We’re screwed! [ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS. MEMBERS BANNED]

[AstroZombie]

It's actually worse than that. Your dealer is holding back on their dealer discount.

i'll take this all day! I think mine stickered for 56k in 21 maybe even more

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[Osteodoc08]

Glad I bought my 2020 JT Mojave with just about every option available at the time. Low interest rates, good discount, not near the inflated prices we’re seeing now. It’s almost paid off and enjoying it every smile at a time with me and my 2 boys.
These are “lifestyle vehicles”. Much better daily drivers out there, IMHO.

 

[Deleted member 57233]

Who knows what the value will be this time next year or five or ten years down the road?

I can guarantee it will be less than it is now. That's how cars work lol

 

[CampThree]

Back in 1993 I bought a new Silverado for around 17K, 31 years later I still have it so trade in and depreciation are irrelevant at this point. Never understood how anyone could buy a new car off the lot and sell or trade it a few years later and expect to not take it in the shorts somehow.

 

[Pakdoc]

I've been watching Ray and Zach on YT and there was a BIG used car reduction just a couple days ago. I'm waiting till next year to buy an additional Gladiator.

 

[Wolf Island Diver]

Jeep Pricing in 4 Acts:
Act 1: Covid supply chains, shortages, etc.
Act 2: Economy restart, pent up demand + stimulus, inflation and corporate price gouging. https://fortune.com/europe/2023/12/08/greedflation-study/
Act 3 (now) : High interest rates, market corrections
Act 4 (Next Year) Jerome Powell predicts Fed rate reductions. I’m curious what this will mean. Will demand come back, will prices start going back up? Will these be significant rate cuts or a few 1/4 point deals. We could be moving towards lower bound territory again. Personally 2% target rate is a historically low target rate and a bit radical. At 3.1% and moving south, we may see an actual Fed course correction.

We’ve already seen strong disinflation (reduction in the rate of inflation). It’s currently at 3.1% which is historically low. What confuses people is that prices remain high. That’s because a reduction in prices generally is actually deflation which is really bad. Lower inflation means prices go up more slowly. They don’t go down. The wild card is that a lot of the prices weren’t inflation. They were straight up price gouging. When the dust settles I wonder if economists will come to see some of the inflation rate as a function of gouging, rather than gouging + inflation equaling prices. Then the epistemological question becomes, what is inflation? Is it only rising prices as a function of natural causes or just any general increase in the price of goods minus food, fuel, housing. Of course in those 3 areas, usually too volatile to be included in inflation measurements, we also saw widespread price gouging.

I have some thoughts on all of this:

1. I think we may actually see more prices come down, as opposed to simply slowing their rise, essentially violating the disinflation/deflation conventional wisdom. Fundamentally this is because the prices were artificial and we are now in a correction. We already are, case in point: Jeeps which had reached comical levels of pricing seeing prices slashed. Not a part of core inflation, but I just paid less for diesel than I’ve ever paid to fill up my Jeep. Usually by this time of the year, I’d be well into the home heating fuel diesel price surge. Meanwhile some things, processed meat, for example, remain stubbornly high, although I don’t know where these people were getting their $100 turkeys. I paid $36 for a 18lb turkey last month and $25 for the same size bird 2 days ago.

2. This gouging factor wasn’t a U.S. low regulatory environment problem. “Inflation” everywhere else was worse and price gouging in heavily regulated Europe seems to be rampant issue as well. Of course corporations are global at this point so maybe that’s not surprising and market consolidation has happened everywhere. Fewer players in the market, means less competition, means higher prices.

3. There needs to be a consumer revolt over all of this or at least a reckoning. Businesses in a free society are free to charge whatever they want and let the invisible hand of “dollar votes” decide the state of things. But when businesses across a sector and in fact every sector raise prices together and blame it on some external boogie man, like the Inflation Monster, it’s price fixing and fraud. The CEOs of these companies need to be called to the carpet to answer for this.

4. Unfortunately the place to do that is the U.S. Congress. But members of congress benefit directly though all of their financial entanglements and corporate campaign largesse. Maybe we need something like a Consumer Union. No, not Consumer Report’s parent organization, but organized consumers with the power to put actual pressure on some of these companies. If corporations are going to collude against consumers, consumers should collude against corporations.

In some cases that’s passively what’s happened. Stelantis essentially got so greedy they priced Jeeps out of the market so people stopped buying them and they had to course correct. Personally, I’d rather set the threshold for collective consumer action quite a bit lower than $75k for a Gladiator. We’ve gotten way too used to just accepting what bullshit falls on us, whether from governments, our employers, financial institutions or the businesses we have to get everything from. We clearly cant rely on elected officials or regulators to lift a finger.

 

[Dickster]

I traded in a truck to get my 2021 rubi, It had a rock crawler lift on it already. My trade in they gave me $45k and the the JT was $50k, I knew I could find a better deal but the trade in made me pull the trigger. I know it would be hard to even get $45k for it now and that's with a lot of extras. I didn't buy my jeep to hold value, I got it to put a smile on My face and have fun.

