Diesel cooling options and ideas

[jsalbre]

The bottom line for me here, is that this is an engineering problem that is beyond the scope of what 99% of people have the means to solve properly. Further, I believe it is something that needs to be addressed with the OEM, as the vehicle is clearly not fulfilling on the advertised specifications.

Jeep is highly unlikely to do anything about this. They advertise it to be able to tow a certain weight under SAE J2807 standards, which only requires a speed of 40 MPH up the 11 mile Davis Dame grade at 100*. If it can do that then its performing to the advertised standard. I'd be willing to bet that if anyone here who's having problems attempted the same sections they've been doing and stayed at 40 MPH they wouldn't see any overheating or "derating" (with the exception of that guy towing 11k pounds with his Gladiator, he's crazy).

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[Hondo1]

70mph flat and anywhere between 50 and 25 over the passes. Keep in mind these passes are on hwy 285 and hwy 50 not I-70. In effect I was able to go as fast as I felt comfortable going through the twisties. Just made it over Red Mountain same story.
Turning on the fan with the Tazer. The fan is effective at dropping temps at all speeds, even on the interstate. Roughly 10-15* on coolant, I still believe an aftermarket oil cooler is needed.

 

[yolo]

Jeep is highly unlikely to do anything about this. They advertise it to be able to tow a certain weight under SAE J2807 standards, which only requires a speed of 40 MPH up the 11 mile Davis Dame grade at 100*. If it can do that then its performing to the advertised standard. I'd be willing to bet that if anyone here who's having problems attempted the same sections they've been doing and stayed at 40 MPH they wouldn't see any overheating or "derating" (with the exception of that guy towing 11k pounds with his Gladiator, he's crazy).

Squeaky wheel gets the grease as they say. They definitely will not do anything about it if folks do not complain.

And hopefully, Jeep is setting its goals a bit higher than the bare minimum.

 

[jsalbre]

Squeaky wheel gets the grease as they say. They definitely will not do anything about it if folks do not complain.

And hopefully, Jeep is setting its goals a bit higher than the bare minimum.

No manufacturer is going to go above the standard. If they build a truck that can perform higher then they'll just raise the towing capacity until it hits the limit. That's the entire point of the standard. If they advertised a capacity that isn't at the vehicles true max limit then they'd just be handicapping themselves against competitors.

If you read the articles that have been linked in this and other threads on the topic of towing you'll see that Jeep wrung every possible bit out of the capability of the Gladiator within the confines of the Wrangler front end design.

 

[yolo]

No manufacturer is going to go above the standard. If they build a truck that can perform higher then they'll just raise the towing capacity until it hits the limit. That's the entire point of the standard. If they advertised a capacity that isn't at the vehicles true max limit then they'd just be handicapping themselves against competitors.

If you read the articles that have been linked in this and other threads on the topic of towing you'll see that Jeep wrung every possible bit out of the capability of the Gladiator within the confines of the Wrangler front end design.

Oh ok, got it. Every truck owner is doing 40mph up hills when towing.

 

[jeepin48]

2024 there will likely be a front end update and the rest of the power for the diesel (like the ram has), if it survives that long. I am sure it would be a thicker radiator.

There is room to add another radiator in front of the AC condenser. Then route a few smaller 1" lines from the main radiator to new front mount one in parallel so flow can go to either. It would effectively make it thicker. I don't know how the AC would handle it though.

I would still prefer the oil cooler but there are so many issue with tapping into the system safely.

 

[jsalbre]

Oh ok, got it. Every truck owner is doing 40mph up hills when towing.

Now you're taking my words out of context. Most trucks are not cooling limited, the Gladiator is. Most trucks run across other limits (power, braking, handling, etc) first.

However, if you take a brand new Ram 3500 with the 420 HP, 1075 ft-lbs of torque 6.7 Cummins in it, hook up a 37,100 pound (it's towing capacity limit) gooseneck to it, I guarantee you it'll be doing 40 mph up that same hill.

Ever seen a tractor trailer towing 100,000 pounds? He's doing probably 25 up that hill.

You can tow fast, or you can tow heavy. Not both. You may say 5000# isn't heavy, but it is on a truck that's only rated to tow 6000# that's the same as putting 31000# behind that Ram I mentioned above.

One more factor that's been largely left out of this discussion: Jeep recommends a maximum trailer frontal area of 55 sq-ft with the Gladiator Ecodiesel. If you're towing an 8ft wide trailer that's taller that 7ft then you're over that limit. Most of the travel trailers people are pulling are going to be closer to 70-80 sq-ft.

 

[dcmdon]

Oh ok, got it. Every truck owner is doing 40mph up hills when towing.

You are massively oversimplifying.

The SAE standard takes into account:

1) outside air temp
2) steepness of grade
3) trailer frontal area (huge impact on total drag at highway speeds. Usually more than weight)
4) trailer aerodynamic efficiency - this is a measure of the efficiency of the shape. Fontal area is a measure of size.
5) vehicle speed

 

[dcmdon]

While I agree that using the most delta T is ideal, oil coolers have advantages that radiators do not, and routing airflow properly is key to cooling, a horizontal oil cooler on top of the hood? C’mon.. Nobody is doing that, nor should they have to.

