Is selec track (or full time 4WD) inherently bad or weaker?

[NachoRuby]

but I can’t imagine the added concern of when am I doing damage to my drivetrain by being in 4H, and stopping/slowing down to disengage.

You don't have to stop anymore. On the new ones, jk and newer, you can shift while moving. So you're not going to break/damage anything.

Last thing I will say… It is a real safety issue to have to pull out from an icy/snowy surface and then deal with the middle section that may be full of ice before passing onto a well-maintained roads as traffic is coming both ways

I shift it into 4wd before pulling out and leave it in 4WD until (if) I hit clear pavement. It's not going to break anything doing so, and all JTs can shift into/out of 4wd in motion. No safety issue, but definitely a convenience issue, and I'm jealous of your selec-trac, but the regular transfer case is fully capable of shifting in motion, so it isn't dangerous, you just have to know when to use it.

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[dcmdon]

Having a dedicated winter tire set will defeat any AWD or 4WD system. I used to drive a RWD BMW in a hilly city but I had real winter tires. No issues at all.
The Willys with the LSD is nice in snow. Only issue sometimes is starting from a dead stop on an incline when in 2WD but it will go even then. If I had real winters on instead of MT tires, there would be very little need for 4WD for urban/sub-urban driving

I agree completely. Tires are the most important thing you can do.
I get a kick out of the guys on MT tires who say their jeep is great in the snow. They honestly don't know what good is.

4WD doesn't help you turn or stop. Its all about the tires.

My wife's Miata was a ball in the snow with a set of Michelin snows on it.
My old Subaru STi was terrifying in the snow with summer tires and a beast with snows.

With that said, a RWD pickup with snows is nowhere near as good as an AWD pickup with snows.

The combination of snow tires and AWD with open diffs which allows stability and traction control to function their best, is as good as it gets in the snow.

 

[NachoRuby]

Having a dedicated winter tire set will defeat any AWD or 4WD system. I used to drive a RWD BMW in a hilly city but I had real winter tires. No issues at all.
The Willys with the LSD is nice in snow. Only issue sometimes is starting from a dead stop on an incline when in 2WD but it will go even then. If I had real winters on instead of MT tires, there would be very little need for 4WD for urban/sub-urban driving

Yeah, but they don't make many dedicated winter tires in the stock Rubicon/Mojave size, and none in my aftermarket size. Of the two stock size (285/70/17) winter tires I see on tire rack, one is indefinitely out of stock and the other has 1 tire available.

 

[dcmdon]

You don't have to stop anymore. On the new ones, jk and newer, you can shift while moving. So you're not going to break/damage anything.


I shift it into 4wd before pulling out and leave it in 4WD until (if) I hit clear pavement. It's not going to break anything doing so, and all JTs can shift into/out of 4wd in motion. No safety issue, but definitely a convenience issue, and I'm jealous of your selec-trac, but the regular transfer case is fully capable of shifting in motion, so it isn't dangerous, you just have to know when to use it.

You just have to REMEMBER to use it. ha.

But again remember that if you drive the least big aggressively, 4A can be useful in wet conditions also.

 

[NachoRuby]

You just have to REMEMBER to use it. ha.

But again remember that if you drive the least big aggressively, 4A can be useful in wet conditions also.

That's where I want it the most. I see snow as a non-issue with the part time system, even coming from Subarus like you, and living in an area where it snows. But man, do I want full-time or AWD when it rains heavy.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

4WD doesn't help you turn

It can - as I posted elsewhere. Because the front wheels can PULL you around instead of being shoved around without control. I've applied just a bit of gas to get the front wheels to pull and made it around corners I'd have otherwise slid around.
As long as you have decent tires, of course. I've used 4 wheel drive to make corners no 2 wheel drive vehicle could make.
I'll take one of our Grand Cherokees against any 2 wheel driver car with any tires.

 

[dcmdon]

It can - as I posted elsewhere. Because the front wheels can PULL you around instead of being shoved around without control. I've applied just a bit of gas to get the front wheels to pull and made it around corners I'd have otherwise slid around.
As long as you have decent tires, of course. I've used 4 wheel drive to make corners no 2 wheel drive vehicle could make.
I'll take one of our Grand Cherokees against any 2 wheel driver car with any tires.

You are talking about a very specific situation. Generally 4WD or AWD doesn't help you turn.

In the situation you are talking about also front wheel drive would give much of the benefit of 4wd and the vast majority of vehicles on the road that aren't AWD are FWD these days. Though I realize we are speaking about jeeps here.