 

[Minty JL]

I will always disagree with this. IMO that is said from. Perspective of people who want things for free. I sold my 7.3 to account for ALL
the work and tens of thousands of dollars I put into it. Buyers were very happy to have a ready to go fully built truck in excellent condition.

On a personal sale this might be true

The OP was discussing a "trade" I have worked in and out of the automotive industry for nearly 30 years........dealers don't GAF with what you did to a vehicle.....because if its modified....its going to auction.

 

[JTGuy]

Big deal,, I paid $60K plus T&L then put $20K into it in mods. More on the way. I drive it and enjoy it. It's cool. I'll keep it and when it over I'll sell it for what I can get. If you can't pay then you can't play. Nothing is new about that. Just got to suck it up buttercup. The way things were in the past don't matter.

 

[GWolgamott]

I have a long commute, drive a lot on trips, and carry gap insurance for when I owe on a car loan.

Because I really don't expect to get squat for a trade in, insurance claim (Due to the miles I put on a vehicle every year.) or selling it. Now it has kept far more of it's value then any other vehicle I've had, will say that, as I do check periodically just out of curiosity.

But anything extra I put on there will come off if I sell it or wreck it. Otherwise I view those as loses right out the door or if I take it off maybe get some of it back if I piece it out.

I think we really need to think of us modding our vehicles (or even buying any new vehicles really.) like going to a casino. There is no sense getting upset we lost money.

 

[Wolf Island Diver]

On a personal sale this might be true

The OP was discussing a "trade" I have worked in and out of the automotive industry for nearly 30 years........dealers don't GAF with what you did to a vehicle.....because if its modified....its going to auction.

They may stick it on their lot to bring people in but generally this is exactly right. They even offered to take all my stuff off of mine and transfer it to a new Jeep when they were harassing me about trading it in every time I brought it in for service. Their trade in was pure KBB for a stock truck. They said they’d just move the lift, winch, tires, racks and all. They weren’t interested in a built Jeep. They were interested in selling me a new one.

When people see a built Jeep on a lot. It’s almost always shit they cobbled together to draw dudes in. Like a Sport on 40s with a no name bumper and some graphics. I’ve never seen a well built Jeep sitting at a dealership unless it was an AEV dealer, etc.

 

[Yman70]

Traded in my 2020 Sport for a 2023 Rubicon in Sept for $50K. Got $36k for the 2020 with 3.5" lift, 5.13's, aftermarket front bumper with winch.

 

[DirkG]

On the "we're screwed" front; it's not so much that we're screwed, but we're forced to be patient. And as Jeep owners, we need to play the game and ride this out. The response below is a good indicator.

Glad I bought my 2020 JT Mojave with just about every option available at the time.

Perfect time to buy a Mojave - the JT was new and Jeep was super aggressive to get them on the road. The market was active and thriving.

Low interest rates, good discount, not near the inflated prices we’re seeing now.

Interest rates drive so much in our economy that the average person has no idea the up and downstream effects. Inflation is the driver; when inflation occurs, the Fed raises the interest rates to slow the economy and lessen pressure on prices. But a slow economy means sellers keep prices high to squeeze as much profit as possible.

We have control over much of this. Our votes. But just as effective (on a daily basis) is our consumer habits. We need to show patience.

Here in CA, on 09/28/23, Governor Newsom signed AB No. 1228 into law which meant the minimum wage for fast food workers is $20/hour. Yes, workers at McDonalds are making more than your average bookkeeper or entry mechanic. The answer? Have some spaghetti at home instead of a Big Mac.

It’s almost paid off and enjoying it every smile at a time with me and my 2 boys.

Great position to be in. Enjoy it for many, many years. Especially for memories with your boys.

These are “lifestyle vehicles”. Much better daily drivers out there, IMHO.

100%. I got a Honda Passport for daily runs. The trick for Jeep is that lifestyle vehicles sell in much smaller numbers. The "Wrangler with a bed" aspect is not translating to sales any longer. Buyers are either going Wrangler or opting for a full-size. I can't say I blame them TBH.

Bottom line: hold onto your Gladiators boys and girls. In fact, hold onto as much as you can in this depressed market. Eat at home. Maybe vacation to Orlando instead of Rome this year. We have a lot of power in this economic game.

Disclosure: I was an Economics undergrad and well, I can't turn it off. It's a sickness. Ha.

 

[wvyankee2]

Bought my 2020 JT Overland in March 2020 for $41K. Sticker was $44K. Added $5K in Lift, Tires, Gears, Misc... and sold in June 2021 for $48K. Just bought my 23 JTR $63K sticker for $50K. Timing has been everything in this insane market. If you have an upside down JT right now, you may not have what you want. But you have what you need. Keep it and make it better for less than new.

 

[obrianmcc]

Cars are not investments, expect to loose big if you buy and flip

100% ... just because the market has been stupid that last two years doesn't make it the norm, but the exception. If you chose to purchase within that time you need to be able to sleep at night knowing that you are probably upside down. I paid $43k in 20' ... so far have dumped in another $15k. Do I expect to regain any of that at resale ... absolutely not! If you are into investments ... stop buying vehicles.

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