So far, the limited testing indicates that even with increased/unaltered airflow directly aimed at the cooling block, temperatures are not significantly changed. Further, that as expected, there is an area of low pressure between mid-hood and the windshield, where the best airflow over the hood is forward of middle.

Relating to your airflow statement, the next logical step would be to confirm flow in/through/around the cooling block. If, as you espoused, the air is hitting the front, but not traveling through, some method of assisting the airflow would be logical. This theory directly relates to my solid surface/fan post a few back. If air is not getting through the cooling block, regardless of how, it will never perform properly.

The bottom line for me here, is that this is an engineering problem that is beyond the scope of what 99% of people have the means to solve properly. Further, I believe it is something that needs to be addressed with the OEM, as the vehicle is clearly not fulfilling on the advertised specifications.

I agree that most people wouldn't put a horizontal oil cooler on the hood. But they could. And it would work.

One other extreme option is to put it in the bed somewhere.

Its not actually a very difficult engineering problem. Its well within the realm of any aftermarket company that actually has engineers on staff.
I'm confident that a 3 pronged approach would solve the problem.
1) seal the space between the grill and the radiators to create a pressure plenum.
2) evacuate air from behind the radiators / engine compartment. Behind the fenders or mid hood are probably low pressure areas. Surely someone must have stuck a jeep in a wind tunnel. Ha. Or CFD.
3) A large oil cooler creatively located.

 

[IDAILYAHKP7]

Jeep is highly unlikely to do anything about this. They advertise it to be able to tow a certain weight under SAE J2807 standards, which only requires a speed of 40 MPH up the 11 mile Davis Dame grade at 100*. If it can do that then its performing to the advertised standard. I'd be willing to bet that if anyone here who's having problems attempted the same sections they've been doing and stayed at 40 MPH they wouldn't see any overheating or "derating"

I think you are right. Jeep runs the test, it passes, the number gets advertised. Simple as that. Truthfully I assumed that the specification would follow a bit closer to what an average user would expect/try to utilize, but that is very subjective I suppose. Having owed several large trucks over the years, I have never been limited from a cooling standpoint, so this is alien to me (and probably a good bit of the buyers.)

 

[jsalbre]

I think you are right. Jeep runs the test, it passes, the number gets advertised. Simple as that. Truthfully I assumed that the specification would follow a bit closer to what an average user would expect/try to utilize, but that is very subjective I suppose. Having owed several large trucks over the years, I have never been limited from a cooling standpoint, so this is alien to me (and probably a good bit of the buyers.)

Totally agreed. I traded in my 2020 Ram 2500 6.4 (gas) for the JT. I had that beast as I spent a year living in and towing a 30' Airstream. I could easily climb all the mountain passes at 75mph without breaking a sweat, but the Airstream only weighed 8800 pounds and the truck was rated for 17000. If you want to tow at the speeds you'd normally drive at unloaded then you really need a vehicle with about double the towing capacity as what you plan to tow. Unfortunately it can be a tough lesson for people that haven't spent time doing a lot of towing, and the dealerships are useless on this.

 

[yolo]

"the J2807 standard requires there be no component failures, along with no “check engine” lights or any other alerts or warnings for the driver. The “cooling system performance” requirement also requires zero part failures, no error codes, no driver warnings of any other kind, and no loss of coolant fluid during the test."

Explains why I did not throw any codes the three times it derated. Name any other type of vehicle that puts you into limp mode without throwing a code or otherwise telling you what's going wrong. Shady.

Anyway, derating sucks. Especially when you are towing 1,500lbs under max climbing the great mountains of Austin, Texas. But, as long as it keeps climbing (hopefully at or above 45mph) I'll be fine. I have a two week trip to western Colorado at the end of August, so we will see how she does. Hopefully it will be a bit cooler by then.

 

[LOGS]

What about the JTs that are derating pulling 1500 lb trailers or hell those who are derating not putting anything at all. There is definitely a problem here.

 

[DeanW66]

What on earth is a farkle?

OT:
Ahhh, somebody who hasn't ventured over to ADVRider before.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=farkle

 

[Saltymedic]

My experience with overheating was going up an 8% mountain pass towing a 4k lb. RV while trying to maintain 65mph (w/37's). I'm pretty sure my foot was on the floor for a minute or two. The temp gauge started ramping up REALLY quick, much faster than I've seen on any other vehicle. Once the needle got 3/4 of the way or so up I started backing down on the go peddle. A couple seconds later the Jeeps temp normalize more rapidly than it had gone up.

Due to the manner in which the engine quickly heated AND cooled, I am assuming the issue to be more related to the THERMOSTAT settings and no so much the entire cooling system itself.

I continued to push the Glad for most of the day, however not as much as the afore mentioned pass, without a single degree change outside the range of normal.

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