Either way. A front wheel drive with snows will turn and stop better than a AWD or 4wd vehicle that doesn't have snows.

 

[Savage1]

Thanks for the replies and info. I had pretty much written the AWD off until I read how much people like it or wish they had it.
Just makes no sense at all why it’s not put on more “lot” vehicles. I just really don’t want to wait on the order time but I’ll think about it a bit.
I found a new Mojave about 3 hours away with it so we’ll see how the dealer responds.

 

[MrKnowitall]

I agree on the comments about 4WH in snow, but when someone in my family (who doesn’t understand how 4WD could affect handling on dry pavement) is driving my JT in intermittent inclement weather, I’m glad I can know they are using the AWD function

To me it isn't understanding, its about how much damn work it is in constantly changing conditions, usually not during, but after a weather event. Having had a stack of part time (S10, Bronco, Sidekick, JKU) and a couple of AWD and auto vehicles- its night and day for convenience. Fuel economy does take a hit with the Auto mode vs 2wd, but it should be the exact same as 4wd.
What I don't know for sure is if the 4H (or more importantly 4L) setting has a splined coupling of if it simply applies the clutch at max.

 

[Garemlin]

Sele-Trac is the only option I don't have that I wish I had. I chose an in stock Willys with every option I wanted in Nacho without Selec-Trac over a Sting-Gray Sport with Selec-Trac that I special ordered.

I'm honestly surprised there are so few ordered with Selec-Trac. The only time you really see it is on fully spec'd out Mojaves, Rubicons and Overlands.

You will get the naysayers. The one's who call it a nanny. Or that they know how to switch into 4H. Well that's not really what it's for. Selec-Trac shines on wet roads and ever changing roads. From snow to drive pavement in a matter of seconds. Those conditions you set it and forget it. Selec-Trac is by no means meant for off-roading.

 

[jsalbre]

To me it isn't understanding, its about how much damn work it is in constantly changing conditions, usually not during, but after a weather event. Having had a stack of part time (S10, Bronco, Sidekick, JKU) and a couple of AWD and auto vehicles- its night and day for convenience. Fuel economy does take a hit with the Auto mode vs 2wd, but it should be the exact same as 4wd.
What I don't know for sure is if the 4H (or more importantly 4L) setting has a splined coupling of if it simply applies the clutch at max.

There is no splined coupling, just 100% clutch engagement for 4Hi and 4Lo.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Thanks for the replies and info. I had pretty much written the AWD off until I read how much people like it or wish they had it.
Just makes no sense at all why it’s not put on more “lot” vehicles. I just really don’t want to wait on the order time but I’ll think about it a bit.
I found a new Mojave about 3 hours away with it so we’ll see how the dealer responds.

COST.
Monthly payment threshold. I'd have jumped on ir. It is not weaker nor is it new technology by any stretch and is not weaker.

 

[jac04]

Just makes no sense at all why it’s not put on more “lot” vehicles.

Agreed, I don't understand it either. There are a lot of people out there who like the idea of owning a JT or JL, but have no idea that they have standard part-time 4wd systems that require some knowledge and driver interaction to be used correctly. The Selec-Trac system makes the JT more 'regular people' friendly, and differentiates it from other offerings. IMO, Jeep should be promoting the heck out of Selec-Trac.

If Selec-Trac wasn't available, I never would have bought my Mojave as my daily driver vehicle here in New England. But, I'm coming from a long line of AWD cars (WRX wagon, 2 WRX sedans, 5MT Legacy wagon, VW Golf R, Audi Allroad ). I have a 2-door JKR as a toy, and I dread driving it on damp/wet roads, although my KM2s are partly to blame for that.

 

[869 KPH]

Thanks for the replies and info. I had pretty much written the AWD off until I read how much people like it or wish they had it.
Just makes no sense at all why it’s not put on more “lot” vehicles. I just really don’t want to wait on the order time but I’ll think about it a bit.
I found a new Mojave about 3 hours away with it so we’ll see how the dealer responds.

Not having 4A was a deal-breaker for me when shopping for used/existing JTs. People in the classifieds here and elsewhere love to say they have every option, but I'll tell you I never found a used one with 4A.

I honestly don't know how much I'll use it, but my wife appreciates the safety theater AWD provides in our other car - so I want no excuses to not use the JT!

 

[MrKnowitall]

There is no splined coupling, just 100% clutch engagement for 4Hi and 4Lo.

That's what I suspected. Probably a non-issue for all but those who plan on using the full capabilities of a Rubicon.

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