First real tow with the manual.....not good

[Zachattack50]

Pulled the 7x14 enclosed this weekend for the first real trip, i.e. 450miles. What a let down. I will start by saying that we did not intend to use the JT as a tow rig, but we have recently bought a sxs and it made sense to use the Jt as it is setup for camping. For all the spec guys, the rack and tent weigh in at 215lbs, the trailer is 2100, and the sxs is 1900. I was also very picking about how much tougue weight I was running. Overall the chassis was very stable and I had no handling qualms, however, the lack of power is astounding. You can maintain 55mph, usually 60, as long as its flat, and I mean like dead flat, any grad and you have your foot buried in 4th, sometimes 3rd and loose speed while ascending. The power in this thing pretty much goes flat from 3100 to 5000 (I tried it everywhere) Before everyone jumps on the fact its lifted with 37's, it is running 5.13 gears, which puts it at an advantage over the factory with 3.73's and small tires. Also has a centerforce clutch now. Like I stated it has no issue getting things moving, or handling the trailer, but maintaining any kind of speed is not possible. Mileage was 8.5mpg. I am going to try my open car hauler to see if that affects anything, but so far for pulling right where the truck is rated for, its a joke. Not that I have plans on trading the manual in, but I may talk to my local dealer and see if I can test drive a auto to see if its capable of pulling the trailer. My guess is it will be like pulling with a eco boost. humming along at 4500rpm, but we will see! I really wish the 392 was an option for these!!!

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[Jaxmax]

The open car trailer will make a difference, probably not enough , but I tow, 24’ camper at 4100 GVWR, probably at perhaps 3700 lbs. and also have towed my 5’x 12’ landscape trailer 5500GVWR with about 3,500 pounds on it with a weight of about 1200 pounds so about 4700lbs. and difference was huge, the wind frontage on trailer is a thing. I am using a 3.6 auto though……Jack

 

[Hootbro]

At max tow rating, lifted truck with a higher CG and towing a trailer I speculate that exceeds the 40 square feet frontal area max, you are asking a lot for that truck and the manual transmission to perform.

 

[abe57]

Also with with the trailer in the pic you are having more roll resistance with the smaller tires and duel wheels .

 

[Medical_Bartender]

Makes sense to me. I have a 2022 Willys Sport MT that's not lifted yet and on stock mud terrains. In Colorado when I take off from a dig up any moderate or greater incline it is S-L-O-W going until I can get up to speed. Wringing it out in 1st and 2nd gear will get me to around 30mph, then 3rd gear looses pull. Hate it. My JK with the 6 speed has much better gearing ratios and more usable power, even on 35s with stock 3.73 gearing.



Still love the Gladiator.

 

[Zachattack50]

For you auto guys, What rpm do you notice when pulling a hill? I have had wind issues with other setups, it doesn't buck wind, or feel like wind resistance. Contemplating the sq footage of the front, I would submit that the frontage is actually reduced by the truck being lifted. I just have a hard time buying that the automatic is that much better, unless your running some ungodly rpms.

 

[AustinL911]

Yea, they aren't spectacular at towing. I've got stock 4.10s in my JTR 6MT on 35" STT Pros and IMO it's inadequate for towing my 7x12 open tandem axle with my SxS on it. I take it down to Tennessee a lot to ride from Ohio and it gets pretty mountainous once I hit Cincinnati. I keep it in 4th 85% of the time unless I'm on level ground for awhile or heading downhill. I also try not to go over 65mph unless I'm going downhill. That said, I averaged 12.8mpg round trip (666miles). I wasn't flogging on it and was cognizant about my approach to hill country; shift to 5/6th down hill, hit 70-75mph, once at the nadir of the hill, I'd shift to 4th and try to maintain speed up the hill (it won't). It would slowly drift down to ~58-60mph by the time I got to the top of the next hill. It's annoying, but it works well enough. If I shift to 3rd, I could usually accelerate up the hill, but then I'm screaming at 5000rpm and getting 4mpg. Not worth IMO.

Your frontal area of that enclosed trailer is killing you at higher speeds. I have an ACT clutch and 5.13s sitting in boxes in my garage waiting to go in, and will also be sticking with the 35s. Personally, if I had any inkling of moving to 37s (I don't), I'd have went with 5.38s. These MTs need all the gear they can get if you have any intentions of towing with them. Just my thoughts...

