gets tough and it also sucks on road when the going gets tough for the reasons I mentioned above in post #36.

The only time I've ever seen a Trac-Lok be useful is when driving through a wet field or situation where the soil is very soft and you just need that little bit of extra help, or perhaps while retrieving a boat from a wet, steep boat ramp. I personally don't like it in icy road conditions.

Wrong! There are no springs in the current generation of the LSD. Just lift the LSD rear diff up and spin the tires, the opposing tire does not spin, which means it's not spring loaded.

 

[WXman]

Wrong! There are no springs in the current generation of the LSD. Just lift the LSD rear diff up and spin the tires, the opposing tire does not spin, which means it's not spring loaded.

If it's not spring loaded, then how does the necessary pressure to operate the clutch packs get generated?

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