FYI, my aluminum trailer is right at 1,100lb. SxS with all the crap I've got on it is probably ~1,500. Figure the fiberglass cap is ~250 + all the crap I've got with me. I wouldn't want to tow much more unless I was traveling somewhere that was relatively flat.

 

[Zachattack50]

For sure, I would assume that because the truck is covering 75% of the front of the trailor that the sq footage would be negligent. I really think the 3.6 just doesnt have the sauce to haul it. Thats based off running it in 3rd at 5k rpm and still loosing speed. Not the end of the world, but deffinately not how the manufacturer rates it. I would be happy to just be able to maintain 65mph without issue. You will love the 5.13's, made a huge improvement

Yea, they aren't spectacular at towing. I've got stock 4.10s in my JTR 6MT on 35" STT Pros and IMO it's inadequate for towing my 7x12 open tandem axle with my SxS on it. I take it down to Tennessee a lot to ride from Ohio and it gets pretty mountainous once I hit Cincinnati. I keep it in 4th 85% of the time unless I'm on level ground for awhile or heading downhill. I also try not to go over 65mph unless I'm going downhill. That said, I averaged 12.8mpg round trip (666miles). I wasn't flogging on it and was cognizant about my approach to hill country; shift to 5/6th down hill, hit 70-75mph, once at the nadir of the hill, I'd shift to 4th and try to maintain speed up the hill (it won't). It would slowly drift down to ~58-60mph by the time I got to the top of the next hill. It's annoying, but it works well enough. If I shift to 3rd, I could usually accelerate up the hill, but then I'm screaming at 5000rpm and getting 4mpg. Not worth IMO.

Your frontal area of that enclosed trailer is killing you at higher speeds. I have an ACT clutch and 5.13s sitting in boxes in my garage waiting to go in, and will also be sticking with the 35s. Personally, if I had any inkling of moving to 37s (I don't), I'd have went with 5.38s. These MTs need all the gear they can get if you have any intentions of towing with them. Just my thoughts...

FYI, my aluminum trailer is right at 1,100lb. SxS with all the crap I've got on it is probably ~1,500. Figure the fiberglass cap is ~250 + all the crap I've got with me. I wouldn't want to tow much more unless I was traveling somewhere that was relatively flat.

for us.

 

[Timoleon]

For you auto guys, What rpm do you notice when pulling a hill? I have had wind issues with other setups, it doesn't buck wind, or feel like wind resistance. Contemplating the sq footage of the front, I would submit that the frontage is actually reduced by the truck being lifted. I just have a hard time buying that the automatic is that much better, unless your running some ungodly rpms.

With my trailer (Dutchmen 16 footer, happens to be called a Rubicon at about 5K lbs loaded) I see my JTR loping along on hills at 4500 RPM. Granted mine is an auto tranny (can I say that here?) and I am running OEM Falken tires. Gas mileage is not so great. I got about 7.5 mpg up and back. Altitude transitions were about 1000 feet or so.

I would not want to be doing this for the first time with a manual tranny. I think the key takeaway is that this hits the sweet spot at about 4500 rpm.

 

[ChrisNLA]

With my trailer (Dutchmen 16 footer, happens to be called a Rubicon at about 5K lbs loaded) I see my JTR loping along on hills at 4500 RPM. Granted mine is an auto tranny (can I say that here?) and I am running OEM Falken tires. Gas mileage is not so great. I got about 7.5 mpg up and back. Altitude transitions were about 1000 feet or so.

I would not want to be doing this for the first time with a manual tranny. I think the key takeaway is that this hits the sweet spot at about 4500 rpm.

I think 4400 RPM is where peak torque is on these V6's (all 260 ft lbs, lol). So that would make good sense. The advantage with the auto is having deeper starting gears, and closer gear spacing. Not only can you get moving a little easier, you are more likely to be able to find a gear that works for the speed you want to go. I've only had about 3,000 pounds behind my Sport S (Max Tow) so far and it certainly noticed it, but nothing I wouldn't mind doing again. Granted this is Louisiana. Highest thing we climb most the time is an overpass.

 

[Sandevino]

For comparisons sake, I tow a retired U-Haul 6x12 w/ ramp utility trailer (16' total length) with my '22 Overland diesel. The empty weight of the trailer is 2290# and I usually tip the scales around 5500# fully loaded. I average 17.5mpg towing the trailer a mix of city and highway and my average run is 50 miles. When I tow an enclosed 12' trailer (same U-haul special) I average 16.5 due to the added wind resistance.

 

[Marlinvx]

I towed a dual axle 24'long x8' wide x 7.5' tall interior-height enclosed trailer with 2 RZRs inside from Illinois to central Missouri with zero problems. Max tow with weight distributing hitch, brake controller, and rear airbags. I ran 60-65, but was able to maintain that speed regardless of hills. Auto trans with 35s, stock gearing. (My old gas JT, not my new diesel)

 

[Zachattack50]

That is hard to believe seeing as its the same 3.6!! The manual trans in theory should be better as the parasitic loss is less. I would think the auto 8 speed has a little advantage in gearing selection ( I wish I had a ratio between 3rd and 4th) But I'm still stuck on I couldn't make any progress even running the rpms well into the "sweet spot" I could see if I were stock gearing but, with 5.13's that should offset the difference. I did contemplate having 35's to put on to pull, but we honestly wont pull that often with it. Plus I'm not super comfy with running at 4500 rpm for 4 hrs.

I towed a dual axle 24'long x8' wide x 7.5' tall interior-height enclosed trailer with 2 RZRs inside from Illinois to central Missouri with zero problems. Max tow with weight distributing hitch, brake controller, and rear airbags. I ran 60-65, but was able to maintain that speed regardless of hills. Auto trans with 35s, stock gearing. (My old gas JT, not my new diesel)

 

[Flyboy2109]

Pulled the 7x14 enclosed this weekend for the first real trip, i.e. 450miles. What a let down. I will start by saying that we did not intend to use the JT as a tow rig, but we have recently bought a sxs and it made sense to use the Jt as it is setup for camping. For all the spec guys, the rack and tent weigh in at 215lbs, the trailer is 2100, and the sxs is 1900. I was also very picking about how much tougue weight I was running. Overall the chassis was very stable and I had no handling qualms, however, the lack of power is astounding. You can maintain 55mph, usually 60, as long as its flat, and I mean like dead flat, any grad and you have your foot buried in 4th, sometimes 3rd and loose speed while ascending. The power in this thing pretty much goes flat from 3100 to 5000 (I tried it everywhere) Before everyone jumps on the fact its lifted with 37's, it is running 5.13 gears, which puts it at an advantage over the factory with 3.73's and small tires. Also has a centerforce clutch now. Like I stated it has no issue getting things moving, or handling the trailer, but maintaining any kind of speed is not possible. Mileage was 8.5mpg. I am going to try my open car hauler to see if that affects anything, but so far for pulling right where the truck is rated for, its a joke. Not that I have plans on trading the manual in, but I may talk to my local dealer and see if I can test drive a auto to see if its capable of pulling the trailer. My guess is it will be like pulling with a eco boost. humming along at 4500rpm, but we will see! I really wish the 392 was an option for these!!!

I simply find the gears on my manual after 1-2 are too tall. I can't keep 55 on mild grades uphill in 5th at all on the highway. I also find engine compression braking/holdback on the manual JT stinks. 3rd gear doesn't hold back at all downhill and really, 2nd doesn't either, the revs just run up over 3000 and I have to brake. Downshifting doesn't slow you for an upcoming stop much at all. I bought manual for these features and am disappointed. I get better engine compression holdback from my automatic 2001 Tahoe!

 

[rharr]

With my trailer (Dutchmen 16 footer, happens to be called a Rubicon at about 5K lbs loaded) I see my JTR loping along on hills at 4500 RPM. Granted mine is an auto tranny (can I say that here?) and I am running OEM Falken tires. Gas mileage is not so great. I got about 7.5 mpg up and back. Altitude transitions were about 1000 feet or so.

I would not want to be doing this for the first time with a manual tranny. I think the key takeaway is that this hits the sweet spot at about 4500 rpm.

I think the take away here is, these modern v6 motors are a high rpm motor, you want power you need to make them sing in the upper range. they are not low reving lugger motors.

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